AC Power Bank
+2
Wikin
mthoi
6 posters
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AC Power Bank
I have been doing some research after Dr Who's very positive postings on Frank's Power Bank (FPB) for audio applications. I don't have a FPB and from what I understand from Dr Who's postings, FPB is using induction to store & reserve electrical energy for transient load increase. If I remember my college electronics, electrical energy can be stored using magnetic fields (i.e. coils/transformers) or chemical (i.e. capacitors).
Lately, I have been experimenting with using motor-run capacitors to in my DIY balanced power supply circuit. Thus far, the results has been quite positive - quieter background, better bass.
I am currently using a total of 4uf and would gradually increase the capacitance in the AC circuit over time. I am keen to find the optimal capacitance over a given power load. And the preferred brands of motor oil capacitors. I am currently using Siemens MKV 1500VAC, single pole capacitors, and have ordered several ASC 386, 440VAC caps for comparison.
I am keen to hear from fellow DIYer whom have embarked on similar projects. I am reachable via PM or email at mengtaihoi@gmail.com
Lately, I have been experimenting with using motor-run capacitors to in my DIY balanced power supply circuit. Thus far, the results has been quite positive - quieter background, better bass.
I am currently using a total of 4uf and would gradually increase the capacitance in the AC circuit over time. I am keen to find the optimal capacitance over a given power load. And the preferred brands of motor oil capacitors. I am currently using Siemens MKV 1500VAC, single pole capacitors, and have ordered several ASC 386, 440VAC caps for comparison.
I am keen to hear from fellow DIYer whom have embarked on similar projects. I am reachable via PM or email at mengtaihoi@gmail.com
mthoi- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 241
Age : 60
Location : Petaling Jaya
Registration date : 2009-02-26
Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz SAKI Pearl, Michell Gyro, Garrard 401, Lenco L75, Technics SL1200II
Amplification: c3g/F2a + C3m/300b PP biamp, 26 Preamp, 76 Preamp + 2A3/845, c3o/300b, Quad 34/606
Speakers: Harbeth SHL5, Altec A7 288-8G/1505B VOTT + JBL 2404H, Tyler Acoustics + Altec 288/Jabo Horns
Re: AC Power Bank
Interestingly I'm also about to add capacitance to my AC inlet. I've got a bulk of russian PIO 400v caps, around 22uf in total.
The perplexing thing about the Power Bank is that its inductance can actually degrade the ac power factor in the house.
Factories and power plants are actually trying hard to cure using capacitance:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/powfac.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
beats me why a poorer power factor can sound better...
cheers
The perplexing thing about the Power Bank is that its inductance can actually degrade the ac power factor in the house.
Factories and power plants are actually trying hard to cure using capacitance:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/powfac.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
beats me why a poorer power factor can sound better...
cheers
Wikin- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 439
Age : 47
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2009-03-05
Character sheet
Source(s): PC Audio
Amplification: Tri Amping Active
Speakers: High Eff Open Baffle
Re: AC Power Bank
Wikin,
It might be the balancing act between the downstream equipment connected to the mains versus the inductor from FPB. It might just so happens that the inductance in FPB corrects the mains that are connected to high power systems with tonnes of capacitance. One pulls the current ahead of the voltage and the other retracts it.
Ken
It might be the balancing act between the downstream equipment connected to the mains versus the inductor from FPB. It might just so happens that the inductance in FPB corrects the mains that are connected to high power systems with tonnes of capacitance. One pulls the current ahead of the voltage and the other retracts it.
Ken
Re: AC Power Bank
Yes agree with your POV Ken, it's surely a balancing act to get the power factor close to 1.0 for every home.
On a side note, while high powered hifi systems have high capacitance on their PSUs, they also have large power transformers. How does these 2 combine to affect the power factor is surely another unknown factor for most users.
Perhaps the final effect is that the capacitance effect take precedence over the inductance.
cheers
On a side note, while high powered hifi systems have high capacitance on their PSUs, they also have large power transformers. How does these 2 combine to affect the power factor is surely another unknown factor for most users.
Perhaps the final effect is that the capacitance effect take precedence over the inductance.
cheers
Wikin- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 439
Age : 47
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2009-03-05
Character sheet
Source(s): PC Audio
Amplification: Tri Amping Active
Speakers: High Eff Open Baffle
Re: AC Power Bank
Hi mthoi,
I build several of the Felix ac line filter from the Lab in audiocircle . seems to work well and is widely adopted by several other kaki in kuching
it is basically a common mode choke with several x2 caps on other side of the common mode choke. I use it for equipment with lower power requirements.
cheers
kp93300
I build several of the Felix ac line filter from the Lab in audiocircle . seems to work well and is widely adopted by several other kaki in kuching
it is basically a common mode choke with several x2 caps on other side of the common mode choke. I use it for equipment with lower power requirements.
cheers
kp93300
kp93300- Regular
- Number of posts : 98
Age : 67
Location : kuching
Registration date : 2009-07-20
Re: AC Power Bank
Wikin - really need a power analyzer to see what is the net effect of all those stuff connected on the mains.
kp9300/mthoi,
i built this and is quite effective.
http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/mains-filter.html
kp9300/mthoi,
i built this and is quite effective.
http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/mains-filter.html
Re: AC Power Bank
Dr Wong, Ken - tx for the feedbacks. I am in the midst of implementing AC filters into each of my tube amps, preamps and phono amps' power supply and do away with the AC filter at the balance transformer (pic).
I have included a pic of the balanced transformer with the Siemens MKV caps and filters. I have also got my hands on some industrial spec caps (siemens MKV) that I would like to try-out in the experiment.
I have included a pic of the balanced transformer with the Siemens MKV caps and filters. I have also got my hands on some industrial spec caps (siemens MKV) that I would like to try-out in the experiment.
mthoi- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 241
Age : 60
Location : Petaling Jaya
Registration date : 2009-02-26
Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz SAKI Pearl, Michell Gyro, Garrard 401, Lenco L75, Technics SL1200II
Amplification: c3g/F2a + C3m/300b PP biamp, 26 Preamp, 76 Preamp + 2A3/845, c3o/300b, Quad 34/606
Speakers: Harbeth SHL5, Altec A7 288-8G/1505B VOTT + JBL 2404H, Tyler Acoustics + Altec 288/Jabo Horns
Re: AC Power Bank
I agree with ken that experimentation with different combinations of caps and balance transformer is necessary to achieve the desire effect.
After all, this is diy !
After all, this is diy !
kp93300- Regular
- Number of posts : 98
Age : 67
Location : kuching
Registration date : 2009-07-20
Re: AC Power Bank
Gents,
I just want to highlight that motor run caps have a finite lifespan. When it fails - ugly. It will take years but it will happen.
If u are into DIY you will recall more than 10 years ago TNT audio had an article on DIY parallel filters that one plugs into the socket next to the equipment. I made 2 of those & they served me for many years. One day also quite a few years ago, I smelled smoke coming from my hifi room. I thought one or all of my DIY equipment had gone up in flames. Turned out that it was the filter & specifically the cap. Burned through the plastic enclosure I used & the smell ...ewww.
Regards,
Joe Ling
I just want to highlight that motor run caps have a finite lifespan. When it fails - ugly. It will take years but it will happen.
If u are into DIY you will recall more than 10 years ago TNT audio had an article on DIY parallel filters that one plugs into the socket next to the equipment. I made 2 of those & they served me for many years. One day also quite a few years ago, I smelled smoke coming from my hifi room. I thought one or all of my DIY equipment had gone up in flames. Turned out that it was the filter & specifically the cap. Burned through the plastic enclosure I used & the smell ...ewww.
Regards,
Joe Ling
joeling- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 369
Age : 51
Location : Malaysia
Registration date : 2009-06-25
Character sheet
Source(s): Aurender, Bergmann, AMR, DCS
Amplification: ARC
Speakers: ProAc
Re: AC Power Bank
this one
linky
joeling- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 369
Age : 51
Location : Malaysia
Registration date : 2009-06-25
Character sheet
Source(s): Aurender, Bergmann, AMR, DCS
Amplification: ARC
Speakers: ProAc
Re: AC Power Bank
Many years back I did something similar like your Joeling, and guess what - one fine day, when thunderstorm struck, the cap actually blew up and caught fire
Since that day I always unplug my hifi mains when not in use.
cheers
Since that day I always unplug my hifi mains when not in use.
cheers
Wikin- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 439
Age : 47
Location : Melbourne
Registration date : 2009-03-05
Character sheet
Source(s): PC Audio
Amplification: Tri Amping Active
Speakers: High Eff Open Baffle
Re: AC Power Bank
yup, agree with you all. unplug when not in use, no matter what! i don't like MOVs as they've a lifespan. after absorbing a certain amount of surges / energy, they will self destruct!
Re: AC Power Bank
I second the comment on MOV's and unplugging the system during lightning storms.
8 uf seems to be the value I am going to try next.
I am now experimenting with teflon FT3 caps (russian, 630vdc) in the PSU of the amp, and zobel networks (RC) on the transformer secondaries.
8 uf seems to be the value I am going to try next.
I am now experimenting with teflon FT3 caps (russian, 630vdc) in the PSU of the amp, and zobel networks (RC) on the transformer secondaries.
mthoi- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 241
Age : 60
Location : Petaling Jaya
Registration date : 2009-02-26
Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz SAKI Pearl, Michell Gyro, Garrard 401, Lenco L75, Technics SL1200II
Amplification: c3g/F2a + C3m/300b PP biamp, 26 Preamp, 76 Preamp + 2A3/845, c3o/300b, Quad 34/606
Speakers: Harbeth SHL5, Altec A7 288-8G/1505B VOTT + JBL 2404H, Tyler Acoustics + Altec 288/Jabo Horns
Re: AC Power Bank
Me too, been playing around with power factor correction device for some time now. Thanks for sharing of the danger of this stuff. My initial idea of this is to save electricity.. and even have it directly connect to main power switch for aircond. Luckily nothing did happen and I had it taken out already, as it seem to make no different in electricity bill! Ya I know, TNB does not incur cost for bad power factor correction.
But this thing done something to the hifi setup. It make the focus better, and background a bit quieter. No free lunch here, as it doesnt work in all setups.
Mine is a very simple 6uF 450VAC, resistor, and varistor, all run in parallel.
Yes, I do switch off the main fuse on the power to my setup whenever I leave the house.. I've done too many dangerous mods in my current setup~
But this thing done something to the hifi setup. It make the focus better, and background a bit quieter. No free lunch here, as it doesnt work in all setups.
Mine is a very simple 6uF 450VAC, resistor, and varistor, all run in parallel.
Yes, I do switch off the main fuse on the power to my setup whenever I leave the house.. I've done too many dangerous mods in my current setup~
adrian4454- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 722
Age : 46
Location : Melaka
Registration date : 2009-02-03
Re: AC Power Bank
Have a look at this site for a balanced power transformer project.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0
mthoi- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 241
Age : 60
Location : Petaling Jaya
Registration date : 2009-02-26
Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz SAKI Pearl, Michell Gyro, Garrard 401, Lenco L75, Technics SL1200II
Amplification: c3g/F2a + C3m/300b PP biamp, 26 Preamp, 76 Preamp + 2A3/845, c3o/300b, Quad 34/606
Speakers: Harbeth SHL5, Altec A7 288-8G/1505B VOTT + JBL 2404H, Tyler Acoustics + Altec 288/Jabo Horns
Re: AC Power Bank
Additional reading (lots on net but similar idea) on using passive and active filters for ac power.
http://web.ing.puc.cl/~power/paperspdf/dixon/37a.pdf
http://bulletin.pan.pl/(54-3)255.pdf
Basically, passive filters uses capacitors, inductors and resistors in zobel network for power correction, storage and filtration.
Has anyone tried DIY active AC filters for audio?
http://web.ing.puc.cl/~power/paperspdf/dixon/37a.pdf
http://bulletin.pan.pl/(54-3)255.pdf
Basically, passive filters uses capacitors, inductors and resistors in zobel network for power correction, storage and filtration.
Has anyone tried DIY active AC filters for audio?
mthoi- Frequent Contributor
- Number of posts : 241
Age : 60
Location : Petaling Jaya
Registration date : 2009-02-26
Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz SAKI Pearl, Michell Gyro, Garrard 401, Lenco L75, Technics SL1200II
Amplification: c3g/F2a + C3m/300b PP biamp, 26 Preamp, 76 Preamp + 2A3/845, c3o/300b, Quad 34/606
Speakers: Harbeth SHL5, Altec A7 288-8G/1505B VOTT + JBL 2404H, Tyler Acoustics + Altec 288/Jabo Horns
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