Linn Sondek LP12

Any ideas on where to purchase a new set of custom plinth and platter for my old LP12 locally?

Any recommendations as to who is capable of "rebuilding" the LP12 (assuming if the custom plinth and platter can be sourced locally).

Thanks.

Perfect HiFi is now carrying LINN products, I am sure you will be in good hand talking to them for anything new.

There are many LP12 experts in KL, but since you thinking of getting new platter and plinth, it is best to source this from LINN dealer locally, hence Perfect HiFi will be able to direct you correctly.

Thank you Jokiarch.

cmboy is another LP12 guru here ... see if he'll lurk into this thread or not.

Am thinking of the Inspire Hifi's £699 (approx. RM3,500+) Vivid Linn Sondek LP12 upgrade kit which consists of:-

• Vivid plinth in maple, light oak or cherry (stunning looks)
• Vivid sub chassis and armboard
• Vivid bottom base with sorbothane shock absorbers
• Vivid LP12 mat
• Hercules electronic 33 / 45 PSU
• Free expert build (only in UK)

Click here to see Vivid Kit Photos

Only problem is getting a Linn expert here in the Klang Valley to help me install the kit and rebuild the TT.

Also, not sure if the Vivid kit improves the sound or otherwise.

What do you guys think?

anytime u buy some package, its always a risk u have to take. no one here can really tell you if the vivid package is good stuff or not.

As for Linn LP12 experts, there are plenty around town. But again, there is an issue such that if u just walked up to one of them, without knowing them on a personal level, and just ask them to install this package which you bought yourself, they would most likely write-off this pkg as wasting their time and not want to provide you the service of installing it, or really do this for you wholeheartedly. Some LP12 experts around town at the shops i know are real eccentric prima-donnas ( without naming any names ).

You might be better off to take this as a serious DIY endeavour at your own leisure.

The vivid package will likely change the LP12 sonic character quite significantly but for better or worse I won't know unless I've one built up to compare. Its NOT the plinth but item 2,3,4 that'll change the sound. There's some things you don't simply replace unless they're manufacturer approved and they can confidently tell you it's better sounding, but then again its personal taste again and whether anyone will gamble on upgrade stuff. As for my view on plinth, I highly recommend plinths from Chris Harbans in USA who have established a great reputation for the most exotic wood plinths ever and rather limited due to availability. They're very expensive but IMHO, its the best so far and one particular expert dealer in UK have exclusively selected these for plinth upgrade. You may find details and write ups by googling.
The Hercules is a good investment and highly recommended. A new motor is also highly recommeded if the LP12 is quite old. Its known than old plinths do have some amount of warpage and this can affect the suspension setup to varying degrees. Every wood plinth type may affect the sonic quality to some extent. Sorry, but this is beyond my knowledge as I don't have a dozen types to gauge its performance.
Just too many things to change on any LP12 if its brought near to current specs. Very expensive, but highly suggested if one insists on keeping an LP12. Justice should be served if its expected to perform to high expectation.

Many thanks Mugenfoo & CMboy for your suggestions and for so kindly sharing your experience and knowledge.

My LP12 is old (1983/84) - was thinking of giving it a fresher look if I could afford it. Would love to DIY. Unfortunately, with my zero knowledge of TT (more so the LP12 itself), I dare not. If I were to screw up, I don't think I could ever live with it. Also, time is a luxury I do not have at this time. The Vivid package looked extremely eye catching to me and relatively affordable, so I was eager to find out more. Nonetheless, as suggested, I will find out how much Chris Barbans' Woodsong plinths will cost me.

As for the Hercules PS, do you think that this would be a step up for me? I am already using an external PS from Audio Image (for those who are familiar, am using the larger version). I also have a Lingo but I have never used this before (I sort of "inherited" the Linn from a good friend of mine - long story). Being a newbie in TTs (and not technically savvy), would I be better off with the (a) Hercules (b) Lingo or (c) the external PS from Audio Image? Fyi, I can't AB (b) and (c), as this would require some minor mod to the connector/wire (the Lingo uses the 5-pin head, whereas my existing PS uses the normal 3-pin head).

Re: Support & isolation devices. I noticed that from the pics of Joki's setup, he uses a glass panel to support his LP12 together with some isolation cones (presumably, Infinite Elemente ceraballs or something similar). Does this help to tighten the bottom and improve transparency? Am currently using a ATS wooden rack with 3 Finer Point cones (also from Audio Image). I believe many of you LP12 owners have experimented on this - would appreciate it if you could share your experiences with me and help guide me in the right path.

Thanks.

Hi,
I've no idea of the merits of the Audio Image PSU but let me highlight the merits of Hercules PSU.
1. Designed to fit inside the LP12.
2. Quartz locked speed control.
3. Dual speed 33rpm and 45rpm
4. Improved design from the original Valhalla PSU which never lasted long.
5. I deem it as a poor man's Lingo. The Lingo is quite a pricy add on.

The Hercules is not exactly a easy fit to all LP12's. It WOULD BE an easy fit IF it had a Valhalla fitted previously. Older LP12 cross brace have to drill half a dozen holes to retrofit the Hercules. A fair bit of skill required, made easier and accurately with a bench drill press.
In addition to fitting the Hercules, a bit of motor adjustment is neccessary to finetune so that it rotates precisely at 33rpm. This is outlined in the instruction manual as part of periodical tune up or maintenance proceedure.
So, if you think you're happy with the current PSU, leave it be, otherwise if the Hercules's qualities exceed the current PSU, by all means spend and upgrade to Hercules. Or use the Lingo that you have?
Believe it that I'm not using the Hercules PSU and happy with my own custom simple type thats almost bulletproof and least chance of it getting fried. Less electronics, less probable headache because I can count the components on my fingers on one hand and it does give me very accurate 33rpm at anytime. I don't need the 45rpm either as I prefer playing 45's on a Rega. I'm saving to buy a Chris Harban plinth if thats that first thing I'll do in the near future. So much for my story over here. :-))

alphadog467 wrote:

As for the Hercules PS, do you think that this would be a step up for me? I am already using an external PS from Audio Image (for those who are familiar, am using the larger version). I also have a Lingo but I have never used this before (I sort of "inherited" the Linn from a good friend of mine - long story). Being a newbie in TTs (and not technically savvy), would I be better off with the (a) Hercules (b) Lingo or (c) the external PS from Audio Image? Fyi, I can't AB (b) and (c), as this would require some minor mod to the connector/wire (the Lingo uses the 5-pin head, whereas my existing PS uses the normal 3-pin head).

Re: Support & isolation devices. I noticed that from the pics of Joki's setup, he uses a glass panel to support his LP12 together with some isolation cones (presumably, Infinite Elemente ceraballs or something similar). Does this help to tighten the bottom and improve transparency? Am currently using a ATS wooden rack with 3 Finer Point cones (also from Audio Image). I believe many of you LP12 owners have experimented on this - would appreciate it if you could share your experiences with me and help guide me in the right path.

Thanks.

Hi, I am using Hercules PS with my old LP12 and I am very happy with it; even my 33 1/2 sounded better with its quartz clock control. Having said that, I have high regards of Audio Image's power supply, so since you have this, you should be well quip already.

There are a lot of LP12 experts out there and around you, they should be able to offer you all the advice you need. I listened and do try them especially when it make sense to me, and improve and explore further.

There are also a lot of negative advises like Itok arm, without corner bracing, etc...not good; high tensile screws for rubber footers a must, cannot change the rubber footers, plater matt, ... the list run a mile long. However, of one universal advice, which I would agree absolutely, is the removal of the cardboard bottom cover!

Apart from the cardboard cover removal, I am not following. I even threw away the felt matt and utilising 3 metal discs as vinly props, remove also the rubber footers & use isolation (not entirely a pure Infinite Element cones), and I added my own diy clamp and also dampers. BUT the bass is fabulous though, quite unlike spring load TT yet it retains the musicality and soundstaging LP12 is known for IMHO.

However, I am no expert in TT as I only know LP12.

TT is a lot about Newton's Law of Energy, understand how TT works, apply Newton's Law yield great results.

Jo Ki

whats Newton's Law of Energy ?

mugen, it could be a typo ( I hope!)

Thanks Jo Ki. Could you pls elaborate on the use of isolation cones and dampers? I was considering of using the Infinite Elemente cones to replace the Finer Points.

Before this, I didn't know that the LP12 is known for its soundstage. I am certainly not experiencing this (good soundstage) from my TT - flat and 2D. So, I am only using my TT to listen to mostly 70s & 80s pop music for musicality, but nothing else (no 3D imaging, etc). I have purchased a few so-called audiophile grade LPs such as Jennifer Warnes (Hunter), Holly Cole Trio and Eva Cassidy (Songbird) - but all turn out to be disappointing - sound muted and lack of life compared to original pressings of the past (other titles of course). Even my CD sounds better! I wonder if this is due to how I isolate my TT.

alphadog467 wrote:Thanks Jo Ki. Could you pls elaborate on the use of isolation cones and dampers? I was considering of using the Infinite Elemente cones to replace the Finer Points.

Before this, I didn't know that the LP12 is known for its soundstage. I am certainly not experiencing this (good soundstage) from my TT - flat and 2D. So, I am only using my TT to listen to mostly 70s & 80s pop music for musicality, but nothing else (no 3D imaging, etc). I have purchased a few so-called audiophile grade LPs such as Jennifer Warnes (Hunter), Holly Cole Trio and Eva Cassidy (Songbird) - but all turn out to be disappointing - sound muted and lack of life compared to original pressings of the past (other titles of course). Even my CD sounds better! I wonder if this is due to how I isolate my TT.

Just guessing here, but your situation could be a case of a mis-aligned or not optimally set-up TT .

The problem with TT is that there are too many mechanical variables at play here. If just any one of these are out, the sound is entirely ruined. Compared to the simple convenience of a CD player that is as simple as hitting the Play button.

But once u get the basics of a TT setup correctly done, even an entry level TT should be able to sound sonically superior to CD in most areas esp in 3D soundstaging. Suggest that you get someone in the business who knows about TT setups to pay a visit at your place to really diagnose the problem.

mugenfoo wrote:whats Newton's Law of Energy ?

Sorry Mugenfoo, meant to say Newtons Law of Motion. Newtonian 1st and 2nd Laws relate well to the cartridge, motor and the plater; 3rd Law for the massing and how it is supported in its real world environment.

Jo Ki

CT-Boy wrote:mugen, it could be a typo ( I hope!)

Thank you CT-Boy. Mind and fingers coordination tends to slip when I get older... must be a stressful day. Sorry about the confusion.

alphadog467 wrote:Thanks Jo Ki. Could you pls elaborate on the use of isolation cones and dampers? I was considering of using the Infinite Elemente cones to replace the Finer Points.

Before this, I didn't know that the LP12 is known for its soundstage. I am certainly not experiencing this (good soundstage) from my TT - flat and 2D. So, I am only using my TT to listen to mostly 70s & 80s pop music for musicality, but nothing else (no 3D imaging, etc). I have purchased a few so-called audiophile grade LPs such as Jennifer Warnes (Hunter), Holly Cole Trio and Eva Cassidy (Songbird) - but all turn out to be disappointing - sound muted and lack of life compared to original pressings of the past (other titles of course). Even my CD sounds better! I wonder if this is due to how I isolate my TT.

You are welcome Alpha, there isn't anyone experiment isolating LP12 successfully in the business and domestic application. The reason is understandable due to its intangible nature to results. It is not so much of what cones is used but more of how it is applied, which is especially specific for LP12 due to its unique load channelling design. It is hard to explain without making more confusion and drawing more questions in this matter.

Likewise, damping is also as complex as isolation theory. There is only very fine margin for it to work too. But luckily I can repeat this in any LP12 and yield similar improvements relatively, even from already a well tuned LP12!

Your LP12 produces no soundstage? Something is not quite right. Besides its musicality, its ability to regenerates believable soundstaging and 3D imagine is superb especially listening to classical music where one of not many genres which staging can be considered quantifiable! The only drawbacks of LP12 is its bass-line which could be slightly lacking in focus eventhough it is tuneful, and its dynamic contrast is not as extreme as compare to mass-loaded TT, and the height extension for realm of immediacy.

In order to harness its potential while trying to improve its weaknesses, the right tweaks are needed. But please be fore-warned that tweaks are viewed as 'back art' and coined mumbo-jumbo despised by most audiophile all over the world, which explained why very little knowledge is available; in my understanding however, it is as much science as compare to how the Earth stays round.

Jo Ki

Thanks Mugenfoo, Jo Ki for your advice.

Will see if I can get someone to help me tune my LP12. Then, I'll look at the tweaks.

IMO, any additional damping on the LP12's plinth is akin to the last-mile of tweaking to tailor the sound you want.

The LP12, by its very nature of construction is already superbly isolated and therefore should already achieve some high level of sonic competence already. So if the sound is flat and un-inspiring, very likely there is some major flaw in the setup somewhere in the TT system. Better to get this fundamental flaw fixed first, before dabbling in any isolation tweaks or similar stuff.

Could be:
- a damaged knife-edge bearing on the tonearm ?
- A sagged / worn bushing on any of the 3 suspension springs ?
- wrong tension combo of the 3 suspension springs ?
- corroded / binding spindle bearings ?
- Bad cartridge alignment job (zenith (aka overhang & offset angle), azimuth, VTA, anti-skate)?
- Improper tracking force?
- Worn stylus tip ?
- Worn cantilever suspension?
- etc... etc ....

Dear Alphadog,

Can't figure out why you need a new platter. What happened? You can order one from the local Linn dealer. Not sure you can get a replica machined to correct specs.

Custom timber plinth would be a lot easier and you can get a furniture maker to do you one. Linn made them in various hardwood timber over the years, some flat finished others rebated/grooves. So obviously the Linn sound is not timber dependent engineering wise but stops at the sub-chassis presumably. Just observe the original dimensions and fixing methods accurately to preserve the aesthetics. Be careful when dismantling reassemble though. I've done one in Burmese teak for my Acoustic Research deck once in the college woodworking workshop to replace the cheap veneered particle board one. There are so many great local hardwood timber to choose from for your plinth which Linn themselves cannot afford and you can even piano lacquer it.

Bro Mugen as usual is correct in all his advice. All the usual list of checks to get right and once they are you'd probably take a long time before deciding on a tweak or a major upgrade of component/s. As I did but only after twenty over years of owning a simple valhalla/ Lvx. Recently added a Lingo and an Ittok.

The LP12 is hyper sensitive to correct set up that even a change in cartridge weight needs some adjustment in the spring tension to get it to bounce perfect.
Real black art it is but I was taught how to set up a Linn Sondek by a dealer during my college days in England. Sorry I won't set up for anyone, it's too much work.
That's why some people gave up on the Sondek because once they change the cartridge to something more expensive and usually heavier than the one installed and set up by the dealer when they first bought it sounded worse because the suspension needs adjusting to get it sounding right.
Sounds like a British car but it really is! The Sondek is Scottish so you got to understand the damn thing. Get everything right, sited permanently, other than the not occasional belt and bearing oil change, it will last for many generations to come. Just like the venerable Land Rover.

I'm sure there are Linn LP12 gurus here willing to re-set for any owner for a small commission. Enjoy, the Linn sound is still one of the best.

Cheers.