comparison between power conditioner / voltage stablizer

Recently bought a new amp to pair with my Harbeth after a long search. Next upgrade will be a power conditioner as the power supply at my housing area is terrible. The voltage is fairly stable ranging from 225-240v but i just feel that at certain night there's a lot of electrical noice and i hardly can listen to my hifi.

I am currently using RGPC pro 400 but this thing does not make much differences. Have tried ps audio upc 200, soundstage avr 1500 and use them in combinations before but all to no avail

Read about comparison in between different power conditioners available in malaysia in a local hifi blog. The power conditioners/AVR that were discussed are pure power 2000, richard gray substation, furutech daytona, torus (forgot the model) and ps audio power plant premier. As usual home testing is not possible for my situation. Just wonder anyone here has chance to make comparison between those supposely more superior power conditioners? What is your recommendations? Heard about locally made powertrans MVR. anyone here using it now? how is the unit compare to the more expensive imported power conditioner? really need your help here. thank you

PurePower 2000i is more suitable for you, use it combined with the 400Pro, your system overall sound is for sure better than many.

If you want noise-free sound, listen to your system merely powered by PurePower2000i battery mode.

skip Torus, overpriced, and PS Audio Premier, quality issue.

The thing is, power products can produce differing results in different areas. I use a purepower 1050i ... enough for my 400-watt power amp. I would have gone for the 2000i, but the purepower people said the 1050i was sufficient. You can email them with your gear list, they will give you a recommendation.

Yeah, PS has issues, it's been over a year since they sent out defective PPPs and recalled them ... and still no replacement in sight.

I can't give you A/B comparisons, but I've no regrets getting the purepower.

Before you go invest megabucks, I have something cheap and cheerful to recommend. You say you face electrical noise problem. Check out the Audioprism Quietline products. Removes noise while keeping dynamics intact.

LAndy...

where are these items sold ?

Sorry bro, not available in malaysia. Last time I bought from ebay but nowadays hard to come by. Distributor is in Singapore Shaw Tower. You want to start a sideline? bring in and sell? With the right promo this is a giantkiller product.

I think a AVR is completely different from a power conditioner! The new torus unit come as a power conditioner plus the avr facility. AVR stabilise the voltage whereas the power conditioner 'cleans' up the current passing thru it, so it's a completely different function altogether!!!! U can use a power conditioner to 'clean' up your current but it does not maintain your voltage at say 230v thru' out the listening session!!!!!

uncle vic is right ... conditioner and regulator are different things.

it's hard to find a good regulator, which is why the PurePower gets ahead, since it's an AC regenerator .. you can fix it for a constant 230V or 240V at 50Hz output. I've also found that using a quality conditioner after the PurePower can product surprising results, especially with source and preamp.

This is good info.

Agree with gentlemen above that PS Audio having QC issues. Bought my PP300 new from Singapore new 6-7 years ago. Now it's just a pile of heavy metal sitting in a corner (repaired twice already). Ironically, also bought another second hand one but still functionally normal.

Purepower is the way to go for now. Still working good after nearly a year.

Exactpower also difficult to service once u have problems with it. Mine has been sent to the dealer for repairs nearly 1 yer ago but still no news. Just communicated with them to have it sent back to me. i will send direct to USA as last resort .

bassraptor wrote:uncle vic is right ... conditioner and regulator are different things.

it's hard to find a good regulator, which is why the PurePower gets ahead, since it's an AC regenerator .. you can fix it for a constant 230V or 240V at 50Hz output. I've also found that using a quality conditioner after the PurePower can product surprising results, especially with source and preamp.

I know how you feel. Got a Mark Levinson No.37 beyond economical repair at my cousin's house and another ML No.390s at my late uncle's studio. Both these and your PP300 will make great boat anchors!

oh i see. so pure power is the hot stuff nowadays. i almost bought the ps audio if not for the high price by local dealer.

i see a big Manual voltage regulator used by a local hifi dealer name Powertrans. Anyone here has experience with it? how is it compare to others?

That's a balanced power transformer, you can control voltage yes, but it needs regular resetting depending on the incoming power. No filtering, though ...

I take it if its a choice between a power/line conditioner and a voltage stabilizer, the conditioner is a better choice?

Not necessarily ... not if the stabiliser is an AC regenerator ... but they're different things ...

IMO stabilizer is better choice for horrible voltage area. Equipts work with more ease when the voltage is stable. 225 to 240 is ok cos most of the hifi is rated as 220 to 240. But if can stable the voltage at, said 230v, really improve overall SQ.

Unless the electrical noise is from the main source, can eliminate it by re-connection all the reachable wire connection points, eg: resolder, re-trim the wire end, wire layout, etc.

Tried quietlines, good in cleaning electrical noise but it compress the dynamic and also darken the background. Sold. Most voltage filter or conditioner clean up the noise compromisse dynamic and deathen sound.

Purepower is very effecient pdt that regen the voltage and stable the voltage at the same time. Running cool. The battery can give cleaner voltage and also protect your hifi when power trip.

Cheers

Actually Powertrans comes in a few versions, plus it has been improved steadily over the years. The original Powertrans was built as a DIY project by an elderly audiophile who was a very experienced electrical contractor (he owns his own electrical engineering factory). It was modelled after the Tice Powerblock. Like the powerblock, its designed purely to convert the voltage to a desired level, i.e. depending on the input voltage (from TNB), we need to manually adjust a knob to correspond to that voltage (an input voltage meter is built in for convenience) and once set correctly, the output will be 240V.

Currently there are a few versions, three of them sold at Audio Image but I understand a few other dealers sells other versions as well, all from the same manufacturer. Some versions DO have a noise filter bult-in.

The way to select the model of Powertrans to use is to first determine the power requirement of your system, in this case, primarily the power amp(s). Most high-end manufacturers will specify the power rating for the supply to their power amp. Alternately, another way to determine would be to check the rating of the fuses of your power amp(s). E.g. Mark Levinson No 23.5 monoaural power amp has two fuses both rated at 8amps. This means the ML 23.5 will draw up to a max of 3.84 kW from the wall socket before the fuse blow. This can then be taken to be the required power specification to the amp for best performance. Krell for e.g. specifies this time in their owners manual. E.g. Krell KAS-2 owner manual specifies a requirement for 20Amps rating from a US (110V) outlet per monoblock. This means 2.2kW per monobloc or 4.4kW is required for the pair. It works the same way for other amps as well, e.g. Audiolab 8000M or Audio Research Classic 60 which requires 0.7kW and so forth.

Audio Image sells both 4kW and 8kW rated Powertrans for power amps and a Powertrans Junior for other equipement like preamp or CD players etc. Often it might be desirable to share a single Powertran, suitably rated, for the whole system, apparently (as I was told) to have a common earth/ground for noise suppresion purposes.

From just auditioning alone, with and without Powertran, the benefits of with is a clear sense of better control, especially of the lower frequency region (upper bass downwards) plus a more effortless dynamic range. Especially when an insufficiently rated Powertranis used (e.g. a 4kW used to power a pair of Krell KAS-2), the dynamics will be curtailed, much like a car that lacks power and won't go no matter how hard we press the throttle pedal.

Personally I am using a 4kW Powertran to power the system which uses the Audio Research pre-power. For this use, the 4kW unit is more than enough (maximum requirement does not even exceed 1kW). I find it great value for money though I have to caution that I have never compared it against those exotic brands like PurePower, etc.

This product also is a damn good Volt Stabilizer.
Made by a very famous Japanese company called PIVOT.

The product is called "RAIZIN VOLT STABILIZER".
But beware of fakes in the market!


What ? ... this is hifi forum ah ? ... oh ... ok , ignore the above then.

Pair your RGPC 400 Pro with a RG isolation product such as Pole Pig to form an IsoGray System. Plug all your power cords to the 400 Pro instead of amp to Pole Pig and other components to 400 Pro as recommended by RG. If your amp suck alot of power, then you may have to a higer isolation product, otherwise Pole Pig is enough.
My set-up is simple integrated tube amp + CDT/DAC and I find even only 400 Pro alone is already much better than direct plug to the wall in term of lower background, more lucid mid and tighter bass.

When calculating how much juice is needed when working with AC signals & power is that , its not a straightforward multiplication of just Amps X Voltage = Power.

You got to also account for "PowerFactor". And here's how it goes...
Volts X Amps X "Power Factor" = Watts.

If its just Volts X Amps, then its just "VA" (or KVA, K = 1000) .

Typical household electrical supply would have a PF of 0.6 to 0.8, no one knows unless u plug in a 2 channel oscilloscope to the wall socket and visually measure the phase difference between the Volt and Amp traces. the PF would be the cosine of the angle difference. For example: cos(0deg) = 1, cos(90deg)=0, cos(35deg)=0.82

If not mistaken, those PowerTrans boxes are rated in KVA and not in KWatts (KW).

Those examples below would best expressed in KVA instead of KWatts.

So a 4KVA powertrans for sure means that it CANNOT handle a 4KW power-amp load, unless the supplied AC is at PF=1 which is totally unlikely to ever happen in your home.

Some equipment mfgs provide Consumption Wattage ratings of their amps... like Wattage on standby, Wattage at idle, and Maximum wattage the equipment would ever suck from the mains before it blows a fuse or trips its ckt-breaker.

So to determine what "size" of a Power conditioner ... remember to always compare the same units (KVA-with-KVA or KW-with-KW), otherwise, the "KVA" figure will need to be "discounted" by the PF multiplier. A typical assumption would be 0.7 for household situations.

So if u know your power amp is gonna suck 4KW of juice, u better get a "PowerTrans" (or whatever brand conditioner) that is rated at 5.7KVA (using PF=0.7 for calculations)to be on the safe side.

(BTW, PF is a dimensionless unit and can never exceed "1", nor can it ever be below 0).

If PF ever got to 0 in the real world, this means that ZERO Power is being delivered to the load (aka the load is at a fully reactive mode and when expressed in mathematical real & imaginary {j} numbers).

For PF=1, this is the case for pure DC electricity, or when the AC volt & AC currents are exactly in phase with each other.

WongKN wrote:Actually Powertrans comes in a few versions, plus it has been improved steadily over the years. The original Powertrans was built as a DIY project by an elderly audiophile who was a very experienced electrical contractor (he owns his own electrical engineering factory). It was modelled after the Tice Powerblock. Like the powerblock, its designed purely to convert the voltage to a desired level, i.e. depending on the input voltage (from TNB), we need to manually adjust a knob to correspond to that voltage (an input voltage meter is built in for convenience) and once set correctly, the output will be 240V.

Currently there are a few versions, three of them sold at Audio Image but I understand a few other dealers sells other versions as well, all from the same manufacturer. Some versions DO have a noise filter bult-in.

The way to select the model of Powertrans to use is to first determine the power requirement of your system, in this case, primarily the power amp(s). Most high-end manufacturers will specify the power rating for the supply to their power amp. Alternately, another way to determine would be to check the rating of the fuses of your power amp(s). E.g. Mark Levinson No 23.5 monoaural power amp has two fuses both rated at 8amps. This means the ML 23.5 will draw up to a max of 3.84 kW from the wall socket before the fuse blow. This can then be taken to be the required power specification to the amp for best performance. Krell for e.g. specifies this time in their owners manual. E.g. Krell KAS-2 owner manual specifies a requirement for 20Amps rating from a US (110V) outlet per monoblock. This means 2.2kW per monobloc or 4.4kW is required for the pair. It works the same way for other amps as well, e.g. Audiolab 8000M or Audio Research Classic 60 which requires 0.7kW and so forth.

Audio Image sells both 4kW and 8kW rated Powertrans for power amps and a Powertrans Junior for other equipement like preamp or CD players etc. Often it might be desirable to share a single Powertran, suitably rated, for the whole system, apparently (as I was told) to have a common earth/ground for noise suppresion purposes.

From just auditioning alone, with and without Powertran, the benefits of with is a clear sense of better control, especially of the lower frequency region (upper bass downwards) plus a more effortless dynamic range. Especially when an insufficiently rated Powertranis used (e.g. a 4kW used to power a pair of Krell KAS-2), the dynamics will be curtailed, much like a car that lacks power and won't go no matter how hard we press the throttle pedal.

Personally I am using a 4kW Powertran to power the system which uses the Audio Research pre-power. For this use, the 4kW unit is more than enough (maximum requirement does not even exceed 1kW). I find it great value for money though I have to caution that I have never compared it against those exotic brands like PurePower, etc.

It is very good info for those who wants to really dwell into the topic and using the amp's rated power to calculate the current draw. Though I thought that for the lazy buggers like me, just use the rating of the fuse, because it is theoretically impossible to draw more current than what the fuse allows. For the lazy people like me lar.

hughesths,

When are you coming back to Sbn?
hehehehehehehe...