Risks of buying used gear

Wed 13-Oct-2010

RISK OF BUYING USED. When things are not going right, it’s easy to turn ones back and walk away. Not so with a reputable seller. He is in there for the long haul.

ONE SIDE OF THE COIN. I bought a used amp with a faulty remote control. The seller assured me he would fix it. That is one reputable seller on one side of the coin.

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN. Three days ago I bought a used pre/power combo amp. On day 2 the power amp went kaput. I wanted to send it back for repair. Oh Yes, I can hear you thinking aloud “Keep Dreaming”. That was what exactly happened. Ha…Ha…Ha…Ha… The seller won’t take my call. He walked away! That’s the other side of the coin.

CHOOSE SIDES. Which side of the coin are you on?

Your opinion on the risk of buying used please.

Regards,
KONG

That's always the risk of buying used gear.

The facts:
1 - Seller lies about condition of equipment but buyer has no way of knowing this. When gear breaks down soon after, seller wants nothing to do with it.
2. Seller is honest, equipment is in good condition, but by some coincidence or bad luck, breaks downs a few days later. Who to blame?
3. Seller is honest but buyer messes up the equipment and tries to lay the blame on seller. How would the seller know?


I myself was caught in situation 3 sometime ago. Chap bought a valve bass amp from me, all tested, working fine, condition mint ... two weeks later, calls to tell me the thing's broken down. I try to troubleshoot and realise he might have been messing with stuff he shouldn't have been, when he was cagey about answering my questions.

So I got a repairman who's my friend to check it out and bill me if necessary. Never heard from buyer after that. My friend said the guy had been messing with some stuff he shouldn't have been, causing the problem. My friend billed the buyer, who paid. Issue solved.

I truly sympathise with you. Although I don't think the seller is legally bound to fix it for you if there was no warranty period agreed upon, I do think that it is the "gentlemanly" thing to do, especially if the seller like CKWong who seems to be in the business of buying and selling used equipment. Frankly, I detest businessmen like this who only want to make a quick buck and do not think longer term.

Case in point... how CKWong deals with this can either make him a star or a villain... it's really his choice. Based on how he is dealing with the situation in not taking your call, personally I will avoid anything offered for sale by this seller with a ten foot pole from now on. But just imagine if he offered to fix it for you at his cost. Perhaps it may wipe out his profit on this one sale, or even end up costing him some money, but just imagine the goodwill that would be spread by word of mouth or otherwise if he were to do that.

Like I said... short term thinking. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not knowingly sell you a faulty item, but now that a problem has emerged soon after the transaction, I think he can handle this in a far better way. Shame on you CKWong!

Hi Kong,

I'm not too sure this thread has probably been beaten to death. Those who are long into this hobby would have known about the pros and cons of buying used items. There will be some bad experiences along the way but all is not gloomy as the buyer will eventually learn to be more alert and cautious in the long-run. I have had a fair share of bad buying experiences but have got wiser now.

Most of the time it depends on luck whether you've got yourself a bargain or a lemon when buying used. You would be little safer when buying from "good" 2nd hand dealers in the sense there may be some sort of compensation or replacement, or a full refund in the event the equipment is found to be faulty.

Most used equipment are usually tested at the seller's place and confirmed to be in good working condition by buyer himself at most times, and that is where the problem lies. When the equipment has exchanged hands and in use for several days(or even for one day) and problem crops up, it is a free for all. Buyer can accuse equipment is faulty while seller can accuse buyer has tested the equipment and problem crops up when buyer uses it in his system.

Some good and ethical individuals may offer a resolution out of courtesy. If seller refuses to do so then it is just bad luck to the buyer.

In your case, since the selller had refused to offer any resolution for your faulty amps, I would suggest bringing both your pre-power to a reputable technician to have it checked. You can then get an approximate quote on the cost of repair before you decide whether to proceed or not. At any rate I guess you would need to get it repaired, unless you can live with the flaw.

You may want to try asking seller for a 2nd time to bear the full repair cost or split it.

hifikrazy wrote:I truly sympathise with you. Although I don't think the seller is legally bound to fix it for you if there was no warranty period agreed upon, I do think that it is the "gentlemanly" thing to do, especially if the seller like CKWong who seems to be in the business of buying and selling used equipment. Frankly, I detest businessmen like this who only want to make a quick buck and do not think longer term.

Case in point... how CKWong deals with this can either make him a star or a villain... it's really his choice. Based on how he is dealing with the situation in not taking your call, personally I will avoid anything offered for sale by this seller with a ten foot pole from now on. But just imagine if he offered to fix it for you at his cost. Perhaps it may wipe out his profit on this one sale, or even end up costing him some money, but just imagine the goodwill that would be spread by word of mouth or otherwise if he were to do that.

Like I said... short term thinking. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not knowingly sell you a faulty item, but now that a problem has emerged soon after the transaction, I think he can handle this in a far better way. Shame on you CKWong!

It's probably better not to jump the gun by criticising the seller yet. From the initial facts stated by the thread starter, the seller made a reasonable effort in demonstrating the equipment:

• Working demo prior to sale, which the thread starter did not detect anything amiss.

• Giving you a disc out of courtesy.

• Played 5 tracks, which should be able to present a variety of music to cover most of the frequency spectrum.

As a few have said, bad luck happens, sometimes just in the short period during the journey back home.
OK, this may be a spanner in the works, but if there's any close similarity between the Canon S-30 & S-35 speakers, it could be that the S-30 has an automatic overload protection feature, which is something unusual for speakers. The Carver power amp is also unique in being a magnetic field power amp. Perhaps it's difficult to establish a relationship in terms of theory (and maybe it doesn't make sense at all...), but it may have made sense to try a conventional pair of speakers prior to that.

Stereophile link to the review of the Canon S-35: http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/695canon/

Lastly, we don't know the conversations that transpired after the sale, so it's open game at this stage.

True true.... my apologies for jumping to conclusions from the little facts. My bad.

Buying 2nd hand items and such is with intention of cost saving, therefore there is always risk abound ie fraud or spoilt item case. Therefore the element of risk is always with the buyer and this indeed sound unfair. But this is also same even when you buy direct from retail. Warranty also do not cover 100% of the risk such like user abuses. Therefore to obtain saving there is always risk element unless you prefer to/(can afford to) pay more, therefore with assurance of service, extra warranty and such.

Some of us purchase from overseas (as cheaper there) but we also need to carry risk in case need to send back for warranty & follow-up that will cost a bomb. Sometime in order to save a few $$$ can be a heartache when bad luck come calling.

I had one incident where I sold an interconnect and buyer says not working. So with broken heart I pay back the $$$ and take the item home to test and hope its not spoilt. It works and I put back up for sale. Sold it again and so far no news on its not working, touch wood.

electronics deteriorates with age especially in our hot & humid market ..but some brands last longer than others, example my first amp Mission Cyrus 1 bought in 1990 still going strong, apart from blown fuse which is easy to replace no problem at all testament to good old British made quality ..

I remember…

I went to Brickfields to bring the buyer to Kepong Baru.

The Carver 4000t/TFM-45 was able to demonstrate the good recording work of the demo CD for nearly 1 hour audition.
Look out! The CD has specific pronoun: *B&W Bowers & Wilkins – Very Audiophile New Recordings*.
The buyer immediately was impressed by the sound quality of the 1st track, viz. Colour to The Moon – Allan Taylor.
Before disconnecting, another burnt CD, the Camomile Blend- Emi Fujita was also played without any problem.
OK! The buyer satisfied so he paid and took away the combo.
The Emi Fujita’s CD was also gifted by courtesy.

The next day morning the buyer called to inform that the combo had problem in Track No. 5 and to seek return.
I sincerely requested the buyer to try other original CDs’ before jumping to any conclusion. After that I hanged up the phone.
When reaching office around noon, friend called to inform the buyer highlighted the problem in the forum. Wow, he has a good command of English wrote in flowery style.
If you were seller, what would you think? F&%#@*^%#
I'm not trader! hi-fi is my hobby.

Oh yes, the Track No. 5 is Old Fashioned Saturday Night - Mike Silver.

Well, is the combo really goes wrong??? I do not think that way.
Magnetic field power amplifier requires stiff and stable A/C power supply in order to function optimum, or else you would hear “vibrating” noise or even popping sound, due to the two big capacitors are charging and discharging.
Bad or broken interconnects are to be avoided too.

Both sides of my coin are engraved "FORGET". I got no choice but,

I forget...

real gold not scare of fire.

but real gold in fire for long time also melts.

OK, I think BOTH sides has had their chance to put in THEIR version of the events. My stance now is that as OUTSIDERS and THIRD PARTY, we should not have any more comments on this whole episode. Each one of us however, of course will have made up our minds and opinions of the whole episode. It does not matter who is right or wrong here, we should not be the judge and it should be left to the buyer and seller to (hopefully) settle things amicably.

As per my usual style, I shall now lock up this thread, in order to avoid it degenerating into a mud-slinging contest.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation.