Vintage vs modern speakers - what's your take?

[quote="mugenfoo"]

123_rocketman wrote:
Hi Mugenfoo,

Do you know (or have heard) of any single system that can handle all the genre that you stated above? If so, please enlighten us by stating the brand(s) and model(s) of the electronics, speakers, etc.

Regards.

Wouldn't you like to know [/quote]
Hello?? I thought that was my question to you.....

123_rocketman wrote:[quote="mugenfoo"]

123_rocketman wrote:
Hi Mugenfoo,

Do you know (or have heard) of any single system that can handle all the genre that you stated above? If so, please enlighten us by stating the brand(s) and model(s) of the electronics, speakers, etc.

Regards.

Wouldn't you like to know

Hello?? I thought that was my question to you.....
[/quote]


Exactly !

by mugenfoo Yesterday at 7:12 pm

"for once ... agree with you 100% on the above.

BTW,
I'm sure there are a couple of homes in the Klang Valley that hail such
all-rounder systems. As for commercial shops (ie hifi shops), I can
only think of one so far."


Meaning u always disagree with me? Only this time just once?!
Thanks for the consensus!

And you are only quite sure there are a couple of systems in the Klang valley that could do this feat! Meaning u have not heard them
b4?! I quote the above bcos I've come across many oledi lor!
And such systems are not generally made available for public viewings! If one have a chance to go listen, it may(different persons different learning curve lah!) 'turbo charged ' one's learning ability. Then again, the converse may occur: some not so strong souls may have their egoes deflated/ busted whichever may be the case! And could swear there are no differences between hi end, mid end and low end setups..........just the music if it moved him!!!

No, what i meant is that i am "sure" of these few systems ... the rest, i am "not sure" but this doesn't mean its a write-off that they are not superb all-rounders. I'm only stating on those that i am SURE OF. Comprende ?

And yeah ... so far, only the previous point u made , i find aggreable.

As for this recent one (like the rest so far), nicht nicht!

Isn't this fun fun fun !

I'm just curious, can I come listen to your setup? If it's not too much trouble? I could bring along Frankie Voon aka KL Doc(if u don't already know him) if u like. From your postings since I joined here, u seems to be the much learned one(You can disagree with this point if u like).


Then if u like, u can return a visit to my humble abbot to listen to my setup play Carmina Burana, follow by Gorillaz, the Dream of an Opera, some techno music, and so on and so on.....according to the list I gave if u like. Then I can bring u to a buddy's place nearby whose setup can also replay the same list! How about that? No need to bring ear plugs wan, guranteed your hearing will be as good as when u 1st started!

uncle_vic wrote:I'm just curious, can I come listen to your setup? If it's not too much trouble? I could bring along Frankie Voon aka KL Doc(if u don't already know him) if u like. From your postings since I joined here, u seems to be the much learned one(You can disagree with this point if u like).


Then if u like, u can return a visit to my humble abbot to listen to my setup play Carmina Burana, follow by Gorillaz, the Dream of an Opera, some techno music, and so on and so on.....according to the list I gave if u like. Then I can bring u to a buddy's place nearby whose setup can also replay the same list! How about that? No need to bring ear plugs wan, guranteed your hearing will be as good as when u 1st started!

Wow, very gracious of you & thats an interesting idea. But I 'm not keen on having strangers over at my place.

But i can bring my gear (aka my trusty KAV-300i + some accessories) over to your place ... if you're the type that likes to swap around and experiment with various equipment! .. Besides, young man (aka yours truly) could use some exercise too.

But pls don't say you wanna try your Duntech Sovereign/Thiel CS7/[fill in here] speakers with the KAV amp ya .... i think u get my point here.



Or hows about, we each nominate a hifi shop that we would consider to have the best "all rounder system". We can do a tour among hifi shops instead. Public and open to all.


BTW, if u happen to bump into Frankie anytime soon, do pass a message that the recently "revitalised" Pipit 1 mk2 + upgraded PS is playing along happily.

uncle_vic wrote: From your postings since I joined here, u seems to be the much learned one(You can disagree with this point if u like).

Really ? I never claimed that.... so ... BZZZZZZT. Disagree also !

Unfortunately, no, I'm not the type who likes to swap equipments to try out. Nor upgrade with buying and buying and trade in!!! No need to lug your KAV-300i over, I've everything I need. And I've them with me for more years that/than I can remember!


My fren with the Duntech oledi running with the Brystons. My last visit he is very happy.


I've yet to come across a hifi shop that has a "all rounder system" at least not in the last 20 years. Before this yes, but that was history oledi!! So I can't think of any.

I'll tell Frankie your pipit 1 mk2 has not being offered for sale in the open market yet! I'm waiting to listen to the special limited edition pipit reference that could have 3 or more tt plugged in at the same time and the user could choose whichever tt at the turn of a knob!


For the mean time, do enjoy the music!

itu lah , seems like alot of people are looking to buy a s/hand Pipit?
Even Frankie offered to buy it back if i decide to sell it.

So i told him, he'll be the first to know if i wanna sell it.

just my two sen...
to answer the question as to whether vintage speakers are better than modern speakers...and to answer the question about where to find an all-rounder killer system, i just heard the magico v2 speakers powered by soulution pre/power amps fed by a nagra cd player at audio image in pj.
the magico v2s (these r entry-level models, mind u) sound better than any vintage speakers and better than perhaps 95% of the speakers in the market now.
the entire system is the all-rounder killer system that we r all dreaming of owning.

Perhaps I could send out these cards,

sflam wrote:just my two sen...
to answer the question as to whether vintage speakers are better than modern speakers...and to answer the question about where to find an all-rounder killer system, i just heard the magico v2 speakers powered by soulution pre/power amps fed by a nagra cd player at audio image in pj.
the magico v2s (these r entry-level models, mind u) sound better than any vintage speakers and better than perhaps 95% of the speakers in the market now.
the entire system is the all-rounder killer system that we r all dreaming of owning.

Cool ... seems like we got an "Audio Image" proponent here .

@Uncle-vic ... what say you here?

Never thought that the Magico V2 is actually an entry-level model right until Adrian speaks about it.

Wah!!! sound interesting.............keep me posted then.

So what u fellas have in mind?

got anybody hear about audioliving ce-2a?

just my two sen...
to answer the question as to whether vintage speakers are better than modern speakers...and to answer the question about where to find an all-rounder killer system, i just heard the magico v2 speakers powered by soulution pre/power amps fed by a nagra cd player at audio image in pj.
the magico v2s (these r entry-level models, mind u) sound better than any vintage speakers and better than perhaps 95% of the speakers in the market now.
the entire system is the all-rounder killer system that we r all dreaming of owning

not agree. unless one has experience listen to all vintage stuff.you can't make conclusion just base on own experience, like saying goes "bila helang tatak, katak jadi raja". music taste is very subjective. I wonder how to quantify it betters 95% of speakers in market now. is baseless, if we "assume" thing will become ASS U and ME !

In my opinion, GOOD vintage speakers make a great choice for the few who still listen to music. For those who spend ANY time at all listening to copper, a well reviewed modern speaker would perhaps serve you better. Both are out there for you to choose from.

wabun wrote:

just my two sen...
to answer the question as to whether vintage speakers are better than modern speakers...and to answer the question about where to find an all-rounder killer system, i just heard the magico v2 speakers powered by soulution pre/power amps fed by a nagra cd player at audio image in pj.
the magico v2s (these r entry-level models, mind u) sound better than any vintage speakers and better than perhaps 95% of the speakers in the market now.
the entire system is the all-rounder killer system that we r all dreaming of owning

not agree. unless one has experience listen to all vintage stuff.you can't make conclusion just base on own experience, like saying goes "bila helang tatak, katak jadi raja". music taste is very subjective. I wonder how to quantify it betters 95% of speakers in market now. is baseless, if we "assume" thing will become ASS U and ME !

so when u free? .... lets go listen to the Magico V2 speaker ....

Actually, Vintage speakers or Modern Speakers both has the pros and cons.....
Some Vintage Speakers like Polk Audio manufactured in the 70's really produce sweet music played thru them....My friend have a pair of 3 way Polk Audio and he is not parting with it.....The " Surround " Paper or some rubberlike material along the edge of the Woofers has not degrade with time,,,,,,now over 30 years old. Unlike my JBL MR38, which I bought in the 2003 in which the paper " Surround " needs to be replaced on both Woofers. (Luckily got the spares !!!)
I am not looking down on Modern Speakers but nowadays most of those Factories are Relocated to country Not of their Origin anymore either.
But we do hope the Quality is still there as much as it is from the original country of manufacture. And nowaday, we also have the " Bulletproof " Carbon
fibre cones.....(But I still prefer Paper cone for more movement or excursion...)
And many enthusiast like the Horn Type Tweeter of the Vintage JBL.....

Many people look at vintage speaker lovers as either old fashioned or those who use it as an excuse becos they cannot afford modern expensive ones. What say you?

Cooltube wrote:Many people look at vintage speaker lovers as either old fashioned or those who use it as an excuse becos they cannot afford modern expensive ones. What say you?

Hi Cooltube

I am a GOOD vintage speaker lover. If there were indeed people who look at me as being old fashioned as you suggest, my answer to you is I couldnt give a toss. No ones opinion here or anywhere else of my preferences dictates my musical enjoyment!

As for suggesting that some prefer vintage speakers as they can't afford more modern ones, perhaps you might want to check out on ebay how much a pair of Tannoy Monitor 15 Golds cost. Or go to Quad Germany and look at the price of the new old Quad 57. I think you will quickly find out that the GOOD vintage speakers are bought on true merit, not by people out for a bargain.

My reply above might be misconstrued as harsh. It's in no way meant to be Cooltube. Just a direct reply to your question.

Regards

People or rather Hi Fi enthusiast having Vintage Amps and Vintage Speakers or
Vintage Gadgets owners doesn't mean he has no Modern Amp or Modern Speakers.
They collect Vintage Amps or Speakers mostly after reading and doing Research on the Items before Buying. Or for Nostalgia reasons - memories of the 70's.....I have a friend here who is over 50 years old and in his collection, he has an RM 30,000 Vintage Vincent Power Amps, Made in England B & W 602 and also England made Kef Speakers. All sound Fantastic..
Maybe you will also like to check out how much does a Macintosh
Vintage Amp sells in Singapore Echoloft buy / sell.
I like my Sansui Amps collection and are already considering Auditioning an AVI Integrated Amp on the recommendation of a very professional Hi Fi shop
Owner. Also kindly surf Germany's Vintage Hi Fi Webs.
I am adding this for general info......

yes, there are some really good vintage speakers no doubt about that.

But lets not get stuck in a time-capsule and close our ears and minds to modern designs. It would only be self-defeating and one is kidding no-one but him/herself only. Self-deceit is the most dangerous kind.

It is only natural that loudspeakers , just like anything else must and will improve over time due to advancement in technology (material sciences, CAD assistance, etc etc).


Just as its not wrong to admire a well designed Weber Carburetor from yesteryear, one must accept the fact that even the best carbies (Weber included) from days gone are no match for the precision, reliability & accuracy of today's basic electronic fuel injection/ignition systems.

Good analogy AH FOO! Cars! But some people get stuck to old gear because they have a sense of true purpose and purity or because they can't afford new modern stuff. Some people keep or hunt and maintain classic Alfas then rave about classic Merc Gullwings or Ferrari GTOs but can't afford them. I have my own opinion but I
would like to hear more reactions.

Cooltube wrote:Good analogy AH FOO! Cars! But some people get stuck to old gear because they have a sense of true purpose and purity or because they can't afford new modern stuff. Some people keep or hunt and maintain classic Alfas then rave about classic Merc Gullwings or Ferrari GTOs but can't afford them. I have my own opinion but I would like to hear more reactions.

Like i said ... its ok to like, cherish and even maintain old stuff. But don't expect a Ferrari Mundial or even a 308 or 328 (heck, or even a 348) to be able to smoke a modern day Evo or STI. That old Ferrari would get eaten alive instead. And some people just cannot accept such facts. Ego issues that their "old Ferrari" got whacked by by a modern Japanese 4-banger.

If they insist that their old gear is better than modern stuff (comparing within the same class that is) and becoz they can't afford the newer stuff, then this is just another sad case of "sour grapes".

There is no sense of "true purpose or purity" being attached to vintage stuff exclusively. A hi-fi loudspeaker 50 years ago and a hi-fi loudspeaker today still has the same purpose. They try to be as accurate as possible within the given parameters of budget and other design constraints. But comparing like with like, it is highly unlikely that old technology/designs be "better" than current day equivalents.

Same goes for hifi gear like turntables and cartridges. There are some that still swear by this very iconic TT brand (sure anyone can guess it) and close their minds off to newer designs. As even for turntables, there has been tremendous amount of improvement in design and materials engineering. For example, stuff such as bearing tolerances, new tonearm designs and resonance optimisations in the plinth and tonearms , motor precision, etc etc all make a modern design superior than and model within the same price range (and adjusted for inflation over the years if one wants to be as accurate as possible).


heck, i love my Wharfedale Diamond III still. But i'm only kidding myself if i think it would sound better than a Diamond IX or X of today. My pair of Diamond V already has a very notable sonic improvement over the III, all else being equal.

Foo,
Ayoyo, you gonna touch a lot of hearts. Sense of purpose and purity. Cars are not about speed alone. Speed after all kills. You might overtake me in an ugly Evo or Subaru but I derive pleasure from driving my exquisitely maintained Alfa GTV. It's fast enough at sane speeds and not endanger me or anyone else on the road. It was built for style and true driving pleasure and after all these years is still cool. A lot more people look at it any car park than a chicken rest-bewinged, fire-breathing, farting Japmobile.
But then it's a personal thing. So is audio gear Foo. If you like me listen to mostly oldies and classic jazz, older music recorded in the studio using old gear multi track reel to reel tapes, at best reproduced using acclaimed vintage stuff at home. Modern equipment will will just expose 'weaknesses' in the original recording or rather unnecessarily exaggerate certain signals and can sound weird, remastered or not. It's about musicality eventually, therefore my note on 'true purpose and purity'.
Btw Foo, there's been a few about turns. Just as they thought transistors would replace valves, now they came back in full force. New old stock valves most sought after. Ditto vinyl spinning Foo, CD was supposed to replace them ages ago, now you are spinning them yourself, mechanically using tiny stones to scratch into grooves to get music -just as I do then and now. And that tt you refer to Foo, that is a wonder of mechanical engineering.
And yes, I crave for a Ferrari GTO not a 430, one day soon hehe.
Cheers

mugenfoo wrote:

Like i said ... its ok to like, cherish and even maintain old stuff. But don't expect a Ferrari Mundial or even a 308 or 328 (heck, or even a 348) to be able to smoke a modern day Evo or STI. That old Ferrari would get eaten alive instead. And some people just cannot accept such facts. Ego issues that their "old Ferrari" got whacked by by a modern Japanese 4-banger.

If they insist that their old gear is better than modern stuff (comparing within the same class that is) and becoz they can't afford the newer stuff, then this is just another sad case of "sour grapes".

There is no sense of "true purpose or purity" being attached to vintage stuff exclusively. A hi-fi loudspeaker 50 years ago and a hi-fi loudspeaker today still has the same purpose. They try to be as accurate as possible within the given parameters of budget and other design constraints. But comparing like with like, it is highly unlikely that old technology/designs be "better" than current day equivalents.

Same goes for hifi gear like turntables and cartridges. There are some that still swear by this very iconic TT brand (sure anyone can guess it) and close their minds off to newer designs. As even for turntables, there has been tremendous amount of improvement in design and materials engineering. For example, stuff such as bearing tolerances, new tonearm designs and resonance optimisations in the plinth and tonearms , motor precision, etc etc all make a modern design superior than and model within the same price range (and adjusted for inflation over the years if one wants to be as accurate as possible).


heck, i love my Wharfedale Diamond III still. But i'm only kidding myself if i think it would sound better than a Diamond IX or X of today. My pair of Diamond V already has a very notable sonic improvement over the III, all else being equal.

Having had various Ferrari owning clients, my experience is actually somewhat different. I can say that most of them have a healthy respect for Japanese cars. Indeed some of them have a Skyline. Or two.

But as these enlightened Ferrari owners will tell you as do I, sure most all of the Japanese cars today have the edge in performance. You get a better result with the stopwatch everytime in the Skyline. Non of them have a problem with that. But in terms of sheer enjoyment, delight, smile on your face factor... the feeling alive part whilst driving... You get more of that in many of these comparatively slower, older & technically less advanced Ferraris.

My own experience having served clients with real money looking for a sports car is that whilst they can easily afford the most technologically advanced cars that have the highest levels of performance....they ocassionaly choose something else. There are other parameters that can stir ones soul equally so... No sour grapes here.

If technological progress is of such importance to your listening enjoyment and you need the best and latest and greatest... all the power to you!

But for some others, we don't need anymore fancy tech. We have generally had enough of this progress spiel ( media bombardment ) and we rather to opt out. It's not ignorance going on here. Its a form of enlightenment.

There are no sour grapes for the preference for GOOD vintage solutions.

If there's a hint of it, it seems to me to be the other way round....

Speaking of all the great Japanese progress.... I recall seing some Top Gear video where this Girl took two Evo's to an English race track to compare them. Maybe an Evo X vs an Evo 7. The older Evo 7 won...

Genuine progress is dependent upon how one defines it

Regards

Cooltube wrote:Good analogy AH FOO! Cars! But some people get stuck to old gear because they have a sense of true purpose and purity or because they can't afford new modern stuff. Some people keep or hunt and maintain classic Alfas then rave about classic Merc Gullwings or Ferrari GTOs but can't afford them. I have my own opinion but I
would like to hear more reactions.

Cooltube,
Dont ever look down or think low of people using Vintage stuff, mind you !!! Your second paragraph implies that we, the Vintage stuff owners dont have the money to buy modern Gear, is that what you are trying to say ? You are quite new here like myself and dont you know that there
are many Many Vintage Gadget owners here who are " Taukeys " ?
I am a " makan gaji " type (not a businnessmen) but I can afford an RM 10,000 Amp.....
Talking about Cars for examples........My son also " makan gaji"
(A respected Airline Pilot) but he also can afford an EVO 7 and even went
to Japan to meet the famous Japan GT Champion who also sometimes go to
KL to spend his holidays there............
I warn you to be very carefull with your words.........How much do you know about Vintage stuff ? Did you surf the Internet and do your research before blatanly making a comment ?
I am also working in an Airline and Travels alot.
Frankly speaking, here I say to people like you : WE ARE STILL WAY BEHIND
IN PLAYING MODERN HI FI STUFF............can you please surf google , Echoloft [buy/sell] Singapore and see for yourself what MODERN GEAR they used, trade or sell......and never did I come across a " Gossip " like yours.
I have followed this Forum (other Topic) and found out that some
particular member also like to Rave or Boast about all the Modern Gears he
has but as long as he dont over comment about other member, whether
he has the money, the " sour Grape " or bla...bla....bla....I wouldn't mind....
One more reminder, there are many many Vintage stuff user here in
this Forum so (they are also Loaded) ,think wise, and comment wisely.........we are not the " sour Grape " you know...........
This Forum is read worldwide so , dont think inside a Nutshell, think
Outside the Box.....

kowtim wrote:
Having had various Ferrari owning clients, my experience is actually somewhat different. I can say that most of them have a healthy respect for Japanese cars. Indeed some of them have a Skyline. Or two.

But as these enlightened Ferrari owners will tell you as do I, sure most all of the Japanese cars today have the edge in performance. You get a better result with the stopwatch everytime in the Skyline. Non of them have a problem with that. But in terms of sheer enjoyment, delight, smile on your face factor... the feeling alive part whilst driving... You get more of that in many of these comparatively slower, older & technically less advanced Ferraris.

My own experience having served clients with real money looking for a sports car is that whilst they can easily afford the most technologically advanced cars that have the highest levels of performance....they ocassionaly choose something else. There are other parameters that can stir ones soul equally so... No sour grapes here.

If technological progress is of such importance to your listening enjoyment and you need the best and latest and greatest... all the power to you!

But for some others, we don't need anymore fancy tech. We have generally had enough of this progress spiel ( media bombardment ) and we rather to opt out. It's not ignorance going on here. Its a form of enlightenment.

There are no sour grapes for the preference for GOOD vintage solutions.

If there's a hint of it, it seems to me to be the other way round....

Speaking of all the great Japanese progress.... I recall seing some Top Gear video where this Girl took two Evo's to an English race track to compare them. Maybe an Evo X vs an Evo 7. The older Evo 7 won...

Genuine progress is dependent upon how one defines it

Regards

Again, You're missing the point here if i may highlight.
The soft-values such as "soul", "feeling" , and other intrinsic yet unquantifiable merits are fine in their own right.

And I'm not taking the stand that owning or always chasing for cutting edge tech is the paramount requirement for audio enjoyment, lest one becomes nothing more than a consumer whore. Quite the opposite instead because all the unquantifiable but emotional touchy feely soft-values are part and parcel of HIFI as well.

However, it is the danger of falling into the self-denial trap of being stuck in yesteryears stuff while ignoring or denying that a superior product exists out there is the most sinister trap that is holding people back, Monetary or otherwise.

OK, congrats that you've chosen to isolate yourself from the technological rat-race, but just don't let it shut off one's mind to other new and exciting stuff. I wouldn't quite call it "enlightment" . More like "contendment". But lest this contendment leads to a proverbial certain amphibian in its own watery walled domain.

Ok, so the Evo VII is a better performer against an Evo X. But how about VII vs. VIII or the IX ? Granted, the Evo-X is sort of an aberration for now. Lets wait for the XI and see how it fairs.

355, 360, 430. Who's the top dog here ? Lets just stick to technological edge here and just leave "soulful enjoyment" out for a moment, (ok @kowtim, you can have the most fun ripping around in a Dino instead... no arguments here and whatever makes you happy.) Good, you're not the one to be afflicted by the "sour grapes" syndrome it seems. Happy for you.

On a side note, there are some fellow hifi enthusiasts who uptil today, do not know how to use email, do not know how that there exists such a thing called the "Internet" and its mountain of information. Of course, all present here are excluded (obviously). And why is that ? Not because they have some mental defect, but purely of their own attitude that they have shut themselves out from learning new things, exploring new horizons and are generally happy and contended in their comfort zone.

Hey, if this works for you .... go ahead, whatever makes u happy dude.

Same goes for the master mechanic who has perfected the fine art of carbie tuning but yet is unable to operate a laptop. How does he even begin to work on today's cars in which the first thing to do at the present day workshop would be to look for the diagnostic socket ?

Case study:
If you own a Lexus in Japan and bring it to a Lexus garage, the first thing they do is to escort you upstairs to the waiting room with a fine selection of cakes, Govida chocolates and an assortment of other refreshments. The next time the service consultant talks to you would be to inform you that your has been repaired, and would courteously enquire if the fault was this particular problem or not. If yes, your Lexus is done and you can be on your way. If not, THEN only they'll ask whats your complaint (and give a loaner car for the day, another Lexus for sure). And yes, more than half the time (conservatively) the Lexus folks would fix the cars without having to work a 2nd round on it. And no, I ain't making this up. In Japan, this is Lexus' S.O.P.


In a nutshell: It's ok to cherish/love/lust over vintage stuff, but just don't forget that the rest of the world moves on.

antaklugom wrote:
Cooltube,
Dont ever look down or think low of people using Vintage stuff, mind you !!! Your second paragraph implies that we, the Vintage stuff owners dont have the money to buy modern Gear, is that what you are trying to say ? You are quite new here like myself and dont you know that there
are many Many Vintage Gadget owners here who are " Taukeys " ?

(snipped for brevity)

Agree, don't look down on vintage stuff.

But also to the other end of the spectrum, lets not shut our minds off to new and exciting stuff as well.

Then whether to want to buy the latest bestest chun'derestest gadget is another point altogether. isn't it ?

mugenfoo wrote:[
Again, You're missing the point here if i may highlight.

Please, carry on highlighting this as much as you wish.
And if you believe it's I who am missing the point, that's fine....

I will leave it to the other members here to form their own conclusions on the matter. I hardly think you speak for the majority here...

Regards

Cooltube wrote:Foo,
Ayoyo, you gonna touch a lot of hearts. Sense of purpose and purity. Cars are not about speed alone. Speed after all kills. You might overtake me in an ugly Evo or Subaru but I derive pleasure from driving my exquisitely maintained Alfa GTV. It's fast enough at sane speeds and not endanger me or anyone else on the road. It was built for style and true driving pleasure and after all these years is still cool. A lot more people look at it any car park than a chicken rest-bewinged, fire-breathing, farting Japmobile.
But then it's a personal thing. So is audio gear Foo. If you like me listen to mostly oldies and classic jazz, older music recorded in the studio using old gear multi track reel to reel tapes, at best reproduced using acclaimed vintage stuff at home. Modern equipment will will just expose 'weaknesses' in the original recording or rather unnecessarily exaggerate certain signals and can sound weird, remastered or not. It's about musicality eventually, therefore my note on 'true purpose and purity'.
Btw Foo, there's been a few about turns. Just as they thought transistors would replace valves, now they came back in full force. New old stock valves most sought after. Ditto vinyl spinning Foo, CD was supposed to replace them ages ago, now you are spinning them yourself, mechanically using tiny stones to scratch into grooves to get music -just as I do then and now. And that tt you refer to Foo, that is a wonder of mechanical engineering.
And yes, I crave for a Ferrari GTO not a 430, one day soon hehe.
Cheers

Antak,
please read carefully before you tembak people la. Don't la be so sensitive. By the way I cannot understand half of what you're saying.

kowtim wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:[
Again, You're missing the point here if i may highlight.

Please, carry on highlighting this as much as you wish.
And if you believe it's I who am missing the point, that's fine....

I will leave it to the other members here to form their own conclusions on the matter. I hardly think you speak for the majority here...

Regards

Nah, ich dun think i speak for the majority. Why would I ? Not bothered really... I do this all for my own entertainment only. Same goes for all your points and whoever want to post their opinions/conclusions as well. It's all fun and games for me.

If its no longer fun for me to counter and answer back your points, i'd just stop and leave this forum. Last time i checked, No one is forcing me to read and post in the threads and replies here, and I DEFINITELY ain't getting paid for it either.


I dunno about you. But I'd quite enjoy your posts too. So don't stop just yet ya? ... this is FUN !

Cooltube wrote:

Cooltube wrote:Foo,
Ayoyo, you gonna touch a lot of hearts. Sense of purpose and purity. Cars are not about speed alone. Speed after all kills. You might overtake me in an ugly Evo or Subaru but I derive pleasure from driving my exquisitely maintained Alfa GTV. It's fast enough at sane speeds and not endanger me or anyone else on the road. It was built for style and true driving pleasure and after all these years is still cool. A lot more people look at it any car park than a chicken rest-bewinged, fire-breathing, farting Japmobile.
But then it's a personal thing. So is audio gear Foo. If you like me listen to mostly oldies and classic jazz, older music recorded in the studio using old gear multi track reel to reel tapes, at best reproduced using acclaimed vintage stuff at home. Modern equipment will will just expose 'weaknesses' in the original recording or rather unnecessarily exaggerate certain signals and can sound weird, remastered or not. It's about musicality eventually, therefore my note on 'true purpose and purity'.
Btw Foo, there's been a few about turns. Just as they thought transistors would replace valves, now they came back in full force. New old stock valves most sought after. Ditto vinyl spinning Foo, CD was supposed to replace them ages ago, now you are spinning them yourself, mechanically using tiny stones to scratch into grooves to get music -just as I do then and now. And that tt you refer to Foo, that is a wonder of mechanical engineering.
And yes, I crave for a Ferrari GTO not a 430, one day soon hehe.
Cheers

Antak,
please read carefully before you tembak people la. Don't la be so sensitive. By the way I cannot understand half of what you're saying.

How come your replies are in quotes ?

Anyways .. ... But can i ask you an honest question, would people giving your GTV preferential eye-candy treatment in the car park be a major factor in your enjoyment of the GTV ? I hope not dude.... you wanna drive it for whatever reasons personal to yourself right despite what people think of it right? .. And thats how people could prefer their vintage gear over modern fancy stuff. Nuff said.

Yes, cars are not about speed alone .. it's also about handling, lateral skipad figures, ride comfort, NVH, safety design, the bells and whistles that come with it, or maybe even that 8 speed tranny in the LS460L that might make you moist for whatever reason. Or for some, its that super sexy italian design styling (nevermind that the car will breakdown with clockwork precision every 6 months or so and end up spending more time on the garage lift than on asphalt ) Ok ok .. I'm sure u get the point.

Heck, i'm spinning vinyl only becoz CDs sound "not so good" in comparison. I sure loathe the chore that the needle needs to be brushed every so often, i got to sweep the LP surface before playing with that overpriced anti-static carbon bristle brush, that i got to be so careful when handling those big round black plates and the fear of dropping them , etc etc etc or even worse, god forbid should something accidentally happen to that fragile little protrusion at the end of the tonearm.

If i could get that "vinyl or better quality" sound with the convenience of the CD format (SACD perhaps? ) and the selection of software readily in that new superduper format, I have no sentimental attachment for the vinyl format in general save for a few old LPs as family heirloom and these could be priceless to me, but junk to the rest of the world.



BTW, there is no such thing as "true purpose and purity". You already said that whatnots are personal and so on and so forth right ? This is one MAJOR Motherhood statement right here. But it's ok ... Good entertainment for me still !

As for "about turns", i'm QUITE confident that the ol' Carburetor ain't gonna be making a comeback anytime soon (if ever) into everyday road vehicles.

Likewise, i don't think we'll be seeing passenger cars with tyres requiring inner tubes as well and tyre manufacturers don't really need to advertise their tyres as being "tubeless radials" anymore. Its a given.

So, don't hold your breath!

Foo,

The re-quote was for Antak.

No car park pleasure is additional to the whole ownership experience. Guess it's because I'm good looking too.
Lexus produces soulless car with no pedigree apparently. Great with the Americans, so what. And you can pick up newish second-hand ones for peanuts.

You'll stick to vinyl for a long time Foo, just let time decide.

Anyway it's great having someone like you around. I find your articles and advice on tt especially interesting.

Cheers

mugenfoo wrote:

Nah, ich dun think i speak for the majority. Why would I ? Not bothered really... I do this all for my own entertainment only. Same goes for all your points and whoever want to post their opinions/conclusions as well. It's all fun and games for me.

Thanks for the heads up that it's all just fun and games for you. The irrelevance ( to me ) of quite a few things you bring into this thread now begin to make more sense. Point taken.... its just fun and games for ya.

Out of curiosity, what would you say to those that actually take you seriously by way of purchasing equipment aligned to your suggestions?



Regards

kowtim wrote:
Thanks for the heads up that it's all just fun and games for you. The irrelevance ( to me ) of quite a few things you bring into this thread now begin to make more sense. Point taken.... its just fun and games for ya.

Out of curiosity, what would you say to those that actually take you seriously by way of purchasing equipment aligned to your suggestions?



Regards

Well, what can i say to that ? "Caveat Emptor" ?

If some of you'all here hold yourselves to some higher moral-audio standard like: "I must be a beacon of guiding light to all the hifi noobs here lest they stray away from this one true path of XXXX brand audio gear or YYYY theory of setting up the system to sound the best. All hail my self-righteous path to hi-fi nirvana"... Yeah, whatever.


Like i said before, I'm not getting paid anything for my rants and postings here. If people wanna take it to be the gospel truth, fine by me. Feel free to disagree too. And if it pisses people off, hey, no one is forcing them to read my posts either.

Some people are just too serious in this forum, they get all worked up for nothing. And then some go so far as to be the self-appointed thought-police in the threads, dishing out "personal lectures" and trying to correct people the errors of their ways. Whats the point in that? If they don't like what they see/read, then don't read it. No one's pointing a gun to their head and saying: "hey you, you must read thru all the threads here and post your 2-bit weeny replies even if its the last thing you do or your brains are going to be splattered all over the keyboard!". But of course, if one enjoys doing so ... oh, please do carry on...

So don't mind me ... its all entertainment to me either ways....

kowtim wrote:
Thanks for the heads up that it's all just fun and games for you. The irrelevance ( to me ) of quite a few things you bring into this thread now begin to make more sense. Point taken.... its just fun and games for ya.

Exactly ... there's no penalty for being "keluar daripada tajuk" here , unlike writing a karangan for SPM where the poor candidate will straightway get zero marks!

mugenfoo,
I have been reading your Hi Fi Technical Forum and seems you
are the " Top " and well versed person here.......But that aside, some of my
Friends commented to me either through Phone, sms or email that you talked
c--k sometimes , they said......
We are not reading or learning Shakespear's Literature or Poems
here......or on other Forum or Thread.........just direct Technical Terms.
I have sent two replies to you but I think the moderator has
censored it eventhough there is nothing bad there.......
And neither do I get paid to reply or contribute in this Forum.....
If I deviate in my reply, it is because the person or persons before me
deviate from the actual Topics.........

mugenfoo wrote:

Again, You're missing the point here if i may highlight.

OK, congrats that you've chosen to isolate yourself from the technological rat-race, but just don't let it shut off one's mind to other new and exciting stuff. I wouldn't quite call it "enlightment" . More like "contendment". But lest this contendment leads to a proverbial certain amphibian in its own watery walled domain.

Ok, so the Evo VII is a better performer against an Evo X. But how about VII vs. VIII or the IX ? Granted, the Evo-X is sort of an aberration for now. Lets wait for the XI and see how it fairs.

355, 360, 430. Who's the top dog here ? Lets just stick to technological edge here and just leave "soulful enjoyment" out for a moment, (ok @kowtim, you can have the most fun ripping around in a Dino instead... no arguments here and whatever makes you happy.) Good, you're not the one to be afflicted by the "sour grapes" syndrome it seems. Happy for you.

Hey, if this works for you .... go ahead, whatever makes u happy dude.

Same goes for the master mechanic who has perfected the fine art of carbie tuning but yet is unable to operate a laptop. How does he even begin to work on today's cars in which the first thing to do at the present day workshop would be to look for the diagnostic socket ?

Case study:
If you own a Lexus in Japan and bring it to a Lexus garage, the first thing they do is to escort you upstairs to the waiting room with a fine selection of cakes, Govida chocolates and an assortment of other refreshments. The next time the service consultant talks to you would be to inform you that your has been repaired, and would courteously enquire if the fault was this particular problem or not. If yes, your Lexus is done and you can be on your way. If not, THEN only they'll ask whats your complaint (and give a loaner car for the day, another Lexus for sure). And yes, more than half the time (conservatively) the Lexus folks would fix the cars without having to work a 2nd round on it. And no, I ain't making this up. In Japan, this is Lexus' S.O.P.


In a nutshell: It's ok to cherish/love/lust over vintage stuff, but just don't forget that the rest of the world moves on.

Mugenfoo

I think chances are great that in the passing of some years you will become a truly great Malaysian. Your incredibly intelligent and have many good values. But you need to do some work on getting your arrogance in check.

Until you have personally met me, see what books I read in my library and see what I am working on, the ideas I have developed in my head etc... you are in absolutely no position to single out and negate my opinions by saying I have isolated myself technologically.

The nature of my inquiries into what true progress is, I strongly suspect, has been going on for much longer and at a level far deeper than yours.


Regards

kowtim wrote:
Mugenfoo

I think chances are great that in the passing of some years you will become a truly great Malaysian. Your incredibly intelligent and have many good values. But you need to do some work on getting your arrogance in check.

Until you have personally met me, see what books I read in my library and see what I am working on, the ideas I have developed in my head etc... you are in absolutely no position to single out and negate my opinions by saying I have isolated myself technologically.

The nature of my inquiries into what true progress is, I strongly suspect, has been going on for much longer and at a level far deeper than yours.


Regards

Yup... thanks for the lecture. May i be so bold as to perceive that you're are kinda wayyy too serious and sensitive much about nothing. I didn't single you out that you have isolated yourself technologically. You concluded that yourself. Congratulations. So why so defensive ? I didn't pass any judgement on you, but you did that all on your own. Congratulations again.

It's ok , if you feel the need to justify with whatever books there are in your library or whatever projects on some scale of grandeur you might be cooking? Go ahead... wish u all the best and many successes whatever they may be.

Did i strike a nerve on your end? This is a public forum. You gotta just chill dude. And I'm not posting stuff here to gain acceptance or popularity from you folks here, so... (hint hint!). If its really bad and offensive like getting personal or the like, have faith that mr. Moderator/hifi4sale will nuke it.

Much as i also find your replies most enjoyable.

antaklugom wrote:mugenfoo,
I have been reading your Hi Fi Technical Forum and seems you
are the " Top " and well versed person here.......But that aside, some of my
Friends commented to me either through Phone, sms or email that you talked
c--k sometimes , they said......
We are not reading or learning Shakespear's Literature or Poems
here......or on other Forum or Thread.........just direct Technical Terms.
I have sent two replies to you but I think the moderator has
censored it eventhough there is nothing bad there.......
And neither do I get paid to reply or contribute in this Forum.....
If I deviate in my reply, it is because the person or persons before me
deviate from the actual Topics.........

Actually, since there is alot of room for mis-interpretations and mis-understandings ...here's a hint. Just take it that i am talking c0ck all the time. This way, sure safe then !

I've been given plenty of labels here, arrogant, one-man concert, loudmouth (although its mainly key-strokes actually) etc etc etc ... doesn't bother me one bit. I'm cool with it. I kinda enjoy it too. So cheers!

Some people come to forums and yearn for total acceptance by everyone else. Nope, not me ... just take me to be the antithesis of the above. And besides .. i'm a nobody actually. Its you guys' responses to my silly postings that forms the other-side and defines my reputation here. So here's a big THANK YOU the the ones out there. You know who you are. Takes 2 to tango.

I see so many flame wars especially the recent one in the Sansui thread, and i'm just thinking... unless these guys are really having fun going at it, Why get stressed over "perceived animosities" ? You get paid at work/business to deal with stress... cool. But in here (i.e. hifi4sale) it should be all fun and games; Nothing more nothing les (at least for me). For those of you reading all these silently and find my posts entertaining even at my own (perceived) expense ( like who is this arrogant mugenfoo who talks c0ck about this and that) ... no problem! Glad to be of service for your reading pleasure/entertainment/enjoyment.

It has even come to my attention that some forummers are bitching about me to the moderators and such. Whiny cry-babies... feel sorry for them!


Another example, @antaklugom has mentioned that from my technical posts i'm the "top" ... whatever it means? Me well-versed ? OK, if some of u guys think so ... no problem, Thats what some of u folks think of me. I'm easy either-ways and i have no control over what some could label as such, nor am i taken-in or taken-aback by it. (am i suppose to feel happy over this? just as am i suppose to feel offended when i'm labelled as loudmouth, one-man concert and arrogant?)

I really don't know nuts about anything actually. As mentioned earlier, just take it that i'm talking c0ck all the time and all's well.

here let's give that well-versed label to @kowtim instead, he's the one with the super library of books, and working on some brain crunching projects and also understanding yaddiyaddiyada on technology on a far deeper level than i could possibly ever hope to understand.. Perhaps he's working on quantum mechanics or string-theories relating to the ultimate sonic reproduction method or something to that effect... (ok, see, i'm talking c0ck here again.) But you get the idea....

But its part & parcel of what makes this forum real colourful and interesting huh ?

mugenfoo wrote:

Yup... thanks for the lecture. May i be so bold as to perceive that you're are kinda wayyy too serious and sensitive much about nothing. I didn't single you out that you have isolated yourself technologically. You concluded that yourself. Congratulations. So why so defensive ? I didn't pass any judgement on you, but you did that all on your own. Congratulations again.

It's ok , if you feel the need to justify with whatever books there are in your library or whatever projects on some scale of grandeur you might be cooking? Go ahead... wish u all the best and many successes whatever they may be.

Did i strike a nerve on your end? This is a public forum. You gotta just chill dude. And I'm not posting stuff here to gain acceptance or popularity from you folks here, so... (hint hint!). If its really bad and offensive like getting personal or the like, have faith that mr. Moderator/hifi4sale will nuke it.

Much as i also find your replies most enjoyable.

No, Mugen, your not hitting on any nerves. But after reading all your responses, my understanding is that you really care little about the true well being of folks on their audio journey here. I do find it sad that you misapply the obvious talents, intelligence
and intelect you have been graced with. Instead of applying it in ways
that could easily benefit many newbies in our community here, you use your skills here more for the benefit of self
grandeur, at least the way I see it.

And the times you go to far, or get cornered, you conveniently pull one from the stack of "you all take it so seriously" card out of your sleeve.

Perhaps you might want to consider that your comments are not as harmless ( to others ) as you think them to be...

If you wish to percieve I am way to serious, that's fine. Go right ahead! I'd say your right.

But is this a problem? Depends. For those who ocassionaly employ me as a freelancer to look after their interests in various matters, its a huge plus. And for those who know me well enough, I DO have a wicked sense of humor.

I personally think that on many a matter... your spot on and hit the nail right on the head. But this particular thread does you no favours. Although it's clear you think otherwise

Till the next thread that's of interests to us both

Regards

kowtim wrote:

No, Mugen, your not hitting on any nerves. But after reading all your responses, my understanding is that you really care little about the true well being of folks on their audio journey here. I do find it sad that you misapply the obvious talents, intelligence
and intelect you have been graced with. Instead of applying it in ways
that could easily benefit many newbies in our community here, you use your skills here more for the benefit of self
grandeur, at least the way I see it.

And the times you go to far, or get cornered, you conveniently pull one from the stack of "you all take it so seriously" card out of your sleeve.

Perhaps you might want to consider that your comments are not as harmless ( to others ) as you think them to be...

If you wish to percieve I am way to serious, that's fine. Go right ahead! I'd say your right.

But is this a problem? Depends. For those who ocassionaly employ me as a freelancer to look after their interests in various matters, its a huge plus. And for those who know me well enough, I DO have a wicked sense of humor.

I personally think that on many a matter... your spot on and hit the nail right on the head. But this particular thread does you no favours. Although it's clear you think otherwise

Till the next thread that's of interests to us both

Regards

you think u got me cornered or such? . I'm not bothered either. So who'se really cornerning who now? More like you're the one thats painting lines around yourself in the sand to suit your own "righteous" opinions/lectures.

My talents ? What talents ? And if they're really my talents... then they're mine to mis-apply then (according to the gospel of @kowtim that is), So much so according also to your own self-righteousness. Go head, pass judgement all you want. I ain't bothered but more entertainment actually... so keep 'em coming. Good show ol' chap!
And you're right. I don't care. Do you have a problem with this?

Spoiler:

But hey, if being all so super serious makes you happy, pls do continue & go right ahead. You wanna be the grandmaster here to guide noobs or not-so-noob people here? Go right ahead. If u have this feeling to be looked up to, go right ahead... But you sure as heck ain't gonna control my posts. Post whatever replies you like. If i so choose to respond, its my choice.

And what grandeur are you even referring to here? This is a hifi forum for crying out loud. Not a "lets find a cure for cancer" global forum. Didn't know that people are looking for Gandeur in forums! This is a totally new and mind-blowing concept to me!

All threads that i so choose to involve myself in is neither for favour nor disfavour. Maybe It for some people to just show/gloat "i art holier than thou", So who's chasing the grandeur now? ahem ahem...

If you think i'm spot-on on many a thing, thats your conclusion alone. Again, doesn't mean jack to me ... (damn... repeating the same message is getting to be such a bore).

Nuff said.

Wow,
Enuf guys. Old gear new gear future gear, young men, middle aged men and old men. We all have our opinions and they're all subjective. I'm just as guilty for being batu api here for posting a topic for that inadvertently led people lambasting at each other. Though I'm kinda having a laugh here. Sorry.
As a lover and collector for old gear, I don't necessarily take sides. Just enjoy your music, your equipment and share our experience in a conducive way please.

On a different note.....

For those that like tweaking and cable swapping and mains conditioners and exploring the latest technologies and latest products and latest reviews, I respect your ways and wish you the best on your journey. We have little in common.

But if there are actually any members out there who do love vintage audio / old hifi, and dont buy in to the idea of endless cable swapping and tweaking etc etc, but just like to connect a vintage amp to a pair of good vintage speakers using good quality unbranded normal wires and just enjoy a gathering listening to music over good coffee... could you please send me a private message?

It would be nice to try and identify (in private) the few remaining ones, those who can relate to exactly what I am saying, as opposed to what some other members here clearly think on the matter. I trust we are the silent minority . I have brought in a couple of nice dark roast coffees... be happy to have any of you "real enthusiasts" over and make a cup for you

Regards

Cool down....cool down bros....both of you.....
BRAVO to kowtim.......In the meantime I find mugenfoo's replies more and more
amusing.........heh....heh....he.......(But hope not to the point of becoming a Clown.....excuse me bro.....)
When I try to bring out the Facts about Vintage Gears, or " Telling
my side of the Story " I was labelled " emptor Caveat " or ' Police "........(Indirectly of course) But it is because the replies by members Forummers
began to Deviate or Divert away from the real Topics or Issue.......
mugenfoo, when I mean Top, is nothing fishy but a real Top contributor with vast ideas (It seems) but then again, I dont want and dont
intend to bring in all that " Shakespearse plays paragraph, idioms and all those
Lawyers Term that your seems to be familiar with.........
I go direct to the point.......I have never seen any international Forum
on Cars, Aircraft, Bikes and Hi Fi (where I am aslo a member) where members write very elaborate " piece of Literature " like yours !!! Never at the moment......
But than, again, maybe that is part and Parcel of the Game here......
Reporting you to the moderator ?......Not me !!! Why should I when we never
had a " heated argument " and Never to the point of Cursing.........
Having " War of Words " here doesn't tantamount to being Personal.......
No, not me either.....
Bro. kowtim, I believe what you say......many member Forummers here are
HIGHLY PROFESSIONALS and maybe MILLOINAIRES and they use Vintage Gears
as well as Modern Amps, so there is No way for people to look down on those
Vintage Gears collector or Users !!!
To Bro mugenfoo.......Nothing personal, sometime I find your threads very
very amusing and funny that I laugh by myself....heh....heh....heh.....
Bro. kowtim.....Dont worry.....We are not silent minority !!! There are many,
many of us in this Forum but are not daring enough to say out what we think....
Some of them even went to China Guangzhou " Flea Market " to purchase those Vintage Sansui and those people think that Vintage Hi Fi Hobby is Cheap ? Well its up to them !!! . We take it as a " Game "..........
Ok, I will Pm you these few days.......eventhough I am here across the
South China Sea, I have a house in KL and sometimes stays there.....
When I come, I will sms you and sit over a cup of coffee or Two..........

@antak ... Good for you that you can laugh and enjoy all my c0ck-talking here. If my own amusement also amuses you ... why not? All to gain, nothing to lose.

Only the ones who take it otherwise (or just seems to) get all worked up for nothing. But then again, what do i know, for they could be having even more fun at this than I am.

Congrats to @kowtim, one more member on your side! Bravo bravo applause applause! clapclapclappityclap.
Geez... someone feeling insecure hence the need to build a "majority" here or speak up for them? Silent or otherwise...?
Suggestion, You should go into politics! Do the reallife-community out there some good. You have my vote for sure!


To borrow a quote from the late (and very talented) Heath Ledger in the role of The Joker: "Why so serious?"
Adding on as well: "If you're good at something, never do it for free!".
Timeless wisdom here.... a moment of true enlightenment.

I dunno about you folks, but what i do here, i do it for "free". So obviously it can't be expected to be too good (at least by my standards, but what do anyone care right?) Oh, excuse me ... actually some do it seems, and hence thats why they take the time do give such lenghty lectures about needing to guide newbies or that my posts could be "dangerous". (This one, i like the best so far).


Wanna really know why i'm being exceptionally keyboard-happy today?

Spoiler:

So there you have it folks.

antaklugom wrote:
Reporting you to the moderator ?......Not me !!! Why should I when we never
had a " heated argument " and Never to the point of Cursing.........
Having " War of Words " here doesn't tantamount to being Personal.......
No, not me either.....

yah , i know it wasn't you .. i know who those whiny crybabies are as well. Maybe if they grow some kahones they can come post here too. But they don't and thats why they go complaining to mr.Moderator via PM instead. Boo hoo hoo.

Hi antaklugom

Yes... when your next over in KL, and you have a couple of hours to spare, do drop by for a coffee. I should still have some left... I brought in 6 kilos which is good for a couple of months

Do be warned though that I have perhaps the worst sounding or silliest hifi system in Malaysia! But the music, conversation and coffees good!

You and your friends are most welcome.

Regards