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Post by samn on Sun May 23, 2010 12:16 am

I'm thinking of adding a Power Amp to biamp with my 8000S as a Pre Amp. I believe the ideal candidate would be 100W RMS Audiolab 8000P, however, I was thinking if there's any other alternative than 8000P. Any advise would be really appreciated.


Last edited by samn on Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by WongKN on Sun May 23, 2010 10:29 pm

Not 8000S but I have used 8000A as pre-amp into an Arcam Alpha 8 as well as Luxman poweramp. Both combination sounded nice, with the Luxman having better control of the bass and generally sounding more dynamic and in control but the Arcam having better midrange and the sense of music generally 'flowing' better. With the 8000A, the phono stage is quite limiting, certainly not up to pre-power duties but the line-stage is pretty good. Not sure of the 8000S though I would think it is supposed to be a higher model so should be better. Actually Audio Image has a pair of 8000M momoblocs 2nd hand. It's a good power amp, powerful with good dynamics and deserving of a good home. Perhaps good match to your 8000S ?
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Post by samn on Mon May 24, 2010 7:28 pm

Thanks for the feedback Wong. Do you have the contact no, address and location of Audio Image? Appreciated.
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Post by WongKN on Mon May 24, 2010 7:54 pm

Audio Image is 03-79563077, Adrian. He's located in the row of shophouses behind Paris restaurant in SS2, the same row as Selangor Drama School. Open Monday - Saturday, 2:30pm till around 7:30pm.
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Post by samn on Mon May 24, 2010 9:36 pm

Thanks Wong. I'll give it a shot. Couldn't imagine how 2X8000M sound with 8000S but I've heard it with 8000P...superb to me. BTW, is Adrian a member in this forum? Really appreciated.
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Post by WongKN on Mon May 24, 2010 9:44 pm

Adrian is not a member. He is actually not very internet savvy.
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Post by samn on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:32 pm

Cancel.


Last edited by samn on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by wsyam on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:55 pm

i have a friend who wants to sell off his pair of 8000m's...u can reach him on 019 3879861- radzman

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Post by mugenfoo on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:02 pm

samn wrote:I've called Adrian, Audio Image, he wanted to sell the 2X8000M for 4K. The monoblocks were 2 years old but I personally think there were way too expensive as used items. As Adrian, Audio Image said he didn't want to "waste" his time even before I probe further so I didn't bother to ask more or even nego at all. There goes a snob hifi dealer!

BTW, I've found a pair of 8000M New Display Items from another hifi dealer cost me a cool 2.5K for a pair. He's selling to clear his stocks. Very happy with them. Thanks for the lead Wong.


hahaha, looks like u & adrian don't jive. But glad u found a cheaper alternative. RM2.5K for a pair is a real steal. cheers.
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Post by samn on Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:32 pm

wsyam wrote:i have a friend who wants to sell off his pair of 8000m's...u can reach him on 019 3879861- radzman

Thanks wsyam. Perhaps, I would give him a call, I could upgrade further with 4X8000M Bi-Amping configurations. I digged old What HiFi Magazines October 1996, where they used 8000A with 4X8000M as reference system. Their comment back then was good clarity and sound stage, lower end bass with sweet treble but they did caution about the sound may be too informative especially at the midrange. Well, if the prices are right just what I had bought recently, I wouldn't mind spend for another pair 8000M.
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Post by samn on Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:57 am

wsyam wrote:i have a friend who wants to sell off his pair of 8000m's...u can reach him on 019 3879861- radzman

Bro wsyam, he sold off the pair already for 2.3K...see this is reasonable price too.
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Post by ngheong on Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:22 am

hi, may i ask is there any agent for audiolab in malaysia? what is the estimated price for new 8000S. I am think to get one.

thanks.

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Post by arremie on Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:29 am

I'm planning to go visit Audio Image but with this kind of "potong leher" attitude.... I'll pass.
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Post by peter8 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:00 pm

Hi,

I have recently bought a pair of used 8000M, any suggestions of speakers to match, please? Tq. Audiolab - discussion thread Icon_biggrin

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Post by mugenfoo on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:27 pm

arremie wrote:I'm planning to go visit Audio Image but with this kind of "potong leher" attitude.... I'll pass.

Have you met the audio image guy in person before ?
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Post by peter32 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:37 pm

I have visited Audio Image a few times, got my speaker serviced by the owner ( I would guess is Adrian), and asked a few stupid questions many times. I don't feel the snob in him actually, so I guess its good to pay the shop a visit.

In many occasions he would be busy doing the servicing himself at the back. Perhaps the call would have directed to him at the wrong time I guess.

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Post by arremie on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:46 pm

No I haven't meet him in person. Ok maybe not fair for me to judge him based on one comment. I will pay him a visit and see if he's another Tong Lee or not.
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Post by car o scope on Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:03 pm

Well, I think it is better to comment if we had spoken to the actual person. Very Happy

What sort of experience you had with Tong Lee? Sounds like something happened.
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Post by samn on Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:46 pm

peter8 wrote:Hi,

I have recently bought a pair of used 8000M, any suggestions of speakers to match, please? Tq. Audiolab - discussion thread Icon_biggrin

If you don't mind sharing, may I know how much you bought it and how old are they? On the speakers, I would suggest Mission, Castle, Monitor Audio and Whaferdale. Along these speakers, you may find one suitable to you. I'm currently using 8000S with Mission M66i, previously TDL RTL2. Audiolab amps are very transparent and neutral sounding so you need to match with suitable sources to your liking. I like plenty of bass and sweet midrange but without missing much on the treble, hence I bought the Mission.
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Post by arremie on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:46 pm

car o scope wrote:Well, I think it is better to comment if we had spoken to the actual person. Very Happy

What sort of experience you had with Tong Lee? Sounds like something happened.
The experience is good. The uncle is very friendly but the price over there is not so friendly especially when you'll already know the price you can get from some other places (which is way way cheaper).
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Post by mugenfoo on Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:58 pm

arremie wrote:No I haven't meet him in person. Ok maybe not fair for me to judge him based on one comment. I will pay him a visit and see if he's another Tong Lee or not.

Wink


Curious, did u have a bad experience at Tong Lee ?

I've bought some stuff from Tong Lee, but nothing major. But always just kind of felt that the shop is just to buy stuff that is conveniently available only. It has an overall very impersonal feel to that whole shop.

And they're always demo'ing that live version of the Hotel California song day in and day out. Such a drone. This is all at the Plaza Low Yat shop.
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Post by ymchen on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:37 pm

Hi!
Any one knows anymore 8000M (used but in good condition) for sale (pre-tag days)?

Thanks.

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Post by mugenfoo on Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:18 pm

ymchen wrote:Hi!
Any one knows anymore 8000M (used but in good condition) for sale (pre-tag days)?

Thanks.

there is a pair of s/hand 8000M for sale somewhere in PJ . PM if interested.
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Post by flyfly on Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:12 pm

i pair my 8000s with 8000p...
i used all OCC cables
I really dont miss anythings..best combo money can buy Idea
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Post by ymchen on Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:51 am

Hi flyfly,

You mean using one 8000p versus 2 8000m will have the same impact?

What is OCC cables?

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Post by nick696 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:00 pm

Hi! 8000M still available? what is the price?



mugenfoo (Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:18 pm) wrote:
ymchen wrote:Hi!
Any one knows anymore 8000M (used but in good condition) for sale (pre-tag days)?

Thanks.

there is a pair of s/hand 8000M for sale somewhere in PJ . PM if interested.
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Post by sswong3374 on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:17 pm

Samn,

U may try using 8000s with quad 606 or quad other model or creek A52SE. to me it sound better than pair with 8000p.

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Post by samn on Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:44 pm

sswong3374 wrote:Samn,

U may try using 8000s with quad 606 or quad other model or creek A52SE. to me it sound better than pair with 8000p.

Thanks sswong3374 for the feedback. Really appreciate if you could elaborate your findings. Thanks.
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Post by mugenfoo on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:23 am

no way ... 8000P is much better sounding that a Quad 606 anytime, anyday . IMO of course. Razz Razz Razz
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Post by sswong3374 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:14 am

Dear Mugen,

I'm not surprise you have different taste from a lot of us. Otherwise you are not mugen. : )

Dear Samn,
So far at least 3-4 people around me feel that a quad 606/creek A52SE sound better in term of smoothness, drive power(LF), vocal, generally it sound warmer and more musical.

1 of them is using 8000p intially, later recap with Blackgate, still he found unmod creek A52se is better to him so he sold the 8000p.

2 other friends and myself prefer quad. Anyway, it may due to quad is one of the solidstate amp which sound slightly like tube type of amp.

anyhow, 2 of us is using tube amp now.

But if your taste is like Mugen then you may like 8000P. Just go and try out and get the 1 you like most.


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Post by bimmerman on Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:05 am

8000P is very neutral sounding. Pair it with a valve preamp and it will surely please.
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Post by sph on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:11 am

This thread is basically a very opinionated one.

Mugen has his preferences and so do sswong. Bimmerman too has his preferences and so do the rest of us. Everyone's preferences differ.
So, samn, it is really up to you decide what you like (budget permitting), while everyone here gives his/her opinion.

Go listen to various setups and component combinations to help you decide.
Listen to the music, not so much the opinions. The opinions of the sifus will give you a guide though.

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Post by WongKN on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:24 am

Best post so far IMHO. For equipment choices, personal taste is probably the most important factor of all. Different people -will- have different priorities so it is natural that they will have different recommendations. The possibilities are endless and each recommendation will have their own merit. So the best advice is to go listen to as many alternatives as possible, always with an open mind. Very Happy
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Post by sswong3374 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:18 pm

Just some sharing as a ex-audiolab user, 8000A/S if need better drive then have to move to pre& power. (my 8000A now serve as AV amp)

if the drive power is sufficient for you and you just wish to tune to sound a bit, example :make it a bit warmer/musical/some tube feel/analog.

Then by using tube buffer or tube preamp is 1 of the alternative (for 8000A, can internally separate the pre&power section by remove some resistor, 8000S got selection button) ,

even better if can use analog sound type of DAC like 1541A /AD1865 Type of DAC (recommend to bypass the OPA in I/V ouput- a lot of differences--> less veil, more natural and tighter bass for my 1541A but your 8000s volume pot may need to go up to 12o'clock and above)


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Post by samn on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:20 pm

Really appreciate all sifus' opinions. I'll find Quad and Creek for listening. How about 2x8000M? Anyone has any sound opinions on these monoblocks? I'm looking for tighter low end and more sparkling high end. Midrange is no issue. I'm prepared to spend between 2K-3K for a power amp either new or used or demo or discontinued stock.

Occasionally, I find the 8000s is not taking real advantage on my Mission M66i. I feel like they are there but not apparent. Close friends' suggested to pair it with a power amp, that's how the hunting begins. I've borrowed Rotel Power Amp delivering 125W the low end was superb but the high end was quite harsh compare to 8000s. I've connected it with Audio Vega Tube Preamp, very natural, sweet, sparkling and warm but the low end suffered a lot. I listen to Pop, R&B, NuFunk Jazz, Soul and Rock.

All sifus' opinions are really appreciated. Tqvm. Smile
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Post by WongKN on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:59 pm

I am not sure how appilicable this experience would be but when I had the Audiolab 8000A, I did use it before as a preamp, driving an Arcam Alpha 8 power amp and the sound was very nice. But the high frequencies does not 'sparkle' which is one of your 'requirements'. I also tried the 8000A as pre into a Luxman power amp and that had more highs and better bass than the Arcam. I am not sure but I tend to believe that perhaps it is the characteristic of british power amps of that era and -might- be indicative of the sound balance of the Audiolab 8000p as well. To its advantage, the mid-range with the Arcam is nice- warm and musical, more so than the Luxman. It also has more body in the images.

FWIW, I think perhaps you might have better chance with an american power amp ?
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Post by samn on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:57 am

WongKN wrote:FWIW, I think perhaps you might have better chance with an american power amp ?

By all means please, I've seen quite a number of used american amps here like Pass Lab, McIntosh, etc on sale here. Any advise please. Tqvm.
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Post by sswong3374 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:45 am

For tighter low end and more sparkling high end??

1) U can follow main stream which is looking for a power amp which can do the job.

2) alternative way but may not accepted by a lot malaysian and ur amp maynot have good 2nd hand value in Malaysia--> replace some of the e-cap in 8000S with blackgate, which will give you tighter and more solid bass and good resolution and good depth.

3) build your owe power amp like the passlab.

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Post by samn on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:30 pm

sswong3374 wrote:For tighter low end and more sparkling high end??

1) U can follow main stream which is looking for a power amp which can do the job.

2) alternative way but may not accepted by a lot malaysian and ur amp maynot have good 2nd hand value in Malaysia--> replace some of the e-cap in 8000S with blackgate, which will give you tighter and more solid bass and good resolution and good depth.

3) build your owe power amp like the passlab.

Thank you for the advises. I'll take step by step your suggestions from the earlier post to this one. I'm really amazed with your suggesstions on Quad and Creek which I've never thought of considering. I've begun reading a lot of good reviews on Quad 606 and also the current 909. Especially the 909, I've read some owners mentioned about tighter low end with sparkling high end plus lucid midrange matched with what I'm looking for. Now, I've got to find the place to listen to it before making the purchase. Once again, thank you for the suggestions. Very Happy
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Source(s): Rega RP3, Audiolab 8200CD, Marantz CD6003, Teac W790R & Teac V5010
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Post by adrian4454 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:38 pm

Hi samn,
I dont know I will get bombard by the some forummer here or not...
I am going to suggest something outrageous. A China amp to all your British madness...

Check into the Audio GD SA300SE... you should be about to find out quite some details fromt their official website. You wont find much review in the web. But I can guarantee you that you will get yourself a Monster at the price of a potato. What make me keep saying about this brand is their absolute spec to cost ratio. like u are paying 1 dollar for 5 dollar whole of spec.

Dont worry about any cheating from this brand.. what being advertised on the internal circuit... is the real deal. Why stop at the puny 100W that Audiolab 8000p can give... at 300W in 8 ohm, it take a whole new dimensional approach.

It is bit of uncharted water here... anyway, you can approach a person chua55.. a member here for more details~

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Post by WongKN on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:01 pm

Samn,

Looks like you need to do some research and then some 'field-work'. Perhaps,

1) At this stage, you would have some idea of what to look for. Do not dismiss anything outright. Consider ALL advices from ALL forumers.

2) Research in the net or by contact, any alternative for which you might want to know more detail, like the Audio-GD, or for reviews of amps advertised for sale in our 'for-sale' forum, etc.

3) Do an initial survey to see what are offered by dealers and sellers.

4) Shortlist those items you want to consider and consider bringing your Audiolab 8000S over to listen with them. This means the dealer or seller will need to let you listen with your 8000S in their system. I think it is somewhat of a necessity for you to consider buying

5) Once you are down to the last leg, if you still want feedback, you can always come back here again.

Tomorrow is a public holiday so you would seem to have an interesting day lined-up ? Very Happy
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Post by sswong3374 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:42 pm

No offence, just my own opinion.

I have no doubt at the sound quality of the china made hifi product (those using china brand name), a lot of them sound super with much lower cost.

The only doubt i have is their reliability. Ask those who had use BADA, AUDIOVEGA CD player, you may not find a good feedback on the reliability.

My previous china brand tube output cdp only work for ~1 year, giving me a lot headach, even after change the pickup several times. Maybe i'm bad luck, but several friends out there also face similar problem.

For amp i'm not sure their reliability, normally amp shall have less problem than cdp.

Anyway some china brand do sound good with decent build quality.
example, shanling's quality seems not bad when look at their internal pcb and parts.


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Post by adrian4454 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:55 pm

Hi Wong,
Sorry to hear your bad experience. Personally, I wont go for mechanical parts from China on the emerging market.

But circuit work with no moving part are least likely to fail except of bad solder work and cheap component used. In the case of Audio-gd amp.. you only have least to worry about on the solder work. It is the 2 or 3 generation of their power amp.. I believe most circuit design issue has been anchored out.... I would have bet on their Int amp C-400(Dis-continued), had I manage to find this amp before I purchase my Exposure.

Haha, having say that; it is still an uncharted water... paradise might not be far away in that lagoon. Smile

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Post by samn on Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:30 pm

adrian4454 wrote:Hi samn,
I dont know I will get bombard by the some forummer here or not...
I am going to suggest something outrageous. A China amp to all your British madness...

Check into the Audio GD SA300SE... you should be about to find out quite some details fromt their official website. You wont find much review in the web. But I can guarantee you that you will get yourself a Monster at the price of a potato. What make me keep saying about this brand is their absolute spec to cost ratio. like u are paying 1 dollar for 5 dollar whole of spec.

Dont worry about any cheating from this brand.. what being advertised on the internal circuit... is the real deal. Why stop at the puny 100W that Audiolab 8000p can give... at 300W in 8 ohm, it take a whole new dimensional approach.

It is bit of uncharted water here... anyway, you can approach a person chua55.. a member here for more details~

Hi adrian4454,
Thanks for the feedback but I think 300W/8ohm is way too much for my loudspeakers max ouput 150W/8ohm. Anywhere, I did notice few Chinese made amps getting good review in HiFi+ and The Absolute Sound magazines and Shanling Tube Power Amp did appear but the price if converted to MYR is definitely way too expensive perhaps the built and sound qualities are justified with the asking price. Again thanks, yes, it did take a whole new dimension approach. Very Happy
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Post by samn on Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:35 pm

WongKN wrote:
Tomorrow is a public holiday so you would seem to have an interesting day lined-up ? Very Happy

Most certainly, Thanks. I really appreciate with all the advise given. It took me a 360 degree turns when digesting all suggestions. This is really appreciated and I have more to look forward when finding the ideal amp. Thanks again. Laughing
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Post by adrian4454 on Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:47 pm

Hi samn,
Dont get intimidated by high power. You do really need it for control and effortless delivery.
Music doesnt always run at constant power(from the amp), the wildly fluctuating amplitude according to the notes and rhythm will require example like 20~80watt from the speaker output terminal eventhough the volume is at 9 o'clock.

3 Good things that I can perceive of from a powerful amp:
- you may only need 20~30% of the power of 300 watts, this translated to refinement as the amp doesnt need to stress to distortion to deliver the power required.
- when a sudden kick drum or heavy hand piano, or other strong percussions will certainly being driven better by a powerful beast.
- Those hilly up and down Impedance of modest speaker always play trick to lesser power amp; A powerful amp will most certain do a good job in making the music more balance, especially at the bass region.

If you are looking for power, dont retrict yourself, if your 3k can get u quality 500 w in 8 ohm, by all mean; go for it. because high power amp often does something special to modest speaker. As long as you practise good hi fi operation to them; there shouldnt post any problem.
You should only worry when it is reaching 1000w Smile

Be warn, power can be addictive. Haha, again guys do correct me if I am been smoking pot while writing all these.

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Post by mugenfoo on Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:25 pm

the only true way to solve all these forum "free advice" is to actually haul-ass and go to a reputable shop and have a listen for one's self.

No amount of forum opinions, advice and lengthy posts can ever substitute for real-world experience.

Otherwise the more one reads such many many opinions, the more cuntfused the reader runs the risk of being trapped around in circles.

Hi-fi, like most things in life, there are no short cuts.
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Post by samn on Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:57 am

adrian4454 wrote:Hi samn,
3 Good things that I can perceive of from a powerful amp:
- you may only need 20~30% of the power of 300 watts, this translated to refinement as the amp doesnt need to stress to distortion to deliver the power required.
- when a sudden kick drum or heavy hand piano, or other strong percussions will certainly being driven better by a powerful beast.
- Those hilly up and down Impedance of modest speaker always play trick to lesser power amp; A powerful amp will most certain do a good job in making the music more balance, especially at the bass region.

Yes, I do find these 3 good things are valid. Perhaps, it is all about taking chances in audio sound nirvana. Thanks for the advise.
samn
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Post by htkaki on Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:09 am

mugenfoo wrote:the only true way to solve all these forum "free advice" is to actually haul-ass and go to a reputable shop and have a listen for one's self.

No amount of forum opinions, advice and lengthy posts can ever substitute for real-world experience.

Otherwise the more one reads such many many opinions, the more cuntfused the reader runs the risk of being trapped around in circles.

Hi-fi, like most things in life, there are no short cuts.
Very Happy That's really confusing.. LMAO...

Talking abt power amp, too bad that I ain't have enough bullets to let me pull the trigger on this :

Audiolab - discussion thread P005_1_02
http://ckaudio.com/amplifier.html
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Post by WongKN on Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:41 am

HTKaki,

Life is short. You should just buy !! Very Happy
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