Vinyl or CD

by DrWho Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:15 pm

A quote from HifiUnlimited

" Some of us asked if Nick thought that LP is truly superior as a music format compared to CD? He reckoned if he had mastered them both of the same album, there should be no difference at all. If any, he says, it's because a vinyl set up offers more personalised tweaking to met preferences of the owner of the hifi system. A good CD based system would almost naturally be more accurate due to it's lack of adjust ability."

Vinly lovers do your rebuttal. Twisted Evil

CD lovers, sit back and grin.
Vinyl or CD Drunk-irish-048

by cmboy Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:23 pm

How about adding Digital Hi-res streaming? Supposed to be catching up and the in thing sooner or later. I'm sure owners of these equipment have their own reasons and justification. If able, I'll have all 3 for widest entertainment.

by mugenfoo Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:52 pm

This topic has been bashed, battered, mutilated and regurgitated beyond recognition already and in multiple threads. Why start a new one?

http://www.hifi4sale.net/t18300-vinyl-lovers-please-describe-the-reasons-for-your-preference-over-cd

http://www.hifi4sale.net/t19079-more-fuel-to-the-fire-analog-vs-digital

But for the record, I have gotten to know many "unsatisfied" CD owners who eventually took the plunge into vinyl as they always felt that something was just missing from their CD-only playback system.

Funnily, I have not met anyone giving up vinyl due to the (lack of) superiority of CD over the vinyl medium just yet.

by DrWho Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:59 pm

Because the statement came from a natural source, someone unbiased and with no self interest Very Happy

by James Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:02 pm

The debate will be no end........it finally boils down to personal preference.

I love CD. Very Happy

by Mikapoh Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:16 pm

DrWho wrote:Because the statement came from a natural source, someone unbiased and with no self interest

It is also the same statement from mastering engineers at PMC. Who is copied who?

From Joki's post:-

http://www.hifi4sale.net/t21284-cd-players-facing-history-soon

by DrWho Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:21 pm

It is the same source. Both writers were there at the studio when the comment was made.

by cmboy Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:23 pm

Mikapoh wrote:
It is also the same statement from mastering engineers at PMC. Who is copied who?

Recently, in a short AB comparison, same CD & LP album both early and possibly same period pressing), the TT was rigged up with a highly modded and improved branded budget phono stage. The CD and LP were marginally different in all aspect, generally perceived as almost same. When exchanged for my own hi-end phono and SUT combo, vast difference upwards in musicality, performance and overall personal satisfaction, from my POV.

by dixchen Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:46 pm

I happen to own a lovely Jazz album ( Gene Ammons ) of vinyl and cd both remastered by the same producer/recording engineer and in the description on the cd itself ,he has put down clearly on how he wanted to master it, the same way it was done on vinyl. My ' new ' TT setup which was used in comparison to my own very regarded digital rig, ( pure tube output of course) using the very analogue and true sounding TDA 1541A DAC, there is just no comparison but I can say its CLOSER to the sound of vinyl in ' SOME ' areas. ( comparing to modern da convertor chip variants ) TDA 1541A fans will agree with my findings here la.

Its not about musicality in anyway, both are in their own respective ways, but sound transferred to a digital medium is altered during the transfer from its master recording, thus every single instrument we ' believed ' to be original sounding there is out there sounds ' altered ' or different to the original source. And the original source in this case is a real instrument being played ' live '. One instrument that digital can never muster correctly would have to be the saxophone.

Vinyl preserves the ' correctness ' altogether. Don't bother even about resolution, its nothing about that at all.

In my own experience ( not that I was ever unsatisfied with my digital rig, many years spending time chasing the best in all possible way ), and I think I have ( heck I have never even heard a properly setup vinyl playback before this then! ) but eventually curiosity got the best of me and the best possible way was to go into this myself and make the comparison an hear the differences that I never got a chance to ( in my very own system ) and it took only one night or so to move forward and I have never looked back ever since!

Yes missed the convenience of the remote and hate the troublesome woes of having to flip and sometimes clean records Mad

but for the sheer superiority of the sound that I am hearing, ( soundstage width and height at another level Twisted Evil

) its all worth it.

Lets not start another debate regarding ANY of what I have just described above ya, ( the comparison within my own system context ) anybody reading this can take the above with a grain of salt Cool

by **WongKN** Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:45 pm

Actually looking at the total picture, what was quoted was just the opinion of some mastering engineers from -one- place in U.K. I very clearly recall reading opinions from other mastering engineers who favours analogue and even vinyl, or digital and CD (too lazy to dig up the links though).

by cmboy Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:58 pm

if not mistaken this was just up.

http://hifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/2011/11/visiting-fluid-mastering-studio-1.html

I see a very dated Rega PLANAR 3 and its used to gauge the LP cut?

I would have thought they'd use something much much better than that.

by sflam Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:17 pm

ahhh, i use ancient rega planar 3 with rb250 tonearm and i kena ketuk all the time.

now, all of u can see...even professional studio in england also use rega.... cheers

by cmboy Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:23 pm

Wanted to also mention it looks with thick dust that its probably hardly played...so the saying "collecting dust". Rolling Eyes

Pictures do provide tell tale signs.

The usual Rega "speed" matter, a lil faster than 33rpm, acceptable in a mastering studio? OTH, I'm sure thats critical when cutting.

Hey sflam, I too own a Rega 3 (not the ancient version though) and enjoy it nevertheless.

by DrWho Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:25 am

WongKN wrote:Actually looking at the total picture, what was quoted was just the opinion of some mastering engineers from -one- place in U.K. I very clearly recall reading opinions from other mastering engineers who favours analogue and even vinyl, or digital and CD (too lazy to dig up the links though).

Absolutely, I started this thread because most of the time the CD guys were having to defend their digital preference. I thought for a change it would be nice to see how the vinyl guys would defend their stance without the CD guys' counter argument. I remain neutral on this issue.

by dixchen Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:47 am

DrWho wrote:
WongKN wrote:Actually looking at the total picture, what was quoted was just the opinion of some mastering engineers from -one- place in U.K. I very clearly recall reading opinions from other mastering engineers who favours analogue and even vinyl, or digital and CD (too lazy to dig up the links though).

Absolutely, I started this thread because most of the time the CD guys were having to defend their digital preference. I thought for a change it would be nice to see how the vinyl guys would defend their stance without the CD guys' counter argument. I remain neutral on this issue.

Well you've now heard it from a cd AND vinyl guy now... Laughing

, well at least only one for now..

by sflam Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:51 am

when the pmc owner peter thomas was in town, i asked him why sometimes the vinyl version of an album sounds better than the cd version.

his answer was that when they make lps, a lot of care is taken to compare the sound of the test lacquer pressing with the master copy before the stamper is made.

when making cds, the master is sent to the mass-production factory and the people there will just download and start pressing the cds without checking if the cds sound similar to the master.

by **WongKN** Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:05 pm

But that is the thing. The CD master is a digital file. So what is there to compare ? You cannot flips some bits if the master file sounds shitty. Which bits to flip ? This is some of the pitfalls of shoe-horning an analog medium into the digital medium. It's a bit like insisting everything must be black or white while the reality is there are almost infinite shades of grey as well.

by sflam Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:11 pm

peter thomas also said vinyl beats cd in terms of spaciousness and soundstaging. and these are factors that cannot be measured.

the thing is also that while a cloned digital file shld sound exactly like the master digital file, the vinyl made from the same master digital file often sounds better than the cd made from the same master digital file.

by **WongKN** Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:20 pm

If the master file is digital, then there will be an additional factor in play , how good is the DAC used in the mastering plant ? It is not possible to press an LP from a digital file, the digital file must first be converted into an analog master, then only the LP can be pressed. So it becomes an issue of the quality of the DAC used to convert the analog master. I once heard a Studio professional DAC machine and it sounded better than most consumer CD players I have heard. A CD on the other hand, can be made directly from the digital master. Once it gets into our hands, then we play it with our own CD player, or DAC fed from a computer, or whatever. So it becomes a case of how good our consumer DAC is compared to a professional studio DAC.

by carz Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:43 pm

CD has the disadvantage in that it is brickwalled at 20Khz and so you lose something. Maybe that accounts for what Dixchen described as the "Vinyl 'correctness'.

And also in order to playback what's left "correctly", you need a VERY VERY good DAC with ultra-low jitter in order to come close to Analog TT (which has no jitter to contend with)

Dixchen: what TT setup and phonostage are you using ? What CD Transport are you using with your TDA1541A DAC ?

by cmboy Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:50 pm

I've seen that a real deal digital recorder (Otari comes to mind and it exist here in Malaysia) in a well equiped studio is an open reel version, with multichannel, 24bit recording and other whizz bang features state of the art. They're the real deal and no home hifi stuff is anything near that.

Thereon, if any recording are then mixed down, downsampled or bit changed into CDR's, then sent to pressing plants, I reckon none of these "master" or mass produced CD copies are anything like the sound from the recorder console itself in the first place. The recording maybe in 24bit but CDP's play 16bit sound entirely as per red book. That being said, consumers will never get the same SQ as originally recorded.

by sflam Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:19 pm

cmboy wrote:
Thereon, if any recording are then mixed down, downsampled or bit changed into CDR's, then sent to pressing plants, I reckon none of these "master" or mass produced CD copies are anything like the sound from the recorder console itself in the first place. The recording maybe in 24bit but CDP's play 16bit sound entirely as per red book. That being said, consumers will never get the same SQ as originally recorded.

that is precisely the argument for hi-res files. some like linn offer studio master downloads.

by cmboy Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:00 pm

sflam wrote:that is precisely the argument for hi-res files. some like linn offer studio master downloads.

So for all thats already said, people listening to the red book cd is never having anything as good as the original digital recording all the while. As technology progress into something better and allow, the hi-res file becomes a closer to the original material.

by dixchen Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:07 pm

carz wrote:CD has the disadvantage in that it is brickwalled at 20Khz and so you lose something. Maybe that accounts for what Dixchen described as the "Vinyl 'correctness'.

And also in order to playback what's left "correctly", you need a VERY VERY good DAC with ultra-low jitter in order to come close to Analog TT (which has no jitter to contend with)

Dixchen: what TT setup and phonostage are you using ? What CD Transport are you using with your TDA1541A DAC ?

Modified grease bearing schedule 1 Garrard 301 with a Thomas Schick 12" transcription tonearm, coupled to a Bayer Dynamics SUT with Don Garber's Fi Y phono stage.

With my digital rig I was using a modified C.E.C TL 1 together with a VSE UBER super clock ( I call this the ani thesis of jitter! ) running through a DCS Purcell upsampler before running it to the custom tube output TDA 1541A dac. Listening was done on 24/88khz, could go up to 24/96khz but found 88 sounding more ' original ' probably due to the fact that it is a direct multiple of the original redbook 44.1khz sample. But I later found out the sound improvement it made was not entirely due to the sample frequency itself, more of the use of DCS's proprietry digital filters giving an analogue like ( I have to use the word ' like ' from now after hearing true analogue ) presentation from cd playback.

It wasn't the fact that there were ' missing ' information in digital that I hear, ( though I did find lots more information though vinyl ) but more of how everything we hear through it has already been altered. And I'm not even talking about ordinary mediocre remastered cd's sold everywhere today, chinese made remastered hi fi cd's or XRCD's need not apply here, those sound horrendous!

I remember how buying cd's became more and more difficult for me as I was looking more at the mastering label and quality of the recording available making my choice of selection rather small and limited plus being very expensive. The average 50 dollar cd's just would not even make it!

Never thought I'd say this but this is perhaps why vinyl playback never reached extinction!

by JediSavant Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:56 pm

Hey hey! A Don Garber fan?? Cool!!... I'm still waiting on my Fi-X 2A3 integrated amplifier!!!!

by dixchen Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:01 pm

Waited 6 months for it to complete leh... Wink

by JediSavant Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:26 pm

Which cart are you running through the SUT and Yph?

Care to give a short comparison with any previous phono stage you were using?

by lewce1 Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:31 pm

The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

Then you can hear the charm and beauty of LPs!

If you don't meet the above, best forget about it as you will end up being a slave to it. "play LP but sound like CD - what for". Somemore new LPs cost so much more than CDs. 1 LP = 3-5 CDs. Collector items....you imagine lah !

by JediSavant Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:34 pm

Why do turntables have to be matched with yesteryear's equipment?

In case you've been living in a cave, or been out feeding non-existent cows, turntables are still being produced, to be played on contemporary equipment, which in their totality sound nothing like CDs...

by mugenfoo Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:18 pm

lewce1 wrote:The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

Then you can hear the charm and beauty of LPs!

If you don't meet the above, best forget about it as you will end up being a slave to it. "play LP but sound like CD - what for". Somemore new LPs cost so much more than CDs. 1 LP = 3-5 CDs. Collector items....you imagine lah !

If you're going on purely a cost factor, CDs will lose out to (legit) downloads. iTunes sells them for 99cents a song. Try and beat that with any CD u can buy out there.

And there are many modern TT decks that are partnered with today's cutting edge equipment. If TT was so bad, top brands like FM Acoustics, Boulder & Nagra would not be making modern and current studio grade phono equipment for vinyl playback already. And if you are open-minded enough to explore further, top end phono cartridges are even capable of exceeding 100dB dynamic range thanks to today's precision manufacturing techniques.

But a true music lover would not discrimate on whatever format.
I shall use the resident LS3/5a expert, none other than Jo Ki himself as example.

He plays LPs, CDs, HiRez files .... if a box of marbles could make beautiful music, he'd play those as well. (hats off to you, Jo Ki).

So lets not get too obsessed with whatever format or medium out there, after all, today's mediums whether digital or analogue , when used with decent equipment are more than capable of reproducing realistic, enjoyable and thoroughly satisfying music nevertheless .. and the most important thing at the end of the day is just "only the music".

by JediSavant Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:20 pm

How the hell did I end up with a -1 reputation?

by mugenfoo Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:28 pm

JediSavant wrote:How the hell did I end up with a -1 reputation?

ROTFLMAO !!! Laughing

(dun blame me ah ! i had nothing to do wif it ! )

by sflam Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:39 pm

lewce1 wrote:

The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

1) this is true. many older audiophiles still own LPs they bought decades ago. some younger audiophiles have inherited LPs and TTs from their parents.

2) this is not true. TTs can be matched with modern gear and many vinyl addicts do just that.

you must remember some companies never stopped making TTs even when CDs took over the market. Companies like Linn, Rega, Clearaudio, Well Tempered, Project, vpi, etc, never stopped making TTs. r & d continued even when CDs were in demand.

by lewce1 Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:06 pm

sflam wrote:
lewce1 wrote:

The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

1) this is true. many older audiophiles still own LPs they bought decades ago. some younger audiophiles have inherited LPs and TTs from their parents.

2) this is not true. TTs can be matched with modern gear and many vinyl addicts do just that.

you must remember some companies never stopped making TTs even when CDs took over the market. Companies like Linn, Rega, Clearaudio, Well Tempered, Project, vpi, etc, never stopped making TTs. r & d continued even when CDs were in demand.

But I really enjoy the older set up....LP12 playing Nat King Cole's When I Fall in Love....kow kow

by sflam Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:11 pm

lewce1 wrote:

But I really enjoy the older set up....LP12 playing Nat King Cole's When I Fall in Love....kow kow

i hv also enjoyed playing golden oldies on a Linn LP12 Majik (made in 2010 or 2011).

by lewce1 Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:15 am

JediSavant wrote:Why do turntables have to be matched with yesteryear's equipment?

In case you've been living in a cave, or been out feeding non-existent cows, turntables are still being produced, to be played on contemporary equipment, which in their totality sound nothing like CDs...

You seemed to live in a much darker cave.You have too shallow exposure to quality CDP.......take modern LPs and compare with modern CDs using modern gears.......Norah Jones "Come Away with Me" 200g LP Vs US Import CD, price ratio 3:1 then comment.

Not forgetting the inconvenience of LP format which I believe caveman is not tired of. Laughing

by lewce1 Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:31 am

mugenfoo wrote:
lewce1 wrote:The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

Then you can hear the charm and beauty of LPs!

If you don't meet the above, best forget about it as you will end up being a slave to it. "play LP but sound like CD - what for". Somemore new LPs cost so much more than CDs. 1 LP = 3-5 CDs. Collector items....you imagine lah !

If you're going on purely a cost factor, CDs will lose out to (legit) downloads. iTunes sells them for 99cents a song. Try and beat that with any CD u can buy out there.

And there are many modern TT decks that are partnered with today's cutting edge equipment. If TT was so bad, top brands like FM Acoustics, Boulder & Nagra would not be making modern and current studio grade phono equipment for vinyl playback already. And if you are open-minded enough to explore further, top end phono cartridges are even capable of exceeding 100dB dynamic range thanks to today's precision manufacturing techniques.

But a true music lover would not discrimate on whatever format.
I shall use the resident LS3/5a expert, none other than Jo Ki himself as example.

He plays LPs, CDs, HiRez files .... if a box of marbles could make beautiful music, he'd play those as well. (hats off to you, Jo Ki).

So lets not get too obsessed with whatever format or medium out there, after all, today's mediums whether digital or analogue , when used with decent equipment are more than capable of reproducing realistic, enjoyable and thoroughly satisfying music nevertheless .. and the most important thing at the end of the day is just "only the music".

1) I only compare new LP Vs new CD. Anyway NDX is in my next shopping list.

2) Commercial interest $$$

3) I don't discriminate format as I know LP is superior especially on classic / older recordings.

4) I knew Jo Ki when he was playing Mission Cyrus 2....but now wah lau!!! Shocked

5) Agreed fully.

by **WongKN** Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:39 am

Important Interruption :

I can see the beginning of insults in this thread. So I am calling for it to stop before it really gets started. It is perfectly fine to disagree and to argue with each other, no two persons can have perfectly identical opinions. But there is no need to be abusive when arguing. So please respect the other person and have basic courtesy when you put a counter point across. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

by lewce1 Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:42 am

sflam wrote:
lewce1 wrote:

But I really enjoy the older set up....LP12 playing Nat King Cole's When I Fall in Love....kow kow

i hv also enjoyed playing golden oldies on a Linn LP12 Majik (made in 2010 or 2011).

Linn Majik a.k.a. the best "CDP" ever made by Linn, that's why they stop producing CDP altogether.....Just kidding, no offence.

by lewce1 Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:51 am

WongKN wrote:Important Interruption :

I can see the beginning of insults in this thread. So I am calling for it to stop before it really gets started. It is perfectly fine to disagree and to argue with each other, no two persons can have perfectly identical opinions. But there is no need to be abusive when arguing. So please respect the other person and have basic courtesy when you put a counter point across. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Noted. Mr Moderator. My apologies.

by JediSavant Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:58 am

lewce1 wrote:
JediSavant wrote:Why do turntables have to be matched with yesteryear's equipment?

In case you've been living in a cave, or been out feeding non-existent cows, turntables are still being produced, to be played on contemporary equipment, which in their totality sound nothing like CDs...

You seemed to live in a much darker cave.You have too shallow exposure to quality CDP.......take modern LPs and compare with modern CDs using modern gears.......Norah Jones "Come Away with Me" 200g LP Vs US Import CD, price ratio 3:1 then comment.

Not forgetting the inconvenience of LP format which I believe caveman is not tired of.

there are several subjective judgements made here which point to an ego-centric mind at work, which of course is in stark contrast to proper wit and irony that takes into account contemporary current affairs in an attempt to gibe another person in a humorous fashion.

price is an issue of course, but then again it's simply a matter of relative demand and rarity. there are more CDs made than vinyl records, such is the fact which no one disputes, but hardly does it form the basis for a sweeping judgement of quality and the relative merits and de-merits of an individual's choice.

by **elhefe** Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:57 am

lewce1 wrote:The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

Then you can hear the charm and beauty of LPs!

If you don't meet the above, best forget about it as you will end up being a slave to it. "play LP but sound like CD - what for". Somemore new LPs cost so much more than CDs. 1 LP = 3-5 CDs. Collector items....you imagine lah !

Ahhhhhh not entirely true....I can say that I am a new breed of people...as I am not from either of the categories above..

My kit are 2010 to 2011 designs....and I did not inherite any LPs from my late father...

Investment into LP was purely because of superior sound than CD...Did I stop using CD then???? NO....it is still a big integral part of hifi.

by lewce1 Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:09 am

elhefe wrote:
lewce1 wrote:The only logic I can think of for playing LP:

1) Inherited / readily owned large collection of original LPs of yesteryears.

2) Matching with yesteryears hifi gears

Then you can hear the charm and beauty of LPs!

If you don't meet the above, best forget about it as you will end up being a slave to it. "play LP but sound like CD - what for". Somemore new LPs cost so much more than CDs. 1 LP = 3-5 CDs. Collector items....you imagine lah !

Ahhhhhh not entirely true....I can say that I am a new breed of people...as I am not from either of the categories above..

My kit are 2010 to 2011 designs....and I did not inherite any LPs from my late father...

Investment into LP was purely because of superior sound than CD...Did I stop using CD then???? NO....it is still a big integral part of hifi.

If you have large collection of CDs, the logical move is to maximize the playback format.

by **elhefe** Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:30 am

lewce1 wrote:

If you have large collection of CDs, the logical move is to maximize the playback format.

I do...over 2000 pieces.... to my ears, I already maximised the playback format...from hardware to utilisation....

I prefer not to put logic in enjoying music....if not, it will becomes similar to a job.....

by lewce1 Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:19 pm

elhefe wrote:
lewce1 wrote:

If you have large collection of CDs, the logical move is to maximize the playback format.

I do...over 2000 pieces.... to my ears, I already maximised the playback format...from hardware to utilisation....

I prefer not to put logic in enjoying music....if not, it will becomes similar to a job.....

Very bold move indeed. After owning over 2,000 CDs only realized LP sounded more superior! Phew, what a news!

Well good luck to you.

by dixchen Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:28 pm

[quote="lewce1"]

elhefe wrote:
lewce1 wrote:

If you have large collection of CDs, the logical move is to maximize the playback format.

I do...over 2000 pieces.... to my ears, I already maximised the playback format...from hardware to utilisation....

I prefer not to put logic in enjoying music....if not, it will becomes similar to a

Very bold move indeed. After owning over 2,000 CDs only realized LP sounded more superior! Phew, what a news!

Well good luck to you.

Am sure everybody knows clearly that's not what he meant here, one way or the other for those who has not gotten a chance to listen will eventually agree when he touches the black disc one day Twisted Evil

by **elhefe** Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:43 pm

lewce1 wrote:
elhefe wrote:
lewce1 wrote:

If you have large collection of CDs, the logical move is to maximize the playback format.

I do...over 2000 pieces.... to my ears, I already maximised the playback format...from hardware to utilisation....

I prefer not to put logic in enjoying music....if not, it will becomes similar to a job.....

Very bold move indeed. After owning over 2,000 CDs only realized LP sounded more superior! Phew, what a news!

Well good luck to you.

No need luck lah to listen to music....just enjoy what you have. I realized LP has always been better than CD long time ago as while growing up, listening to my late father's LP on his vintage hifi....but due to several factors mainly laziness heheheheh but also financially, I stick to CDs for quite sometime....but now, have a little bit more free time and got some extra dough, now only can start getting into LP.

Heck, I was so lazy last time that even CD I feel is too cumbersome. Started to go into MD....then became lazier...and got into iPod....then got even lazier....put everything on a hard disk...and stream....

by **elhefe** Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:45 pm

[quote="dixchen"]

lewce1 wrote:
elhefe wrote:
lewce1 wrote:

If you have large collection of CDs, the logical move is to maximize the playback format.

I do...over 2000 pieces.... to my ears, I already maximised the playback format...from hardware to utilisation....

I prefer not to put logic in enjoying music....if not, it will becomes similar to a

Very bold move indeed. After owning over 2,000 CDs only realized LP sounded more superior! Phew, what a news!

Well good luck to you.

Am sure everybody knows clearly that's not what he meant here, one way or the other for those who has not gotten a chance to listen will eventually agree when he touches the black disc one day

evil evil.....black disc evil.... hehehehe....

by sflam Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:01 pm

lewce1 wrote:
Linn Majik a.k.a. the best "CDP" ever made by Linn, that's why they stop producing CDP altogether.....Just kidding, no offence.

lewce1, actually it's a question of whether one prefers the pre-cirkus or post-cirkus linn lp12 tts.
to some, the pre-cirkus bearing sounds warm; to others it sounds coloured and bloated.
to some, the cirkus bearing (introduced in 1993) sounds like 'cd'; to others it sounds neutral and clean.
when i met gilad, the son of ivor tiefenbrun (founder of linn) he told me that the new linns sound better than the old linns (in his opinion) but some diehards (even in UK) prefer the older linns.
it's a question of preference, i guess. personally i prefer the cirkus bearing sound.

by cmboy Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:39 pm

Sorry if this is a bit OT,

Sflam, to my personal experience and own practice, its NOT or never just the Cirkus kit that makes LP12 a single or most important lift. Linn have upgraded or improved other parts over the decades that contributed to sonic differences, better or worse to some ears, that remains to be heard.

However with more people buying used LP12's it'll come to a time where some common used made in the 20th century LP12 may not be in its original state or concur with its serial number, with itchibakside owners (like me too) upgrading or improving their rig with own sourced spares from another era. Even mine is progressively replaced with improved or newer parts, without Cirkus yet and I find it "just nice" for now. I haven't even mentioned about different tonearms preferred by owners apart from the standard Linn tonearms. Other arms happen to contribute to another sonic signature. Lastly, very careful consideration is in the selection for a compatible tonearm that works well with the LP12. Its not as convenient nor easy as "I like this tonearm verymuch, its so well reviewed, I can afford and buy it, I install it...Voila! HEAVENLY sound". Nope! not all works like that. Smile

BTW, I don't recommend buying used Cirkus kits. They're likely quite dated and cannot be quantified how worn it is and think its a great investment. Anyone wanting Cirkus kit, please buy NEW, nothing less.

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