Signal Flow -->

by dylan Wed May 26, 2010 10:42 am

I notice that on the Wireworld Stream speaker cable, there is signal flow --> direction label . shd we flow this, from amp to speaker??

I hav one is right direction and another reverse, but cant hear any different from both speaker.

by mugenfoo Wed May 26, 2010 6:08 pm

If u can't hear the difference, then just enjoy the music.

cable directionality might be critical and very obviously audible in some situations/systems, but completely inaudible in some other situations/systems.

But for those who are interested, a cable when measured under lab conditions, will have different capacitance & inductance measurements from different directions or ends (but depending on cable construction as well).

Based on the design criteria, usually the mfg would have known which is the optimum signal flow direction and mark it on the sleeves accordingly.

by sflam Wed May 26, 2010 11:09 pm

cable directionality is another controversial topic.

whether there is any difference in sound quality if you connect the cables the 'wrong' way is debatable.

some manufacturers print arrows on the jackets of their cables or interconnects. the arrow indicates the flow of signal from cd player to amp or from amp to speakers. if yr cables have the arrows, it is better to follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

this is especially so concerning interconnects. from what i understand some interconnects are designed with 'floating' ground which has the ground connected to source (cd player) only. thus if you connect it the opposite way, the ground may be connected to the amp which was not what the designer intended.

by tycham Wed May 26, 2010 11:21 pm

sflam wrote: from what i understand some interconnects are designed with 'floating' ground which has the ground connected to source (cd player) only. thus if you connect it the opposite way, the ground may be connected to the amp which was not what the designer intended.

You are right. Chord Company designed their interconnects as such.

by mugenfoo Wed May 26, 2010 11:45 pm

sflam wrote:

this is especially so concerning interconnects. from what i understand some interconnects are designed with 'floating' ground which has the ground connected to source (cd player) only. thus if you connect it the opposite way, the ground may be connected to the amp which was not what the designer intended.

This was championed by Monster Cable in their M-series interconnects back in the late 80s (circa Interlink-400 era).

Basically, terminating the cable shield at the source-end instead of amp end lowered the cable's capacitance quite significantly. This audibly resulted in a more detailed sonic presentation.

But there are instances where a faster drain at the expense of slightly higher capacitance is preferred in the case of high noise environments, and also certain types of record player phono links. A slight loss in detail is a small trade-off to the cables picking up a 50Hz hum from a nearby AC cord for example.
This Could also be a quick-fix for overly bright systems.

Same goes for shielded AC cords. Best to terminate the shield closest to true ground as much as possible.

But besides floating the earth/ground or otherwise, cables could sound different due to the connection polarities. One such example is the cable's twist configs (like Kimber Kable and XLO) in which they braid the + and - conductors in a certain manner. Flipping it around would severely disrupt the intended cable geometry (which perhaps alters the shielding effects, resulting in change in cable capacitances and/or inductances) and hence sounds different.

Then there's also a case of some cable makers saying that their XYZ material and some crystalline structure of the materials used, or some fancy method of manufacturing that gives rise to the notion that their cables sound better with the signal flowing this way vs the "wrong" way .. etc etc. How much truth is in there, or how far fatched is this ? Is really up to the individual or consumer to go have a listen and decide on it.

by sflam Thu May 27, 2010 12:49 am

there are some people who say there is a difference in sound quality when they reverse their cables (which are not braided and have no arrows on the jackets).

they claim it is due to a smoother flow of electrons when connected in one direction compared with a connection in the opposite direction.

personally, i hv used cables (without arrows on their jackets) connected in both directions (because i could not tell which is the amp or speaker side) and have not heard any difference.

by mugenfoo Thu May 27, 2010 12:58 am

That flow of electrons thingy is really a misnomer. Since audio signals are AC in nature, the electrons actually flow both ways; back and forth and also flowing equally on both the + and - conductors. But more likely would be the point of electrical excitation that would make certain conductors due to their crystalline structure flow better in one way than the other. Think of it like a Live vs. a Neutral contact in an AC mains lead, the Voltage on the Live line is driving the electrical excitation whereas the neutral line is as it says: "neutral" and being very close if not ideally the same as Ground reference.

Of course, one should not discount the other unknown variables such as connector couplings and the like. Maybe one type of RCA plug might fit better with some other RCA socket or vice versa....

Not forgetting that having the cables twist in a different way would mean that these cables would be prone to resonating differently (different mechanical stresses on the cables) and perhaps conductor microphony is a more plausible explanation on why some cables fitted in certain ways would sound differently.

by 123_rocketman Thu May 27, 2010 11:27 am

Guys, lets look at the manufacturing process of cables. To simplify, I believe they are drawn from a die and cut into lengths of 50, 100, or 200 metres or whatever length deemed economical by the manufacturer concerned.

The print is printed on the insulation with a computerised printer which you can input whatever information (including arrows) to be printed. Normally, this printer can print from beginning of message or in reverse sequence, ie, it can print HIFI4SALE.NET from left to right and vice-versa.

So, I believe the manufacturer would print the arrow to align with the direction of the cables being drawn. Then, just maybe (have to be careful here), some smart marketers turn this little print thingy into a hugh marketing tools to promote their cables.

Maybe the alignment with the direction of cables being drawn has positive effect on the sound? I for one cant tell the difference.

My 2 sen saja.

YMMV.

by wabun Thu May 27, 2010 12:18 pm

some manufacturer ( MIT example ) put some passive component to tweak L-C-R parameter in cable, so it MUST connected according to their specification..

by THT89 Fri May 28, 2010 10:59 am

123_rocketman wrote:Guys, lets look at the manufacturing process of cables. To simplify, I believe they are drawn from a die and cut into lengths of 50, 100, or 200 metres or whatever length deemed economical by the manufacturer concerned.

But some very fussy designer don't make it this way. Some years ago read about Shunyata Anaconda power cord that it only has one specific length, because they say that one is the "best" one, then hand made some more. I'm mot sure how true their research output is.

But, this one is not speaker cable lar.

by 123_rocketman Fri May 28, 2010 11:28 am

THT89 wrote:
123_rocketman wrote:Guys, lets look at the manufacturing process of cables. To simplify, I believe they are drawn from a die and cut into lengths of 50, 100, or 200 metres or whatever length deemed economical by the manufacturer concerned.

But some very fussy designer don't make it this way. Some years ago read about Shunyata Anaconda power cord that it only has one specific length, because they say that one is the "best" one, then hand made some more. I'm mot sure how true their research output is.

But, this one is not speaker cable lar.

Hmmm, not sure about the hand made part. IMHO, the CSA of the cable is important to yield consistent current/signal flow.It is difficult to achieve 100% consistent CSA even with machine and I certainly doubt very much hand made (if by that it means hand drawn) cable can yield better consistency.The shorter the length, the higher is the production costs as it incurs more labour, cutting, packaging, stocking etc. That's why they have the cables in roll form to save costs. Also, in FMCG, they have economy pack which is cheaper, in terms of RM per unit weight, than smaller pack.
YMMV

by mugenfoo Fri May 28, 2010 1:38 pm

what does "CSA of the cable" means?

CSA=?

by dylan Fri May 28, 2010 2:30 pm

cross-sectional area

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=280017

by mugenfoo Fri May 28, 2010 2:53 pm

thanks.

by mugenfoo Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:09 pm

Wireworld's take on cable directionality.

http://www.hifihenkes.de/ZUBEHOER/wireworld/info/wiwo_in_tech.pdf

Wireworld Article wrote:
The microstructure of copper and silver conductors is actually made up of individual grains. Unavoidable angular patterns in this grain structure cause cables to perform differently in both directions. Wireworld cables are manufactured utilizing a proprietary
Grain OptimizationTM process that specifically controls the grain structure of the metal toproduce the highest fidelity when the signal flows in the direction of the arrows printed onthe cable. For a demonstration of this feature, compare the sound of tracks 4 and 17 on the Cable Comparator Disc. Track 4 is Wireworld Atlantis 5 in the correct direction and track 17 is the same cable reversed.

Some other brands of audio interconnects are directional because their shields are only connected at one end of the cable. The shields in Wireworld cables are connected at both ends to provide superior isolation from noise.

by dylan Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:41 pm

thanks for the info. will keep the direction correct.

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