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Harbeth speakers - discussion thread

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Post by WongKN on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:23 pm

Dei.... how come my name suddenly mentioned again ? Laughing

Apogees are ribbons and ribbon-hybrids (meaning ribbon with woofer) so not electrostatic. Having said that, they are similar to electrostatic, etc because they are plannar type speakers and they have a different sound radiation pattern from normal coned speakers (for that matter, horn and transmission line type speakers have slightly different pattern too if I remember correctly).

The amount of room treatment - if any - really depends on how compatible the room is with the system (electronics, speakers, etc). I personally prefer to take it easy on the room treatment because I feel overdose of it will suck away 'energy' from the sound - part of the frequency range. I know the best room treatment devices like RealTraps will be able to narrow down their frequency band very much. But it is still very much like our medical science for e.g., we have been trying to create medicines which are like 'smart-bombs', i.e. the medicine targets an exact, specific area in our body. But how many medicine do not have side-effects ? Side effects simply means the medicine has failed to be extremely specific and is influencing parts of our body outside of what it is supposed to target.

Similarly I do not believe we have developed a room treatment method or tool which is specific enough to be able to treat a specific frequency or frequency range at exactly the way we want. Therefore, just like medicine, there will always be side-effects with any room treatment. In theory the most accurate room treatment device is the helmhotz resonator and they are supposedly used in many recording studio. But as has been pointed out by some people, even in here, even those helmholtz resonators are not 100% effective for all situations.

So in a short and sweet sentence, the question of whether and how much room treatment is needed for a specific situation is simply "IT DEPENDS !" Laughing
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Post by Mikapoh on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:32 pm

Very informative write-up. My bad for misleading them.

Thats good thing to lure moderator to come in. Once he speaks on certain topic (preferably not warnings :-) ) there is something to learn...










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Post by sleme on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:39 pm

ryder wrote:

May I ask which Naim and which Bryston?

Nait 3 with P3. Bryston B60 with both P3 and C7 (with lengthy stint also with BP25/4B combo).

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Post by mrquery on Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:44 pm

hi just gracing to say thanks,

@tycham

i hear you bro... those who got their gears settled in a dedicated / own room should take advantage of this shared knowledge. As for me a decent rented space for my gear (rather myself) will do for now with my first assembled gears left unplayed / untouched somewhere far.

@mikapoh

thank you for the insight, i did not get the signature sound of hl p3 before (due to very limited exposure) but i felt blissful listenning to m30 (also driven by arcam).

@sleme

hey don't quote me on "tizzy sharp highs" (if to use on harbeth) since i haven't encountered one. But if other speakers then theres a lot, i recently encountered one and i don't mind loosing several RM's just to keep it out of my sight. But of course that is my setup and my ears.

BTW, thank you for pointing out that theres a suitable speaker for each room dimension. i have overlooked that and will certainly keep it in mind.

i think the only thing left for me to do is go out and audition Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Post by moderneagle on Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:55 am

Hi WongKN,
I got a question about the use of carpets right in front of the speakers, I just bought one 6ft x 8ft for that purpose but when good olde Sam came he advised to remove it (the flooring is granite and white if that makes a difference) as he said it will also absorb the highs. Now, I see that most if not all of the members photos have got some form of carpeting in their listening area. Just want to ask if that is absolutely necessary to prevent surface deflected waves from reaching the earlobes or again is it room dependent meaning if the area already has too many sound absorbing furnishings will putting a carpet be overkilling it?

Yours, carpet the harbeth? moderneagle

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Post by STC on Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:19 pm

With apologies to WongKN for answering question addressed to you.

Carpet absorbs HF better than LF. Granite hardly absorbs any sound, and I believe the ratio is something like .01 accross the frequency range. I have tried with and without carpet (marble floor) and room measurement using a SPL meter shows a much flatter frequency response for my SHL5. Somehow, Sam didn't comment about the rug in my room. Is he reserving his best advice to a select few? Laughing
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Post by carz on Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:21 pm

>>>I have tried with and without carpet (marble floor) and room measurement using a SPL meter shows a much flatter frequency response for my SHL5

So flatter response with or without carpet ?

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Post by moderneagle on Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:32 pm

Thanks STC. Maybe Sam is a connoisseur of fine rugs and didn't think much of my RM400 one.

Thanks carz, was about to ask the same.

Yours, is flatter good? moderneagle

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Post by STC on Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:40 pm

Mine was much less than RM400. The whole idea of treating room is to have a flat room frequency response. So it should be good but then occasionally I have heard some saying flat frequency response is not necessarily good. I wouldn't know.

Carz, flatter with rug(carpet). Somehow my earlier reply of the same to you is missing.
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Post by WongKN on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:06 pm

Guys,

There is no monopoly and I am hardly anywhere near a 'guru'. So if there is any questions directed to me but if you know the answer, please do go ahead and answer it. I may well learn something new as well !! Very Happy

I think STC answered the question better than I can. I was about to say I myself use a carpet because I want to prevent reflection off the floor which would then interfere with imaging and focus. But I use a thin carpet because I just want to prevent reflection and at the same time want to avoid absorption. In this case, I have been mistaken all the while because I had thought all this time that a carpet would absorb midrange, but STC's test showed that it absorbed high-frequencies instead.

I myself am a believe of flat frequency response from the system in the context of the room. However, I do not deny that when my system produces a bump in the bass, often I find it more exciting to listen to than if it were to be flat response there ! Very Happy
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Post by adrian4454 on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:18 pm

Sorry, mine isnt a Harbeth, but my setup:
On top of my carpet is a regular size table... for midbass enhancement...

Man I love my colorful sound Smile

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Post by Mikapoh on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:27 pm

STC wrote:With apologies to WongKN for answering question addressed to you.

Carpet absorbs HF better than LF. Granite hardly absorbs any sound, and I believe the ratio is something like .01 accross the frequency range. I have tried with and without carpet (marble floor) and room measurement using a SPL meter shows a much flatter frequency response for my SHL5. Somehow, Sam didn't comment about the rug in my room. Is he reserving his best advice to a select few? Laughing

Well, although Sam did not come to my place but judging from my photo to him, he did ask whether they are "thick" or "thin" type. The thicker type will absorbs the mid bass too. I was curious to ask him why last time a piece of plywood found on the floor when his demo shop was at Sea Park, he told that the floor was covered with thick carpet. Therefore a hard surface is to counter the absorption.

I think it is ok that we use carpet of a typical type. At KLIAV show, I'm pretty sure all floors are carpeted and these have not caused all rooms to sound dry (maybe we are too busy to bother them) Smile


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Post by moderneagle on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:46 pm

Thanks Wong, I will experiment more with the carpet you know like do stuff on it etc.. and see if I can elicit better audio response. I do find now that it's kinda "spacey" sounding slightly. Not sure though how much one rug can help to reduce the reflection off the flooring or even if there's much reflection at all at the volumes I listen to (lowish). And I was reading too that if you've got an LCD TV behind the speakers right in the middle, it sucks the centre image and makes it "hollow". How will that affect the sound if the TV is placed very near to the hard brick back wall like 6 inches away? I will be having a listening party of 2 over the weekend and am thinking to rearrange the physical setup to be more in keeping with norms, so as not to embarrass myself in front of the extinguished guests.


Yours, hoping the wife won't sound too much, moderneagle

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Post by WongKN on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:57 pm

Yes, that's what my friends & I believe as well, that with a TV in the middle, it will affect the sound : focus, imaging, even overall sonic balance. Having said that, I know a guy who is forced to play with a huge 60" TV in the middle and though I have not heard his system, friends who have heard it told me the sound is very good ! So again it becomes a 'IT DEPENDS' sort of thing. I do know that normal hifi speakers are not magnetically shielded so if put too near the TV will affect the TV picture and its sound might also be affected.

Hmmmm.... 'do stuff on it (the carpet)' somehow does not sound right. Laughing
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Post by tycham on Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:04 pm

moderneagle wrote:in front of the extinguished guests.



Are you dousing them with beer filled hose?
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Post by moderneagle on Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:22 pm

Haha, semantics bro, you know what I mean..

Need to stock up on Guinness, thanks for reminding me.

Yours, a little alcohol helps, moderneagle

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Post by WongKN on Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:48 pm

I noticed the extinguished word too. But since you wrote that you will be doing 'things' on the carpet, I was thinking you might want to extinguish anything that becomes a bit too 'violent', if you get what I mean..... Laughing
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Post by sleme on Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:20 pm

moderneagle wrote:Haha, semantics bro, you know what I mean..

Need to stock up on Guinness, thanks for reminding me.

Yours, a little alcohol helps, moderneagle

moderneagle... with alcohol no need positioning carpets bla..bla..bla.. Sometimes, dont even need the hifi. Still happy... Very Happy

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Post by moderneagle on Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:32 pm

Haha, you guys, ok it's DIStinguished.

Yours, to err is human, moderneagle

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Post by WongKN on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:13 am

Sorry ya eagle. Make fun of your posting's english. We are all not native english speakers so there will always be 'unusual' words in our posts ! Very Happy
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Post by 123_rocketman on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:15 am

WongKN wrote: ........We are all not native english speakers ....... Very Happy

Harbeth is. Very Happy

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Post by WongKN on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:55 am

Hahahahaha.... but some people here says it has slang whereas other people says it speaks perfect english !! Laughing
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Post by moderneagle on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:57 pm

No worries, btw I've rearranged the furnishings last night with the support of the wife so now the speakers are firing into the length of the living hall. With the carpet in front of it and speakers placed away from back and side Walls similar to pictures I've seen, the sound is much more coherent. Sounds nicer too. But that maybe placebo effect after heaving and grunting for the good part of two hours barking out orders to the wife. Well hope my efforts pay off. We'll know tmrw when the ceiling hits the fan so to speak.

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Post by WongKN on Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:05 pm

Eagle, as long as u enjoy the music, why worry if it is placebo effect or what not ? In the end yr ears n the approval of yr wife are all that matters.
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Post by adrian4454 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:00 pm

Hi moderneagle,
Dont worry so much I believe quite a number of audiophile here dont have his or her own dedicated room... that including me.. So I need to surrender to quite a lot on the placement, cushion trap or whatever the unpleasant looking room treatment. Instead, I play around with the stand, equipment underneath stuffs, and power supply.

Furthermore, furniture rearrangement; new plaster or back walls things can be a very frustrating exercise.. imagine u dont like the end result after building up a coperstone wall.., tear it down? and like u said, after some sweating and heavy lifting, u cant really remember the previous sound already, so an important took place or not, is a guessing.

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Post by moderneagle on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:57 pm

Hey Adrian how doing? Thanks for the heads up. I'm quite satisfied with the sound although the vocals seems a little lower than it should be vertically according to my friend. this could be caused by the speakers now backed against the glass window covered with not too thick curtains. Anyway barring any new purchase of isolation/vibration damping or power related peripherals the location of the system stays until I move house. More or less. Thankfully the system sounds musical for light jazz music (read Kenny G) according to my friend. But I'll try to steal in some heavy rock and dramatic orchestral music once a while when he's not looking. To be honest.

I'll try to stop messing around now and just play me some music naturally if you get my drift.

Yours, still unharmed by poison, moderneagle.

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Post by mugenfoo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:16 am

modeagle, if you want to gain back some "height" in your system, try to avoid rubbery and soft dampening footers and feet.

Go instead for materials that give a good solid coupling between the equipment and whatever you're resting them on. This is of course only true if where you put your equipment is a solid and secure base. Ikea tables and local wooden TV cabinets need not apply here.

If you don't have the space for a dedicated equipment rack, at least try and look for solid slabs such as granite , black-galaxy or similar dense and inert boards to act as a solid base, then you can place your equipment on the board with couplers like Finite Elemente Ceraball/Cerapuc/Cerabase footers, TAOC spikes or similar devices, but try to avoid rubbery stuff like Vibrapods, Isonodes or sorbothane feet.

Cheap tricks that won't break the bank would be to experiment with brass spikes/cones, stainless steel spikes, and even mild-steel/iron spikes and cups to see what your preference is.

But of course, if you have a preference for fat, fuzzy and a tinge of warmth blurry effect to tame an overly bright system, then by all means, go for those rubber/soft based footers.
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Post by mugenfoo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:24 am

BTW, if your harbeth's are on those locally made open-frame stands, you might want to consider getting proper solid & rigid stands to let the Harbeths reach their fullest potential.

I never (nor ever want to) figured out why for years, the usual Harbeth package sold locally is always self-sabo'ed by those wobbly and ringing open frame stands, and equally self-defeating Computer Voltage-Stabiliser devices choking the commonly paired Quad Amps...

Put them on good stands, chuck away any cheapo "Voltage Stabiliser" gizmo, and make sure your equipment are sitting on proper racks or solid foundation base, and you should gain back the missing "height" information. Not to mention greater depth perception and a more vivid and wide soundstage. Basically gain a better 3D sonic holography overall.
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Post by moderneagle on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:19 am

Thanks bro.

Ok let's see:
Solid rack - heavy acrylic 3 layer courtesy of bassraptor. Checked.

Voltage regulator - Not using. Checked.

Open frame Sam stands - still using. Still guilty. (does ATS sells the right height ones btw?)

Isonodes - thrown away. Checked.

Computer power cords - replaced with various audiophile types including Zu, furutech and supra. Checked.

Quad amp - yes guilty too although I'm occasionally using the Leben.

The direct coupling suggestion I'll give it a shot as well as the rigid stands if I can find some. Any other lost Harbeth souls here who've gotten different stands?

Yours, non-conforming Harbeth user on a slippery slope, moderneagle

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Post by zeebee on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:27 am

Moderneagle,

How big is your Harbeth, bro sorry, while I admire the speakers, I never quite do remember their size/dimensions. I do have a spare rigid heavy duty stands available if u want to try out Very Happy, no strings attached. You know where to find me bro.. Thanks


Last edited by zeebee on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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Post by ryder on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:28 am

moderneagle wrote:Thanks bro.
Open frame Sam stands - still using. Still guilty. (does ATS sells the right height ones btw?)

The direct coupling suggestion I'll give it a shot as well as the rigid stands if I can find some. Any other lost Harbeth souls here who've gotten different stands?


I've brought up the topic of speaker stands for the Harbeth not too long ago. I believe there isn't any equivalent stands for the C7s and SHL5s here in Malaysia unless custom-made. If talking about a more rigid stand, there are two options available, the Made in USA Sound Anchor stands and the Skylans from Canada. Only the Skylans are practical, and even that the nearest dealer is in Singapore. ALthough the Skylans received some good comments from Harbeth owners, personally I don't quite fancy the design since it's constructed from MDF and not steel(wood stands may sound a bit dead and lack the liveliness and vibrancy of steel). Nonetheless I would be interested if anyone is able to compare either the Skylans or Sound Anchors to the open-frame stands supplied by our local Harbeth supplier.

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Post by moderneagle on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:52 am

Hey Zeebee the speakers sits on 19 inches tall stands now. The speaker itself is 20 inches high, 10.6 inches wide and 12" deep. U think can?

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Post by adrian4454 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:54 am

Oh.. dont under-estimate the hollow open frame stand.. I once indulged in it too. Undeniable natural musical representation. Though I believe it will be harder to gauge improvement or sound change later when u start tweaking from the source to speaker cable...

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Post by soonthas on Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:02 am

Hi Moderneagle,

If you have stable input ac voltage, you don't need a voltage regulator.

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Post by mugenfoo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:28 am

Modernbirdie, good to know you've at least some decent rigs for your setup. OK, as for the stands, @ryder already pointed some very good 3rd party solutions but they are hard to come by locally.

The local ATS stands are not too bad as well, if you secure & load them correctly. Also, don't worry if the height doesnt match the open frame type. 18~20' stand height is good with some allowance to use a solid base at the bottom as a vibration sink / solid platform for the stand to be placed on. Like a Granite / marble / etc etc base.

Ryder, dont be so quick to write-off MDF just yet. Do you remember the "small controversy" a few months back over someone posting some special sounding board platform and caused the supplier to actually stop selling due to over-popular demand ? Well, that is just a plain MDF board (HDF actually, but similar), but cut, sanded and painted & finished in a way that really made it extremely sought after... Wink
And it wasn't expensive either ... until of course all the popular demand caused a supply-crunch... oh, you know what happened eventually!



adrian4454 wrote:
Oh.. dont under-estimate the hollow open frame stand.. I once indulged in it too. Undeniable natural musical representation. Though I believe it will be harder to gauge improvement or sound change later when u start tweaking from the source to speaker cable...
100% disagree here. These open frame "ringers" actually COLOUR the sound even more further away from "natural musical representation". It just muddies everything up with a wash of sound and blurry focus. Wait till you hear a properly set up Harbeth speaker and abandons all the common popular self-defeating accessories then one will realise what it is really capable of.
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Post by VS126 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:20 am

moderneagle wrote:Maybe Sam is a connoisseur of fine rugs and didn't think much of my RM400 one.

Modern, get the one like Zeebee had. RM20,000 plus hifi carpet.
Maybe Sam will then approve.


Last edited by VS126 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Bite on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:26 am

Mugen,

The blurry sound comes when the speakers start dancing with the music on their stands. So I have been made to understand.

The whole idea of the light frame, so I am told, it is to drain/transmit mechanical vibrations away from the speakers into the vibration sink fastest possible. If one subscribes to this then the open/light frames may well serve that purpose versus say one made of MDF. I havent compared any other so cant really comment, which better.

What do you mean by ringing and how does that cause a deterioration/colouration of the sound?

Also what stands do you think would suit the Harbies well?

Look forward to your views.

rgs



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Post by VS126 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:33 am

mugenfoo wrote:Modernbirdie, good to know you've at least some decent rigs for your setup. OK, as for the stands, @ryder already pointed some very good 3rd party solutions but they are hard to come by locally.

The local ATS stands are not too bad as well, if you secure & load them correctly. Also, don't worry if the height doesnt match the open frame type. 18~20' stand height is good with some allowance to use a solid base at the bottom as a vibration sink / solid platform for the stand to be placed on. Like a Granite / marble / etc etc base.

Ryder, dont be so quick to write-off MDF just yet. Do you remember the "small controversy" a few months back over someone posting some special sounding board platform and caused the supplier to actually stop selling due to over-popular demand ? Well, that is just a plain MDF board (HDF actually, but similar), but cut, sanded and painted & finished in a way that really made it extremely sought after... Wink
And it wasn't expensive either ... until of course all the popular demand caused a supply-crunch... oh, you know what happened eventually!



adrian4454 wrote:
Oh.. dont under-estimate the hollow open frame stand.. I once indulged in it too. Undeniable natural musical representation. Though I believe it will be harder to gauge improvement or sound change later when u start tweaking from the source to speaker cable...
100% disagree here. These open frame "ringers" actually COLOUR the sound even more further away from "natural musical representation". It just muddies everything up with a wash of sound and blurry focus. Wait till you hear a properly set up Harbeth speaker and abandons all the common popular self-defeating accessories then one will realise what it is really capable of.


Modernbird.....ten dollar tweak, do not buy other speaker stand yet, anyway, it is not easy to get 19" stand locally.

Got to local bicycle shop and buy the inner tube, slice into half and wrap it around the ringing tube frame(just like wrapping the badminton/tennis racket handle).
This will cure the ringing thin walled iron frame and still maintain the correct 19" height and solidity of metal frames. You can play around with solid top plate (with or without) by using bluetak to hold it down.
Sam will faint and die if he sees you mess up his 'pride & joy"
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Post by moderneagle on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:41 am

Hey Ryder, I hear you about the Skylans and the Sound Anchors.
Have read about them in the HUG previously but I think the costs are rather prohibitive bearing in mind there aren't any ways to audition them before buying and, and, I think the used market here for such stands purpose built for Harbeth is limited if I decide to sell 'em off later and, and and I don't want to lose no vibrancy either, so I get your drift. So, in summary, I'll try out any locally available stands height not withstanding (can always stand up or use some pillows under the arse to correctly position the ear) and see if they work better.

@ soonthas, About the input ac voltage, ALL my electronics are designed to work on 230VAC (that's what they print on the back of the devices), so having a regulator that puts out the right stepped down AC at least is in keeping with the operating voltage. I've gotten readings as high as 250VAC from the wall and it varies at different hours on the clock. Now whether the regulator is giving out "filtered clean, fast and correct phasing" supply* is another matter which I suspect is what those uber cool looking and high cost power systems do (like the one you have).

@muggie, I hear you bro, will also pay a visit soon to ATS to actually talk to the guy, I've just sneak a peak like a spy the last time I was in Amcorp. And if you (and that VS126 guy) don't mind addressing me with my proper name which is branded (seriously it is**), I'll be happy as a clam.

Note* I just sound like I know what I'm talking about but I don't.
Note** There's an amp builder who named a variation of his globally regarded guitar tube amps after me after I specified the tone tweaks which he modded the amp to. Ceh wah.. haha. Check Ceriatone.

Yours, my name is, moderneagle.

p/s Vince, I'll try that RM10 bicycle tweak. I'll bypass the 20k carpet tweak.

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Post by Bite on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:58 am

As a designer, I would faint as well if my stands are put into the same category as tayar celup.

Moderneagle let us know outcome. Harbeth site claims height of stands will affect highs (tweeter to be ear level) as well as the bass ( distance from floor) as would the plates on stands. A bit of a toss really, cause one could make a career out of getting the height of the stands right. Another Harbeth enigma.


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Post by soonthas on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:16 pm

Hi Moderneagle,

Like VS126's idea, you may also try thin black carpet to stop the stands ringing by little "manual" sewing job wrapping the iron flame with the carpet.
It's real headache about ac conditioning. Besides ac voltage fluctuation, there are many other ac problems like EMI/RFI/noise contaminants, DC disturbance, waveform distortion, surge, sags, ground loop, frequency variation...etc to tackle. So far there is no a single ac conditioner which can eliminate all these ac problem ( unless having a personal Power plant mainly for hifi use ).
Btw, the voltage regulator would be a good starting point for your system.

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Post by VS126 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:21 pm

Bite,

As long as it sounds good. You cld actually wrap it up to look nice, and multi color too. Everyday is like a carnival.

Anyway thanks Moderneagle for the TT, at least this place got electric fans.
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Post by Bite on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:46 pm

VS126... thats what I tell wifey.

Eagles on endangered list. At rate things going there may one eagle less.

His system sounds good to these wooden ears though.



Last edited by Bite on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ooops!)

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Post by VS126 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:06 pm

Bite,

All Harbeth sounds good. Period...

Happy? everyone?

(no more hate mails to me OK?)
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Post by moderneagle on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:41 pm

VS126 wrote:Bite,

All Harbeth sounds good. Period...

Happy? everyone?

(no more hate mails to me OK?)

Bwahahaha... no permanent damage done bro other than a few bruised sentiments which time will surely heal with more listening to music or muzak (in my case). So whoever the culprit please stop sending hate mails to VS126 but if you do, please copy me in the loop as I am also known as an upper class kpc amongst my many positive attributes.

Yours, real men lurks in hifi forums, moderneagle

p/s @ soonthas one day after I strike a lottery, I hope to try out the real expensive wines and some good power conditioners and no I'm not talking about the shampoo.

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Post by mugenfoo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:48 pm

Bite wrote:Mugen,

The blurry sound comes when the speakers start dancing with the music on their stands. So I have been made to understand.

The whole idea of the light frame, so I am told, it is to drain/transmit mechanical vibrations away from the speakers into the vibration sink fastest possible. If one subscribes to this then the open/light frames may well serve that purpose versus say one made of MDF. I havent compared any other so cant really comment, which better.

What do you mean by ringing and how does that cause a deterioration/colouration of the sound?

Also what stands do you think would suit the Harbies well?

Look forward to your views.

rgs

The concept is correct such that good stands would act as a "vibration sink" and suck up all the cabinet energies or as inert platforms and let the cabinet themselves work close to an ideal environment with minimal external influence.

However, the open-frame locally made metal frames actually vibrate sympathetically at multiple resonant points from the cabinet's energy and hence it acts to store the mechanical energy, and then re-release it back to both the floor and the speaker cabinet.

Its electrical equivalent in an electronic circuit would be a capacitor (or multiple capacitors at various junctions, each with its own Q/resonant points ), as an analogy.

So when the cabinet is excited not only by the woofers but by a resonating stand as well, that's when the proverbial sh!t hits the fan....

What stands i "think" would suit it well ? That one you better ask our dear friend @Ryder who has investigated in-depth into this area.
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Post by tycham on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:53 pm

Harbeth speakers - discussion thread - Page 6 Ins_bs10

I like these under my Harbeth. But please don't ask me about the sound. I bought these because I thought they look gorgeous, but more also because Swee were smiling at me so sweetly when I walk into his shop.
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Post by mugenfoo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:59 pm

Bite wrote: Harbeth site claims height of stands will affect highs (tweeter to be ear level) as well as the bass ( distance from floor) as would the plates on stands. A bit of a toss really, cause one could make a career out of getting the height of the stands right. Another Harbeth enigma.


No need to "claim". Height of stands , speakers, even listener's chair height, chair material, etc etc all will affect the perceived sound. It's all part of the speaker/listener/room boundary interaction which IMO, is the greatest influence to the sound perceived, and unfortunately, always the elephant in the room that is too often ignored & overlooked.

As hi-fi aficionados, we would rather dish out more moolah for this-and-that equipment and gadgets and tweaks because such hardware have a natural appeal to most if not all of us. Yours truly included.

Those few who are willing to actually break out of this paradigm shift and start looking into the realm of environmental treatment ... it's a whole new revelation altogether. No need to quote me on this, but anyone can see how pro studios are set up, concert halls, music chamber , dance studios, church halls are set up, then one can appreciate the role of how environmental influence is the invisible hand that makes or breaks a system.

In fact, its also the best kept secret among a select few hifi dealers who always shy-away from this topic, but in the back of their head, its their "secret weapon" into optimising the best presentation of the gear they are peddling.
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Post by mugenfoo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:18 pm

soonthas wrote:Hi Moderneagle,
Btw, the voltage regulator would be a good starting point for your system.
You gotta be kidding ....
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Post by tycham on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:32 pm

mugenfoo wrote:

Those few who are willing to actually break out of this paradigm shift and start looking into the realm of environmental treatment ...

I am still wondering how my mason straightened the adjacent room side of the wall after being instructed to do the listening room walls slightly off parallel. Now, if the Home Minister would allow me to hang some used wok on the wall, sure would get rid of flutter echo with all these anti focusing surfaces!
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