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Post by alphadog467 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:26 pm

What would be considered a step up /upgrade from an old Linn LP12 (already loaded with an Ekos arm and external PSU)? Assuming a budget of bw RM5 - 10k for a new TT, what are the available options out there (eg. Clearaudio, Rega, VPI, etc).

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Post by RobA4 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:03 pm

Stick with the LP12 and upgrade the subchassis & armboard to a Keel.

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Post by WongKN on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:07 pm

For below 10k, assuming you trade in or sell your LP12, you will have to stick to the 'traditional' alternatives, i.e. Roksan Xerxes, Oracle Delphi and the like. Your problem would seem to be that your LP12 is already quite 'high-end' as it already has the Ekoz arm and the external PSU which are some of the last 'official Linn approved upgrade' for the LP12 (as an interesting aside, you should see if you can get the owners manual for current LP12s as my friend showed me one recently and at the end of the manual, it has an interesting section on 'stupid mods that we -Linn- do not approve'. Humour aside, that section was very intelligently written and presents a unique view of the kind of mods enthusiasts like to do with the LP12, beyond what is available from Linn themselves). You have to match the arm properly. One of the most popular upgrade from the full works (officially approved) LP12 is the Oracle Delphi with SME-5 tonearm and ideally the 'turbo' power supply. That will kick start you quite a big step up from the LP12/Ekoz/Lingo level, IMHO. If you are looking at Clearaudio, I think you will need at least the Clearaudio Reference TT.
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Post by zulkifar on Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:49 pm

As RobA4 said, stick to the LP12 and upgrade it to whatever current specs you can afford. A new, fully tricked out LP12 costs about rm70-80k. Minus the new SE arm, Keel, Radikal, Urika and Akiva which make up the high cost of this new LP12, you can have something like 50-80% (guesstimate) of what the new rig can provide. So in terms of intrinsic value what you have is something well beyond what you are budgeting for as an upgrade.

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Post by WongKN on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:12 pm

Alternately, if you trade in the LP12, or can get a good price for it, and if you really do spend RM10k extra on top, you might be able to find a good USED turntable like Roksan, Oracle, Clearaudio, etc.
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Post by car o scope on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:43 pm

zulkifar wrote:As RobA4 said, stick to the LP12 and upgrade it to whatever current specs you can afford. A new, fully tricked out LP12 costs about rm70-80k. Minus the new SE arm, Keel, Radikal, Urika and Akiva which make up the high cost of this new LP12, you can have something like 50-80% (guesstimate) of what the new rig can provide. So in terms of intrinsic value what you have is something well beyond what you are budgeting for as an upgrade.

Wow.. 70-80k!! That's seriously a lot of money. Shocked
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Post by WongKN on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:48 pm

70 to 80k. You can get some seriously high-end turntable for that kind of money. A Clearaudio Master Reference, even with the new pricing, is around this price. And from my listening experience, it sounds a lot better than the LP12, though cavert is I have not listened to every single mod available for the LP12.
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Post by car o scope on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:04 pm

WongKN wrote:70 to 80k. You can get some seriously high-end turntable for that kind of money. A Clearaudio Master Reference, even with the new pricing, is around this price. And from my listening experience, it sounds a lot better than the LP12, though cavert is I have not listened to every single mod available for the LP12.

True. In this price range, there are so many high-end turntables to choose from. Not to forget the 'freedom' to choose a good cartridge to be compatible with the TT.
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Post by WongKN on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:19 am

Actually if it is 70-80k for the entire system, TT, arm, catridge plus cable, it may not be that much with the insane prices of hifi gears nowadays. I believe a current model Oracle Delphi Mk 6, with latest SME 5 arm and say a Clearaudio Stradivari or Benz Micro LP catridge with a good tonearm cable like Clearaudio, etc, will total to this price or even slighty higher. Money is very small nowadays.
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Post by alphadog467 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:14 pm

Rob, WongKN, Car,

Thank you all for your suggestions. Wow! RM70-80k is definitely way way out of my league!!!

Just how much will the Keel upgrade costs? Will this give an improvement or just "different" sound? I am told that such LP12 upgrades are prohibitively expensive and this will also "change" the Linn's sonic signature (but not necessarily improve it).

I plan to keep my LP12. So, for RM10k, is there nothing out there than can better my Linn? I would have thought that modern TTs such as the VPI Classic (Bassraptor currently uses one and would assume that he is very happy with it) or a mid-end Clearaudio TT would be good enough (unless the Clearaudio Reference model is considered to be mid-end)? How about the higher-end Rega models eg. Rega7 or 9? No? If it costs so much more (to better the LP12), then why aren't audiophiles grabbing USED Linns? Or are they? I have seen at least a couple of Linn LP12/Ekos/Lingo going for RM5-6k in the used market but take up rate is slow.

It is sad to note that the prices of hifi has gone up so much over the last years that it is beyond the reach of the middle income group.

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Post by bassraptor on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:48 pm

I used to have a Linn LP12 in the 1990s. Sold it because I couldn't stomach being told there was an upgrade path every now and then, that wouldn't stop even after the cows came home! Not that I was so enamoured of its sound to start with ...

If you like your LP12, keep it ... better or worse is all in the ears of the beholder sometimes. I would find much better things to do with RM70k than upgrade an old TT to current specs (and to be told in a few years there are more upgrades). A two-week holiday in some exotic locale would be much more memorable. Very Happy

Just my 20 sen ... and it's not all about money!

I'm having more fun right now than ever tweaking and fine-tuning a RM2.5k unknown brand of turntable ... Cool

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Post by cmboy on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:57 pm

bassraptor wrote:
I'm having more fun right now than ever tweaking and fine-tuning a RM2.5k unknown brand of turntable ... Cool

hahah..half the world knows you like the Amari so much... Twisted Evil
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Post by bassraptor on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Damn, I should collect a commission for each one sold! Twisted Evil

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Post by cmboy on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:31 pm

Who ask you not to?.. business business, friend, friend... as the old saying goes.. everyone gotta eat. Smile
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Post by WongKN on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:47 pm

I googled and found the latest owners manual and pasted below is the amusing section I have been referring to. I find it amusing simply because of the blunt, direct, but completely honest way it was written (and words used), something I like to do though I would try to be a lot more tactful.

From the LP12 owners manual, pages 19 & 20:
USELESS, DANGEROUS AND FOOLISH MODIFICATIONS OF THE LP12

Over the past ten years, we have seen dozens of attempts to improve the performance of the Linn Sondek LP12. Believe us, if we ever found a way to improve the performance, we would do it. Below is a list of things that we have tried that DO NOT WORK. If any of them should happen to work for you, it indicates that you have made an error in the set up of the table. That error has caused a problem that is being "corrected" by your modification. In the process of correcting that error, you are most likely causing the loss of some program material. The best way to correct the problem is to set up the turntable properly in the first place (re-read the entire set up manual if necessary).

1. Damping material on the subchassis, tonearm, cartridge, or anyplace else. (The idea being to damp resonances.) This totally defeats the design of the Linn Sondek. We want any energy in the system to be present at all points in the-system. This way, any energy that affects the platter is also transmitted to the arm. The arm and cartridge move together, there is no relative movement between the cartridge body and the record, thus the energy has no effect on the output of the system. By damping any part of the turntable you are impeding the flow of energy from one part of the system to other parts of the system. This energy will no longer cancel out and, will show up in the output of the system.

2. Damping the springs with foam rubber. This is usually an attempt to cure foot-fall problems. Unfortunately, it greatly increases acoustic feedback and can even result in the pick up of disturbances caused by traffic passing-by several hundred yards away. The proper cure for foot-fall problems is to place the system along an outside wall (one with a foundation under it). If that is not enough, try a wall shelf or wedge a block of wood between the cabinet and the wall. Refer to the section on "Positioning the Turntable".

3. The use of record weights, or clamps. This will not improve the performance of the turntable. The weight or clamp stresses the record. This stress causes the record to transmit energy in an unpredictable manner. Any time we can’t control the energy in the system we can expect performance to suffer. The sound will change (usually getting "brighter", but it will not be an improvement if you really listen to it.) On top of that, weights can destroy the main bearing, which is already working at a pressure of two and a half tons per square inch. Adding a two pound weight to the platter increases that pressure by twenty percent. Whatever improvement you may believe you bear will be immaterial as soon as the spindle drills through the thrust plate of the bearing.

4. The use of platter mats other than the felt mat supplied by Linn. Generally these mats decouple the record from the platter. Whether they will, in fact, correct for problems in other tables, is debatable. In the case of the Linn, the decoupling only makes it more difficult for us to retrieve information from the record. Some heavy metal mats cause the same wear problem noted in item number 3.

5. The use of no mat. Resting the record on the bare metal platter sometimes causes a subjective improvement. The record resonates against the platter. The record sounds more "alive"; but a great deal of detail is masked. Please just use the felt mat.

6. The use of magic isolation bases and special feet. Turntables are most vulnerable to energy at very low frequencies, and these are exaggerated by the use of massive isolation bases. (Again, see the section on "Positioning the Turntable".) Likewise, isolation feet generally set up double resonances that exaggerate problems in the audible range.

7. Trying to reduce mass at the headshell of the arm. This is usually accomplished with a corresponding loss of rigidity. Common examples include the use of nylon mounting hardware and trimming or drilling material from the headshell. This decoupages the cartridge from the rest of the system and results in the loss of information.- (See the section on "Selecting a Tonearm and Cartridge".)

8 Other oils in the main bearing. As mentioned earlier, the bearing is subject to two and a half tons pressure per square inch. Linn oil is specifically formulated to eliminate the microscopic welds that can occur at that pressure. The long term use of any other oil can cause damage to the bearing.

9. Exotic arm mounting boards, and bolting through the armboard. The multi-ply construction of the arm board is essential to proper operation of the turntable. Any attempt to use other materials and/or other methods of mounting the board to the subchassis (such as bolts through the entire thickness of the arm board), will degrade the sound. The effect is usually a brightening of the high end that is sometimes judged as an improvement in performance. Careful listening will reveal a loss of detailed information and a loss of the tune.

10. Alternate tonearm cable routing or grounding of the table. The tonearm cable must be routed through the P-clip in the prescribed manner. Any other routing (i.e. special soft wires' to'phono jacks on the base, etc.) will deliver feedback directly to the arm and/or leave the suspension improperly damped. Likewise, the grounding should be run in exactly the manner indicated. Any other arrangement risks either leaving various parts of the table at different ground potential (which increases static), or creating a ground loop (which causes hum).

The use of any of the above modifications indicates, at best, a lack of understanding of the product. If you ever have any questions about these or any other modifications, let us know. Most likely, we have already tried the modification and can offer you some advice. If we haven't tried it, we will.

END OF QUOTE.

What Linn is generally saying is that : "do you seriously think someone other than us will understand the LP12 better than us ?". Laughing
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Post by bassraptor on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:07 pm

I like it ... Rega very much has the same take, but don't use that many words!

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Post by jokiarch on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:50 pm

WongKN wrote: ..snipe..

What Linn is generally saying is that : "do you seriously think someone other than us will understand the LP12 better than us ?". Laughing

It is like saying that we can never make our LP12 sound better than LINN, if we do, we have made 2 mistakes to make a right! Twisted Evil

I wonder if Ferrari team think the same of Michael Schumacher on Ferrari? I can bet my last dime on Schuey can handle Ferrari better than the engineer who design it. Cool
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Post by mugenfoo on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:20 pm

Adding on:

Shuey is(was) a Ferrari Driver and thats what he does ...& the Engineers in Maranello would build an F1 car with Shuey's input, speficially for him.

Same goes for the Honda NSX-R, it was also built with input from the late great Aryton Senna. Would the Honda Engineer be able to drive the NSX-R better than Aryton himself ? But you still need the talented engineer to design the car from paper and ink right ?

Besides, engineers don't necessarily make good drivers, just like how David Leadbetter would never win any Golf titles himself but he sure has mentored world champions like Nick Faldo, Greg Norman and Ernie Els. But who dares to say that David Leadbetter doesnt know a thing or two about golf ?

Any golfing kaki here ?
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Post by cmboy on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:26 pm

I think Linn (possibly also other makes who may do similar) speaks out bluntly in the best interest of all LP12 owners not to simply meddle what is already a finely tuned machine (better still setup by dealer) and naturally expect the TT to be fully supported and serviced in future by their dealer network. Of course anyone can do anything to it to their best interest or to their peril, never say they're not been advised or warned through the instruction manual. In reality it takes almost memorizing the setup/rebuild/service proceedure and take a really well handy person to go through it all to have the LP12 to perform at its highest potential. One may need a couple or more special tools to have the edge and tune the suspension with more accuracy. In short its a lot more than meets the eye if its to perform to the highest possible sonic performance. Its certainly not a case of resting the TT on a pile of books, elbowing around attempting to tune a couple of nuts, springs here n there. The jig stand specially designed for the LP12 is so neccessary and makes things much of a jiffy if one have that. Thats where there's just as many owners rather have their expert and experienced dealer to carry out the works for a small fee. Trouble is, in Malaysia, its perhaps by word of mouth and high recommendation of someone somewhere thats able to do the job.
Rega doesn't tell you anything more other than general safety measures, just plug n play out of the box, more or less. Moreover there's nothing really complex about the Rega and all service can be done on your dinner table.
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Post by WongKN on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:04 am

My personal take is that while it is true that Linn probably knows the LP12 better than anyone else, to conclusively state that noone else will ever find a mod that works on the LP12, OTHER THAN Linn themselves is just a bit bordering on the over-confidence. However, I agree with CMBOY that Linn is also probably protecting themselves. I mean if someone puts a real heavy cylindrical weight on the spindle and uses it as a clamp and then later finds the bearing is spoilt, then Linn's reputation might be compromised. The thing is people tends to be -selectively- frugal with words -especially- when it suits their own personal interest. So the person who spoilt his bearing with a wrong clamp is likely to simply say his LP12 bearing gave way but 'conveniently' neglects to add that he has been using a 5kg clamp (for e.g.) for several weeks before that.
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Post by cmboy on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:28 am

I suppose anyone who'd upgrade from LP12 to something else better go through the whole rigmarole of CAREFULLY auditioning whatever thats available here (reputed better than LP12?) and within the budget. I reckon the person would know best what suits him.
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Post by WongKN on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:40 am

Excellent advice and something I am in full agreement. Unfortunately, for RM10k, it is highly unlikely there will a turntable -system- that can beat the LP12 -system- alphadog has. If RM10k for just the TT only, a used Roksan Xerxes or Oracle Delphi Mk 4 or Mk 5 would potentially be within reach though the unit will have to be quite old. If the tonearm is required, then it will -have- to be around RM15k. The LP12/Ekoz/Lingo set-up is an excellent vinyl system and it did not gained its reputation for nothing. I think Clearaudio Reference (only the TT) 2nd hand might also be reachable at RM10k. I will take a look this saturday at my friend's shop.
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Post by alphadog467 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:44 pm

Thanks guys for all your input!

I'd like to keep the LP12 as it is and at the same time, have a second TT which is different to the LP12 (more dynamic and neutral). But it looks like I better stop fantasizing on getting a new rig Crying or Very sad and instead consider the USED-TT option as suggested by WongKN which sounds more realistic considering the budget I have.

Thanks for your suggestion CMBoy, but for many reasons, it is not easy to convince dealers to arrange for audition unless the TT is already set up for demo (unlike a CD player) or the dealer is convinced that I am not wasting his time.

Modding the LP12 (with Linn's "approved" gear/kit) is an expensive upgrade option ... the Keel upgrade itself costs > US$4-5k. That alone may buy me a new mid-end TT+ arm+cart. Anyway, thanks for your suggestion Rob, always good to know what the available options are.

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Post by cmboy on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:59 pm

Hi Alphadog.
Do update us here from time to time what you've auditioned or have evaluated hereon, moreover you may think is something better or an alternative to the Lp12. It'll be interesting to know.
Perhaps another consideration is a higher end cartridge and phono stage for the Lp12. Who knows? perhaps that department may offer untold joy rather than another TT investment. I've no idea what you already have so I'm only merely suggesting. Have fun!
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Post by sting on Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:23 pm

Alphadog,

I'm a cat whisperer . Is that your cat?....He's (hope so) trying to say.."help me!".

for sale?... Laughing
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Post by alphadog467 on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:10 pm

Sorry Sting,

The Cat that you see is actually CMBoy's ...

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Post by sting on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:33 pm

alphadog467 wrote:Sorry Sting,

The Cat that you see is actually CMBoy's ...

hahahaa..my mistake.. Embarassed

by right I should have think your nick and avatar doesn't go together. Ok CMBoy...the question is to you now... Very Happy
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Post by cmboy on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:45 pm

Errr..this thread have nothing to do with cats. Meanwhile my cats are trying to rape someone and its affecting my music listening pleasure. Evil or Very Mad
There's always the PM facility.
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Post by sting on Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:50 pm

got nothing to do with this thread, indeed. If I were to PM you, it's look too personal which I doesn't mean it at all (about the buying thing). Just a cats lover, could resist to look at his curious face...

This topic is really serious matter...sorry to interrupt. I couldn't fit-in in the high end gears being discuss..
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Post by cmboy on Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:11 pm

hahah...no problem man!..
Those cats are called Kitlers. They do exist and with variety.
Google kitlers and humor yourself.
Good day!
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Post by sting on Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:18 pm

wow..I google kitlers and your cat in the first pic to appear..... cheers . Lucky you...

http://www.google.com.my/images?q=kitlers&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=uc54TYy8C8_NrQekteWzBQ&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=616
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Post by wingman on Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:52 pm

Hi All...

Coming soon, would be upgrading my TT to a Linn LP12, an offer which i am unable to refuse Evil or Very Mad . The eventual LP 12 is still in its original state and well maintained.( get a taste of its SQ in its original form )

I know am venturing into an unknown territory with so much of tweaks, adjustments and even the design unlike a Rega TT. Understand from all these readings thats it's in a different league.

I know along the line the TT has evolved from better bearings, better springs and lots more. In terms of tonearm,there is the Basik LVx, Basik Plus, Akito and more so.

If i can remember, its mounted with a Basik LV-X tonearm.

Intend to take the MC cart Arrow route. Would the Tonearm be the right match and any other input is much appreciated.

cheers Very Happy
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Post by bassraptor on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:30 pm

I can only wish you all the best, Siva ... heartaches and all ... Twisted Evil

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Post by wingman on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:17 pm

Wow...

That's ... Shocked ....very consoling....care to detail down your escapade with a LINN TT .....apart from all the upgradability options.

Looking at it from a positive light... Very Happy .... but your input is appreciated.

Thank you

cheers Very Happy


Last edited by wingman on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by WongKN on Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:21 pm

SJ, now that's what I call stirring the shit-pot ! Laughing Looks like you can certainly stir it as good, if not better, than the rest of us !! lol!

Wingman, congratulations on your next step to vinyl nirvana. I think the Basik arm is a good starting point. Eventually when you have learnt to set up the LP12 properly, you can choose to move on to better arms if finances permit. Each upgrade will open new worlds of sonic excellence for you to discover and enjoy.
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Post by bassraptor on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:23 pm

wingman wrote:Wow...

Tha't....wow:shock:....very consoling....care to detail down your escapade with a LINN TT .....apart from all the upgradability options.

Looking at it from a positive light... Very Happy .... but your input is appreciated.

Thank you

cheers Very Happy

I have the greatest respect for the Linn tradition, so this just my opinion. but different strokes for different folks. I like a turntable that just runs and runs once it's been set up, though, without requiring periodic set-up attention for optimum performance.

sflam recently took back a linn magik to review for his blog. by the time he reached home and set it up, it's alignment was gone. they had to go to his house to set it up again. according to the linn guys, this should not happen if it had been properly set up to start with. ah, well ... maybe it's just lam ... Razz

don't get me wrong, if I had Rm72k to spare, after buying FM Acoustic electronics and/or Magico/Wilson speakers, and a Walker or Continuum turntable system, I'd splurge on the fully kitted out Sondek just for fun. Not that it will happen, but I'm just saying ....

Anyway, man, you have fun, the Linn will teach you a lot about turntables. After that, and if you become an expert, you can set up your own garage ... Twisted Evil Very Happy Laughing


oh, as an afterthought, about the Rm72k to spare ... i think it will go for the VW Golf instead ... Wink

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Post by sflam on Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:12 pm

just to correct certain things...

i did not transport the linn majik from perfect hifi in bangsar to my house in ss4 petaling jaya.
it was the gentleman from perfect hifi himself. he had set it up in bangsar and by the time it reached my house, its 'bounce' had changed a bit.
he brought along the tools and spent about an hour getting the 'bounce' right.
but once it was set up, the linn majik performed well.

btw, i hv now changed my view on upgrading turntables/tonearms/cartridges after spending a week with an fm acoustics fm122 MkII phono linearizer which corrects the riaa curves.

there is no point spending rm72k for the top-level linn or rm100k for some top-level american tt when the riaa curves in the vinyl are not corrected.

with the fm122, you get very good sound with a decent turntable, decent tonearm and decent neutral-sounding cartridge.

it costs around rm40k, but if you hv a turntable set up costing around rm10k (for a total of rm50k), you can have sound quality that is better than the rm72k linn or a rm100k tt with an expensive phono preamp that does not correct the riaa curves.

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Post by bassraptor on Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:31 pm

sflam wrote:
it costs around rm40k, but if you hv a turntable set up costing around rm10k (for a total of rm50k), you can have sound quality that is better than the rm72k linn or a rm100k tt with an expensive phono preamp that does not correct the riaa curves.

have you actually done an A/B to arrive at this conclusion?

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Post by sflam on Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:51 pm

i don't think it's necessary to a/b to reach that conclusion.

the argument is pretty simple:

the rm72k linn or rm100k tt with normal phono preamp - despite the high quality of sound - will merely be reproducing the mistakes made by the recording engineer/studio when the conversion from tape to stamper was made.

the ideal situation would be to have a 72k linn, or more than 100k walker, continuum, etc, with the fm acoustics linearizer.

what i am saying is correcting riaa curves is more vital than any tonearm. cartridge, phono preamp or even tt upgrade.

if one cannot afford the fm acoustics, then one can go for the graham slee or the cheaper one made by 'that' ss2 dealer.

boulder also makes one that corrects riaa curves, but it's probably as expensive as the fm.

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Post by bassraptor on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:40 pm

So you're saying that every LP recording, old and new, need their RIAA curves corrected?

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Post by sflam on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:50 pm

not all, but most. i was kinda surprised by that.

even an audiophile 180gm lp needed correction.

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Post by wingman on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:52 pm

WongKN wrote:Wingman, congratulations on your next step to vinyl nirvana. I think the Basik arm is a good starting point. Eventually when you have learnt to set up the LP12 properly, you can choose to move on to better arms if finances permit. Each upgrade will open new worlds of sonic excellence for you to discover and enjoy.

Wong...your views appreciated. Will take the "ground up approach". See what fancies me and finance is an important criteria.

Bass...to a point I would agree with you....a no hassle turntable....plays all your LP's after a one time setup but the LINN / Thorens are in a differernt league... a periodic "stroke" gets them motivated Shocked .

There were lots of reason for me to move on to a Linn but the iceing on the cake was its value ($), condition and the SQ derived after a perfect setup.

Will be satisfied with what comes with the TT and maybe a Tonearm upgrade in the near future. That's if one comes by with the right pricing. Waiting to get my hands dirty with the Linn TT.

Now at least I have a comparison in the Rega TT that I have owned. Due to space constraints, will be letting go of my Planar 3 which includes the accessories that i have added on.

The search was exhaustive, something i liked but the price and condition was not desirable.


Thanks, Wong / Bass.

cheers Very Happy
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Post by wingman on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:55 pm

sflam wrote:if one cannot afford the fm acoustics, then one can go for the graham slee or the cheaper one made by 'that' ss2 dealer.

boulder also makes one that corrects riaa curves, but it's probably as expensive as the fm.

SF...thanks for the pointer....whats the product name / price which is being sold by this one very elusive "SS2" dealer.

cheers
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Post by WongKN on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:22 pm

Actually it's not elusive at all, just a running joke I am having. Now it seems that a few others like sflam seemed to have joined in the fun ! Very Happy

'That' SS2 dealer is of course Audio Image and what is being referred to is their AIME range of phono stages. There are three models, a basic one and then two higher-end models which have different equalization curves selectable via a small remote control. Curves like RIAA, LP, LONDON, AES, and so forth.

Phono stages with selectable equalization curves are generally extremely expensive. Brands like FMAcoustics, Boulder, Zenden, etc. But if you are willing to accept a local brand, then AIME is available at a relatively affordable price (note, affordable can be relative). For SQ, you can go have a listen at 'that' shop (I will avoid giving my opinions here).

Somehow I get this sneaky feeling that SJ's posts are partly serious but also partly because he is having a lot of fun stirring the shit-pot.... Twisted Evil
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Post by sflam on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:25 pm

product name is AIME.
it's sold by adrian of audio image, section 19, pj.
price is around RM4k.

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Post by cmboy on Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:38 am

For most people, RIAA equalization is never really an issue, just trust what their phono stage will provide. Might as well lump in every other item in the source chain from cartridge to tonearm wires to arm tube to phono cables to cartridge loading which each have its own unique tone, character, frequency response and other resolve.
I'll stirr the shitpot only so much. Twisted Evil
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Post by wingman on Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:06 am

WongKN wrote:Actually it's not elusive at all, just a running joke I am having. Now it seems that a few others like sflam seemed to have joined in the fun ! Very Happy

'That' SS2 dealer is of course Audio Image and what is being referred to is their AIME range of phono stages.

Somehow I get this sneaky feeling that SJ's posts are partly serious but also partly because he is having a lot of fun stirring the shit-pot.... Twisted Evil

Wong...

Wonderful...this one very "elusive" dealer has be revealed Shocked but frankly i knew it was "Audio Image" all along. Going along with the flow. I had a few transaction with Audio Image, mostly "LP's". Nothing major.

My take is that anything developed locally should be given the due recognition and promoted. Not wanting to take sides but providing options. As you have said "acceptance".

It's similar when "Proton" was introduced to the Malaysian market, apprehension to acceptance.

Maybe they do not have the "cloud" as the bigger players but the products can be equal or better.

SF - Thanks for the indicative pricing.

CM - yeap agreed with your views. In terms of product I trust most are not aware that someting with that capability / feature is available locally and with a reasonable price. ( subjective )

Take me for an instance, as i was picking up my Hifi passion....the CA640P was my choice compared to products in a similar class. Never wanted to get into that nitty gritty stuff...just plug and play. Up till now the CA640P is justifying its purchase. ( all lumped into one ) So, that is still part of my equation. Never know what will happen.. as i horn Twisted Evil my "SQ" taste buds.... Question

Well, SJ is just being SJ... being outright in his views...which is good no flavouring added. As he, if not most of you guys have gone through the "minefield" and came out either mildly or badly bruised.

So the Hifi "platoon" or "batallion" at the rear coming up either takes or disregards the view.

My motto all along is to take it slow ( enjoy the progress ), positive and budget ( financial criteria). Do lots of reading before anyt potential acquistion.

There is no turning back with this acquistion, not my "cup of tea" Wink off load it. But my gut feeling Twisted Evil tell's me it will be a permanent part of my Hifi equation as with most other stuff.

Thanks all.

Cheers Very Happy
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Post by WongKN on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:09 am

WM, once you learn how to keep the LP12 set-up properly (you HAVE to learn how to do the basic things yourself), then I think you will be hard-pressed to find a digital playback system to beat it and yet available at prices that don't cost us years of our salery. Jokes aside, SJ is very right in highlighting that the LP12 often requires a lot of TLC. It's like a young girl you are courting, always needs to be manja'ed a lot before you get it to do what you want. but once it does perform, you will be transported to sonic heaven. Now you just need to get good condition records.
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Post by WongKN on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:16 am

Oh yes, BTW to the original starter of this thread, who was looking for something to step up to from the LP12 base, there is a used Goldmund Studio at 'that' shop. Complete with tonearm and catridge. I think the price might be in your price range so it should be worthwhile to make a trip to SS2 if you are still looking for the upgrade.

The Goldmund Studio is a rather old design but not that much older than the LP12 or Rega Plannars. At one time it was one of THE high-end TTs to die for. It's big brother is the Goldmund Reference which at one time was THE BEST TT in the world.
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Post by cmboy on Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:43 pm

Stepping into the world of LP12 will make you have a tendency to spend more money to satisfy one's insatiable appetite or vanity in the quest to dig the fullest potential out of it. LP12 parts aren't cheap and will never be cheap. I've come across people who loose sleep constantly thinking how to enhance the Lp12, from tuning to tweaking to tonearm/cartridge upgrade to factory upgrades, all with a high cost. I've won't even dare to mention the rest of the amplification chain which one may suddenly find there limitations revealed. Unless one just buy a excellent condition unit, plug n play, not think of anything else, then you're one exception. LP12 isn't anywhere the same as a Rega TT and may have a long list of shortcomings or ills if all the intimate details are revealed. Its NOT or rarely a perfect machine especially if its a used unit with an unknown history. OK.. I'll stop here, hope you enjoy your LP12 adventure hereon.
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