Electricity effects on hifi?

I believe regulator is more appropriate for electrical force and stabilizer is more for mechanical or physical nature. So it possibly more accurate to say voltage regulator rather than voltage stabilizer. There exist IC chips used in DC PSU circuitry that are appropriately called voltage regulator chips rather than voltage stabilizer chips.

a stabilizer stabilised the current - if its only 220v incoming, it works around 220v only plus or minus 0.5 - 1% . A regulator is different - if the regulator is set at 220 / 230 / 240v. at any incoming current 200v - 260v it will reproduce your selected voltage plus or minus 2% . a good regulator not only regulate the voltage but also prevent spike , clean and condition the supply. Helps to clean background noises. by the way please try not to place your amp on the rack top - it will sound bass loose . placed it as low down as possible n rest on solid tiles or glass it improved your sound.

I noticed that the latest posting has been deleted. Not sure why.

Anyway, its becoming quite confusing when we are mixing the terms current, voltage, power.

Can I ask in a different way with the answer to be either voltage, power or current? Maybe it will be easier for me to understand because I keep going back to my basic knowledge in electricity from univeristy days.

1. What causes an electrical appliance to blow?
2. What causes an amplifier to overheat?
3. What effects the sound quality?

jameschewmt wrote:by the way please try not to place your amp on the rack top - it will sound bass loose . placed it as low down as possible n rest on solid tiles or glass it improved your sound.

This is really new to me. Never knew amps should be at the bottom. I would have thought as long as it is on a dedicated hifi rack, regardless on which tier, it will still be good.

Whats the logic behind amp to be positioned at the bottom tier?

elhefe wrote:
1. What causes an electrical appliance to blow?
2. What causes an amplifier to overheat?
3. What effects the sound quality?

1. Most likely when the electrical appliance doesn't suck . It'll blow.
If it sucks, then it won't blow.

2. Electricity causes overheating. No electricity, no overheat. In fact, if no electricity, means no heat at all, unless you park the amplifier under the hot sun in daytime.

3. ...hard to say. What doesn't ?

Thanks mugen for yr reply but it doesnt help!

by elhefe Today at 12:14 pm

jameschewmt wrote:
by the way please try not to place your amp on the rack top - it will sound bass loose . placed it as low down as possible n rest on solid tiles or glass it improved your sound.

This is really new to me. Never knew amps should be at the bottom. I would have thought as long as it is on a dedicated hifi rack, regardless on which tier, it will still be good.

Whats the logic behind amp to be positioned at the bottom tier?

There is actually nothing wrong with placing yr amp on the top tier. and placing it on the bottom tier does not improve the sound.

as long as the platform is non-resonant the amp should perform well on the top tier or bottom tier.

the theory concerns microphonics - vibrations cause components to, well, vibrate and resonate which affect the performance.

according to wikipedia: "Microphonics describes the phenomenon where certain components in electronic devices transform mechanical vibrations into an undesired electrical signal (noise)."

this is more apparent when u use valves. that's why some people use special rings to prevent the glass tubes from vibrating.

so if the platform is solid and dull-sounding when knocked with yr knuckle - it need not be glass - like granite, marble, teak, rubber wood, acrylic, thick mdf, etc, it shld be ok.

i tested it with my krell power amp 200 class A , maybe my 80k + system sounded diff. the worst sound come from granite, wood , marble .

Thanks James for the explanation. Yes I am using glass base and steel frame for the rack.

For AV set up, I am using acacia wood rack.

jameschewmt wrote:i tested it with my krell power amp 200 class A , maybe my 80k + system sounded diff. the worst sound come from granite, wood , marble .

So how do u recommend to put your Krell 200 class A power amp 80K+ system? On glass, or tiles, or put directly on the floor to give best sound? How about the other equipment?

as for my system - ( please do your own trying too ) i rest my power amp on a crystal tile supported by ceramic golden cones on solid floor. others like cd - also on a crystal tiles supported by steel spike on my glass rack with solid steel stand. pre amp on the same glass rack with ceramic cones as support . my power supply soundstage and transparent PL mm power supply rest on tiles w spike as support. everything is not resting on my solid floor . speakers cables can play around w glass or ceramic for support. i really dont know about how it will sound on your system - but it did work on mine . as this a forum i honestly hope we can share our thoughts . no harm in experimenting. this i guess is the cheapest way . CHEERs

jameschewmt wrote: have used ps audio range / richard grey ( even their power station ) to little effect. i recommend you to use soundstage 5500 . it actually a monster power unit if you open up the inside . a monster brand sell for Rm 9500. this one half the price . i got lots of friends using it for years without failure even under thunderstorm - no kidding ! you can ask for a home audition - Jenny sure ok. theres also a little bro to 5500 and much more cheaper ( only for low power units ). the above mention ps + rg actually are more of conditioners rather than conditioners cum regulators. one thing good about the s 5500 is whether its a lightning strike or sudden power failure - it will auto on within 20 sec . after stabilizing the unit. Happy hunting

I believe the monster OEM is called the soundstage APS5500 about RM5.5k Entry level is the sounstage SAVR model, mid level is the SER model. Good stuff. Sold the shunyata after home audition.

Just a note about the Soundstage products, which I have used regularly over the past 3 years. They can sometimes make an audible clicking sound as the voltage is stabilised ... in a hi-fi set up, this may be distracting.

hi br@d you absolutely right - i didnt mention shunyata or even exact power from USA which i auditioned too . soundstage aps 55oo still better n cheaper . well for a slightly better sound , a little click once a while is most tolerable . Hee Hee

elhefe wrote:Thanks mugen for yr reply but it doesnt help!

there is some thots behind his statement beside the jokes.

I have heard for myself 1st stage Isotek, follow by RGPC 2 stage, and the 4th stage Purepower 2000. from the purepower, it is where all the power supply are tapped. extreme. the user likes it so much, unless the user dunno how to spend his money.

Jameschew, I am curious by what exactly you meant by 'crystal tiles'. Usually tiles are ceramic. Crystal can be quite expensive and a large power amp like the KSA200 will need a very thick and large tile and I think it is likely the tile itself will cost as much as a modest integrated amp !! I had thought you meant marble, or granite but ealier I think you did clearly indicate you tried them and you didn't like them. So if it is really crystal, what kind of crystal, what size, and how much did you pay for it ? You got it from one of those shops selling crystal ? This is actually the first time I heard someone trying a crystal tile to support a Krell power amp so I am quite curious....

Yup, I often wonder why 'crystal' often being brought out on and off in this hobby of ours. Unless James can get hold of large selenite crystals (gypsum) (in Mexico, they were found to be as big as 4 x 50 feet!!!, those tiles might be something else . Technically, the granite base he used before was an amalgam of crystal, quartz, pyroxenes, biotite, plagioclase ... bla, bla, bla.. sorry guys, am a geologist by training..

On this note, that is why more often than not, even during shows, I am a real skeptic on the 'affects' of crystals on sound we're hearing but I'll leave that out for the moment.

But I do remember when I did my training for a radiation cert it was related that a bomoh in Indonesia was using a 'warm' crystal or a piece rock from a volcano with 'healing power' which is actually heat from a higher (than normal) radioactive level. He eventually and a number of his patients died of cancer!!

So for those into crystals, rent a Geiger from your local (registered) radiation equipment supplier, just in case

Anyway, when it comes to power/electrical supply (and some of the voodoos) that comes with it, I am somewhat a devotee... Generally, it can be scientifically measured and explained ..


Cheers,

zb

If I may chip in here..

There are only one crystal tile available in the market. It came from China which can b easily identified with its superior shin & undistorted yet high quality reflective nature. The surfaces are said to be micr-crystal which is close to float glass level. I am not sure if this is what James is using? Or is he using porcelaine tile which gained popularity with imprint of natural surface colour transfer using digital silk screen technique.

The micro-crystal tile size is bigger than normal, 1200x1200mm. It is not a homogeneous crystal tile but bonded with a sub-base that looks like a mineral resin kind. Cost can match average cost of marble at >RM40 per sq. ft. I do not think James uses this because it is not possible to cut using diamond cutter.Only water jet.

You can get this at one of the shops in Jalan Ipoh, KL and I also found this in Ipoh, Perak for my hotel project in Cameron Highlands.

Jo Ki

zeebee wrote: ...On this note, that is why more often than not, even during shows, I am a real skeptic on the 'affects' of crystals on sound we're hear...

So for those into crystals, rent a Geiger from your local (registered) radiation equipment supplier, just in case

Anyway, when it comes to power/electrical supply (and some of the voodoos) that comes with it, I am somewhat a devotee... Generally, it can be scientifically measured and explained ..


Cheers,

zb

Hi ZB,

It is fine if you are sceptical to tweaks I use "in the show" (I believe you are referring this to me). That is why living a life is so great where there is room for everyone. Personally, I hold the believe that, for as long as we shall remain open minded, accepting our differences, we can all benefit from each other. People like me, need your kind to keep my feet on the ground.

If I may point this to you gently, do you know what precede scientific tools?

Do you think there is nothing left to uncovered electically?

Just to keep my reply on topic, I used TORUS AVR8A and I can never look back since.

When I shifted to my new house, I found a few of my vintage valve amp runs hotter than when in my previous house in USJ, seeing my valve glow pink is shocking to me. I found out that the incoming voltage swing is very high, close to 250V. I believe when equipment running hotter happened only when moved to a new house could be due to the voltage is on the high side.

Jo Ki

FYI, what James did is mucking about with resonance control, nothing to do with crystal's radiation.

jokiarch wrote:...
If I may point this to you gently, do you know what precede scientific tools?

Do you think there is nothing left to uncovered electically?...
Jo Ki

I am a skeptic as well. Maybe, the effects from the crystals are not to the sound but to our body. Like some people believe that salt lamp improves health, the crystals used by Jo Ki may affect us biologically and got nothing to do with the sound from the speakers.

Many here would swear that your speakers sound better in dimly lit room than a bright day light. Scientifically, the sound didn't change but our hearing senses peaked when our vision got impaired in low light. That's the reason why blinds hear better than most of us. Maybe, audiophiles excluded. Any thoughts?

jokiarch wrote:

FYI, what James did is mucking about with resonance control, nothing to do with crystal's radiation.

It can work both ways ... stuff like bases,boards, equipment racks or just placing on the bare floor can also add some resonance characteristics of their own into the equipment.

Sometimes it works for the better, sometimes for the worse, depending on the equipment being affected as well.

mugenfoo wrote:

jokiarch wrote:

FYI, what James did is mucking about with resonance control, nothing to do with crystal's radiation.

It can work both ways ... stuff like bases,boards, equipment racks or just placing on the bare floor can also add some resonance characteristics of their own into the equipment.

Sometimes it works for the better, sometimes for the worse, depending on the equipment being affected as well.

Yes, indeed, it works both ways. Thank you for your clarification on my earlier statement. You are more correctly said.

Perhaps I could say a bit more on this, besides resonance, there is also issue regarding its load paths which is related to its resonance/density charateristics - the matellurgy of things.

Jo Ki

let me clarified my crystal tiles is from china and it need to be cut by water jet n not diamond cutter. if you dont mind the measurement put the whole pc on.

Jameschew, I am indeed intrigued by this crystal tiles you are using. Where is the shop that you bought the tile from ? I would like to take a look at one (tile). They are expensive right ?

jokiarch wrote:

zeebee wrote: ...On this note, that is why more often than not, even during shows, I am a real skeptic on the 'affects' of crystals on sound we're hear...

So for those into crystals, rent a Geiger from your local (registered) radiation equipment supplier, just in case

Anyway, when it comes to power/electrical supply (and some of the voodoos) that comes with it, I am somewhat a devotee... Generally, it can be scientifically measured and explained ..


Cheers,

zb

Hi ZB,

It is fine if you are sceptical to tweaks I use "in the show" (I believe you are referring this to me). That is why living a life is so great where there is room for everyone. Personally, I hold the believe that, for as long as we shall remain open minded, accepting our differences, we can all benefit from each other. People like me, need your kind to keep my feet on the ground.

If I may point this to you gently, do you know what precede scientific tools?

Do you think there is nothing left to uncovered electically?

Just to keep my reply on topic, I used TORUS AVR8A and I can never look back since.

When I shifted to my new house, I found a few of my vintage valve amp runs hotter than when in my previous house in USJ, seeing my valve glow pink is shocking to me. I found out that the incoming voltage swing is very high, close to 250V. I believe when equipment running hotter happened only when moved to a new house could be due to the voltage is on the high side.

Jo Ki

FYI, what James did is mucking about with resonance control, nothing to do with crystal's radiation.

Jo Ki,

Sorry bro, didn't really see the whole kaboodle of comments that came in, busy entertaining all the guests for a Raya do. Actually while typing the comments above, I wasn't particularly referring (or thinking) to your set up during the show .., they're excellent (the whole set up speakers / amps/ accessories) to enjoy music. Was thinking more of shows I saw in HK or somewhere downunder and yep, I do remain a 'skeptic' (google a bit for the meaning, my Kamus Dewan is not up to speed) on crystals alone based on James comments. It is healthy for our mental health with some friendly banter

Anyway, fair enough mate, unfortunately I'm also not much into really measuring and stuff when it comes to enjoying the music.. ... And I do take a lighter note on comments on this forum... yep again mate, was joking about the radiation stuff (even though the event was real enough) and never thought that James was 'mucking' about radiation

Lighten up and hav a G'day mate and don't forget to enjoy the music too.. and hope get the thread back to 'power supply'.

Cheers,

zb

Hi ZB,

No worry bro. Like I had said, I am not offended by your statement at all, please do not feel bad about it. At the end of the day, we are all a big family who love music!

And Selamat Hari Raya to you and your love ones.

Back to power conditioner..

I have used more than 5 types of power conditioners in my hifi life so far, auditioned more than 4 along the way, but for the interest of the dealers, I shall keep their names out. My current power conditioner - Torus, much of the performance I have in the recent show was attributed to it. The main strength of Torus is its ability to eradicate whittish noise present in the sound signal. Music becomes alive and fresh.

Jo Ki

jokiarch wrote:

When I shifted to my new house, I found a few of my vintage valve amp runs hotter than when in my previous house in USJ, seeing my valve glow pink is shocking to me. I found out that the incoming voltage swing is very high, close to 250V. I believe when equipment running hotter happened only when moved to a new house could be due to the voltage is on the high side.

Jo Ki

A reply that is similar to my problem. So did you get a voltage stabilizer or regulator?

Why don't you measure one of your house's outlet with a multimeter and it will tell you the voltage...no more guessing!

elhefe wrote:

jokiarch wrote:

When I shifted to my new house, I found a few of my vintage valve amp runs hotter than when in my previous house in USJ, seeing my valve glow pink is shocking to me. I found out that the incoming voltage swing is very high, close to 250V. I believe when equipment running hotter happened only when moved to a new house could be due to the voltage is on the high side.

Jo Ki

A reply that is similar to my problem. So did you get a voltage stabilizer or regulator?

When I moved to my new house, I could not use my Sola Power Resonator Conditioner from Australia because the noise from the resonator was just too loud in a truly enclosed dedicated listening room. So I use Soundstage, which has built-in AVR with output regulated to 240V.

Later I added Torus 8A to work with my Soundstage. When Torus released the AVR 8A, I sold off my the Soundstage to make up thr additonal cost .

You need to measure the incoming voltage, I am fairly sure this could be your problem.

Jo Ki

also, different meters will read the house voltage differently.
Cheapo meters won't be accurate.

E.g. A Fluke "True RMS" meter will give a more precise voltage reading.

Best is to use a scope-meter and not only measure the voltage, but also see how bad are harmonics (deviation from true sine wave) in the incoming power supply. If really geeky, do a FFT reading and see which are the more prominent higher order harmonics. And while you're at it, also read the power factor and see how much is the current wave leading or trailing the voltage wave (cosine angle) with a Current probe.

There is much more to incoming power supply than just simply reading the "voltage" with a RM20 multimeter.

hi

consider this

[url=http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Channel-Portable-PC-USB-2-0-Oscillosn cope-CD-/270627075162?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3f02a1745a]http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Channel-Portable-PC-USB-2-0-Oscillosn cope-CD-/270627075162?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3f02a1745a[/url]

there is a USD 20 version for u to probe the incoming supply.

sometimes I hope to install 'efficiency' green device to have the current leading the voltage, so that my tnb meter can travel backwards.

I just measure the outlet this way. Enough to tell whether your location
supply voltage is OK or not....

nice fluke meter...

But u forgot another very important aspect.... whats the PF (power factor) of your wall supply ? If your current waveform is 90degrees off from your your voltage waveform ... you're pretty much paddling up sh!t-creek ... with no paddle!

whats the PF (power factor) of your wall supply ?

How do you measure PF of the wall supply?