Any regrets upgrading from bookshelf speakers to floorstanders?

As Title :

Is there anyone regretted upgrading from Bookshelf speaker to Floorstander Speaker ?
"Due to several aspect like Room Space/Amp/Player/Cable....."

Anyone can share ?

No regrets here I sometimes come across little bookshelf speakers which amaze me but ultimately I find the sound of big speakers more satisfying!

Nope! It was one of the best upgrades I ever made! Now I have 2 pairs floorstanders..

Wow ....2pairs !?
In diff Room ?

Some's said tube amp is prefect pair for bookshelf speaker

In general - people who choose bookshelf speakers have smaller rooms - so they are sitting nearer to their speakers - so the speakers will be louder for a given wattage of amplification - so you can get away with fewer Watts. That is the ONLY link between bookshelf speakers and valve amps.

Many bookshelf speakers will struggle with a valve amp if it is not designed to be friendly to valve amps - i.e. high efficiency and high input impedance.

Actually to be completely fair, not all non-floorstanders can be called 'bookshelf' speakers. There are quite a lot of different classes of non-floorstander. The classic BBC monitors for e.g. can be called bookshelf speakers. But consider other examples of speakers which requires stands- Sonus Faber Extrema and Magico V2 are two examples to comes to mind. They can play loud, VERY loud in the case of the Extrema and has a power requirement barely short of the Apogee Scintilla. But both speakers can deliver exemplary performance, -within- the limits of physics (i.e. lack of low bass and lack of bass power).

One thing about valve amps powering sensitive speakers is to bear in mind that music when played at realistic volumes can be very 'powerful' as in the sheer volume of air being moved can require a lot of power. There is no magic in delivering that volume of air necessary to project, say a full symphonic orchestra in full swing. A certain amount of brute power is needed. To think that it can be so simple as to get very sensitive speakers to make up for lack of power from, for e.g., an SET amp simply won't work. This is because one of the most powerful laws of physics (and of reality itself) states that energy cannot be created. Put simply there is no magic, no 'free lunch'. If we need for e.g. 100watts to produce a certain amount of music at a required dB volume, then we need an amp that produces 100watts. It is physically impossible to say that we just use an extremely sensitive speaker so we can generate the required dB with only 10 or 15watts. The laws don't allow that.

It is the same arguement as someone without solid automotive knowledge who comes and say that to get his car to go at 250kph, he doesn't need a lot of power, all he needs is to change his gearbox so that 5th gear is low enough that he can reach 250kph before his engine hits redline. All the time ignoring the fact that one needs a lot of pure engine power to reach 250kph.

WongKN wrote:This is because one of the most powerful laws of physics (and of reality itself) states that energy cannot be created. Put simply there is no magic, no 'free lunch'. If we need for e.g. 100watts to produce a certain amount of music at a required dB volume, then we need an amp that produces 100watts. It is physically impossible to say that we just use an extremely sensitive speaker so we can generate the required dB with only 10 or 15watts. The laws don't allow that.

Sorry WongKN but the above is incorrect. The laws of physics says that energy can not be created - that is true. But it also says that energy can be WASTED and that is precisely what is happening when you are driving an inefficient speaker with a high powered amp. The energy might be wasted in an overly complex crossover, or it might be wasted by heating the voice coil instead of moving the driver.

enzo..

My setup has been from floor standers ( old school ) to bookshelfs, both has served me well in terms of their individual musicality.

Never regretted the move I made but both have their PROs and CONS. The floor standers deliver a better punch, wider spectrum cause their dimension of the drivers and the AMP that drives them as well.

Some bookshelfs would amaze you as well. So, I would say its down to once taste, room dimension.

But am itching to try the newer breed of Floorstanders to see how my new configuration sounds.

cheers

WongKK wrote:
Sorry WongKN but the above is incorrect. The laws of physics says that energy can not be created - that is true. But it also says that energy can be WASTED and that is precisely what is happening when you are driving an inefficient speaker with a high powered amp. The energy might be wasted in an overly complex crossover, or it might be wasted by heating the voice coil instead of moving the driver.

WongKK, this makes some sense. We often talk 'bout high powered amp, 200w or 250w but is the energy generated being efficiently utilized to move the drivers? If we often over-powering a speaker (not all speakers though), we might risk over-heating the voice coil in the longer run before we know what is happening. I've read an article from one speaker manufacturer showing some damaged voice coils due to over-cook them by customers. Therefore it is not necessary always the case the more the better.

You are both correct in that you see it from another angle. There will always be some form of wastage from amp to speaker. Some loss in the form of heat and other things. So if the system is producing a sound-wave at a dB that is say 50watts overall (I know it is not this simple but we simplify for the sake of discussion, hopefully when someone with all the knowledge needed corrects me/us, he/she will do it 'gently' ), then the power needed from the amp will be more than 50watts, the difference being lost due to wastage, heat, etc.

So what I am trying to explain is coming from the other way from. I.e. if we want to produce a sound-wave at a dB that requires 100watts to generate, then we cannot use a 50watt amp to do that and claim it is possible by using a very efficient speaker. Because what is coming out from the amp is 50watt at most and thus from the speaker will be -less- than 50watt, so how can that system produce the required sound ? This is the basis for that paragraph. So in this sense, all of us are correct.

It is said that very often, damage to speakers are done when an amp is -over- driven, it clips and delivers what is basically DC or flat sound waves to the coils. There was at one time, an advertisement by an amp manufacturer that showed a speaker supposedly destroyed by their amp which was so powerful it burned the speaker coil but which many journalist were sceptical about. So the danger is a clipping amp, not a too powerful amp.

HAVING said this, I HAVE seen speakers that have been -really- over-driven, as in the woofer coil was driven so violently that the whole coil deformed. But it took a Krell FPB600 to do that, actually a pair of them.

WongKN wrote:HAVING said this, I HAVE seen speakers that have been -really- over-driven, as in the woofer coil was driven so violently that the whole coil deformed. But it took a Krell FPB600 to do that, actually a pair of them.

He did that on his own speakers? Not many owners of dual FPB600 and I guess I knew who he is.

The woofer coil must have been driven Fast and Furiously by the massive monsters. FPB400 already jaw dropping let alone dual FPB600

someone trying to do concert with normal speaker~~

enzo520 wrote:As Title :

Is there anyone regretted upgrading from Bookshelf speaker to Floorstander Speaker ?
"Due to several aspect like Room Space/Amp/Player/Cable....."

Anyone can share ?

I have a friend who previously was very comfortable with the bass of a Holfi (heh heh you know who you are) bookshelve and when something in the system's equation took the bass lower he was actually uncomfortable with the lower and more qty of rolling bass. Only much much later that he upgraded to a large floorstander. I guess it's about changing requirements and tastes or rather, music demands have changed to be able to accomodate the bass.

cheers.

Sorry KN, I think that your understanding of how many Watts is required to generate a certain SPL in dB is off by a couple of orders of magnitude. An SPL of 100dB in 1m^2 contains 0.01W of energy according to http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-soundlevel.htm

If you were to create "100W of acoustic power" then you would have enough sound to fill an area of 10,000m^2 with 100dB of SPL. 10,000m^2 = 100m x 100m = about the size of a concert hall.

What happens when you use your 100W amplifier to drive an inefficient speaker to 100dB is that all the excess energy is wasted as heat. Loudspeakers are very inefficient - 99.9% of energy which is put into it is wasted.

In any case, your quote below:

It is physically impossible to say that we just use an extremely
sensitive speaker so we can generate the required dB with only 10 or
15watts. The laws don't allow that.

... is demonstrably wrong because there are speakers out there which are >100dB/W/m efficiency. I have heard them being driven to deafening levels with tiny amplifiers.

KK,

On the contrary I do not believe it is that straight-forward. Is 100W really that much power ? We also need to be aware that the perception of sound loudness is related to the sensitivity of our ears which is different for different frequencies. For certain frequencies in the midrange, our ears are extra sensitive so they sound louder. When one says 'deafening levels', which part of the frequency spectrum sounds deafening. That is the key question.

Yep.. ! Two sets of 'hardwares'..
Also have 'bookshelf' units.. also two..

enzo520 wrote:Wow ....2pairs !?
In diff Room ?

Some's said tube amp is prefect pair for bookshelf speaker

Sorry for the detour and it was refreshing sharing (contrasting) opinions with WongKK.

Back to the original topic, it can be sad when one regrets after spending money on an upgrade isn't it ? From the cases I have seen, often it is the case where the floorstander demands more power, a 'stronger' amplifer so to speak. So the owner suddenly finds himself in a delima, that after spending all his money on a new pair of speaker, now he has to find more to upgrade the amp.

When I changed from Spendor SP2/2 which can be considered 'bookshelf' (a rather large one I might add) to Apogee Centaur Minor, I didn't have any such problems. But the Centaur Minor wasn't that much different in size from the SP2/2, just that it is a floorstander. I suspect whether the floor-stander has larger and more demanding drivers will have a lot of effect.

In any case, as the name implies, it is usually done in an 'upgrade' mode, i.e. the owner won't really change from a bookshelf to a floorstander of similar sound quality just for the fun of it. Usually there is a sound improvement in the process, or rather the new speakers promises better sound (or else why spend money to upgrade ?). In such a case, the need for a better amp which is a totally unexpected factor would possibly lead to the regret (if any).

I would have to agree.. a change in the 'chain' may upset a balanced set up, hence the need to 'restore' the balance.. I chose a completely new setup instead...
In this case NOT an upgrade but a new/complete system purchase/upgrade... hehe

Koh-Lou yan (i.e. been there, done that) ?

wingman wrote:enzo..

........the move I made but both have their PROs and CONS. The floor standers deliver a better punch, wider spectrum cause their dimension of the drivers and the AMP that drives them as well.

Some bookshelfs would amaze you as well. So, I would say its down to once taste, room dimension.

But am itching to try the newer breed of Floorstanders to see how my new configuration sounds.

cheers

Agreed ! Prons & Cons ! Every speaker hv their own characteristic.
There is bookshelf speaker / Floorstander Speaker / Horn Speaker ......etc.

WongKN wrote:...........................
In any case, as the name
implies, it is usually done in an 'upgrade' mode, i.e. the owner won't
really change from a bookshelf to a floorstander of similar sound
quality just for the fun of it. Usually there is a sound improvement in
the process, or rather the new speakers promises better sound (or else
why spend money to upgrade ?). In such a case, the need for a better amp
which is a totally unexpected factor would possibly lead to the regret
(if any).

This one of the factor too. When upgrading to floorstander speaker, existing amp remain.
thus the EQ can't pair with the floorstander perfectly.

unless...like CT-BOY purchased a whole new set of Speaker & System.

Enzo...

Not to regret the choice of speakers...lug the AMP around to audition the speakers, be it book shelfs or floorstanders or Horn speakers.

That's what I did, got the matching set of bookshelfs with my AMP...so it may be another journey with the AMP to look for the floor standers... and not forgetting the CD's of my choice to go along. One of the outings I brought along my interconnects as well. So its the full chain except for the CD player.

Not to worried about the nitty gritty stuff but still remain a contributing factor to the bigger picture ....... my baseline...it must suit my taste and the type of music i listen too.

The rest of the equation would fall like domino's.... if the system matches the speakers or any new addition.

cheers

For discussion:

I see people doing an upgrade usually from three possible situations.

Situation 1.
The system is complete and balanced and we like the sound. But we still go and buy something new. Why ?
Usual la. Bekside itchy and don't want to scratch.
In this situation, there is a chance we will face a problem when we get the new component because, assuming it is of higher quality, it can potentially expose shortcomings in the rest of the system, which have previously been hidden by original component. If it is speakers for e.g. then we might find ourselves in the situation in this thread, 'regret' because we find the sound not to our expectations - amp not good enough to drive, etc. This regret is usually because we do not foresee a need to be forced to upgrade other parts of the system.

Situation 2.
The system is well balanced and we like the sound. But we are ke-po-chi (busy body) and goes around listening to other people's systems and new things at dealers and the KLAVS. What happens is we hear a higher end system and we like the sound. So we want to upgrade our own system to try to get similar sound.
Such a situation can bring us to the same scenario as above as the new component is probably at a higher level than the rest of the system. Even if it doesn't expose serious shortcomings, we will still find ourselves in the situation below.

Situation 3.
We are in the middle of upgrading our entire system. The difference between situations above and here is that this is planned. I.e. we are in the process of upgrading our entire system and this is one of the steps. In such a scenario, we seldom 'regret' because we are concious of the potential pitfalls in the middle of the upgrading process.

So the way I see it is if we are in situation 1 especially and perhaps in situation 2 as well, then there is a higher chance that we will regret if we buy a floorstander coming from a bookshelf or a speaker on stands. As usual it always falls back on the crucial issue of expectations.

Further adding to the discussion (adding oil a bit to the fire), its the itchy backside and higher expectation that drive all this. We always like to have better things, better car, bigger house and nicer sound.

As such, its no point lamenting on regrets. Its a learning curve and we enjoy the process and not just waiting for the final outcome.

If you dont enjoy the process, then dont ever visit any more hifi shop, AV show and just make do with a HTib and a mini-compo. This is make sure no more future headache and "deregister" yourself from this forum after you read this.

Finally, its like "making love". The first time you always remember. (First good hifi) From there you want to achieve more and gets better performance (upgrade path) but you never get to the end ie "stop" doing it unless you decided to have 100% no more "sex" (sell off all your stuff, cut off your stuff).

JSoo1, how do you do the "upgrade path" on making love when you married ah?? can sell off the wife you know..haha..

I am not advising this but here is some ideas...
Upgrade path.. try another audio set (mistress) in a different room (keep outside the mistress). Maybe even set up more than 1 room or more than 1 system (multiple house, multiple mistress).
Try different approaches, placement, equipments to enhance sound (front, back, sideway, all in, go deep, vibrator or leather)

If you have the cash, you can have more than 1 set (multiple wife, multiple mistress) provided you have the moolah...

I don't know what to say/do. He makes us look so tame by comparison ....

I'm sticking with bookshelves but I do admit that there is simply no replacement for displacement. A bigger box is bound to paint a bigger picture somehow and there are areas in music reproduction that bookshelf speakers can never quite emulate due to the size factor. How much air can you move with a 4" mid/bass driver right?

But having said that, I have heard systems comprising well designed bookshelf speakers cleverly integrated with subwoofers that truly astound. Even give them floorstanders a run for their money. And this is just the thing I aspire to achieve with my setup.

So, it's bookshelf speakers for me.

no regrets and no surrender

bimmerman,
I used to do that, partnering a sub with my bookshelves... I was happy until I heard a transmission line floorstander...

bimmerman wrote:


A bigger box is bound to paint a bigger picture somehow and there are areas in music reproduction that bookshelf speakers can never quite emulate due to the size factor. How much air can you move with a 4" mid/bass driver right?

true. big speakers sound big. big woofers move more air.

however, some huge speakers can create enormous images that are larger than life and sound unnatural. the singer can seem to be 10 ft tall and the drummer can have hands that can stretch 10-12 feet from left to right speaker.

wong kn wrote:


But consider other examples of speakers which requires stands- Sonus Faber Extrema and Magico V2 are two examples to comes to mind.

the magico v2s are floorstanders. perhaps u r referring to the magico mini II or the new q1
.

Magico V2

Htkaki, DID YOU sell this Magico V2?

It looks so SEXY & gorgeous! The front baffle is well designed. Can;t wait get my hands on them!

Anyway, I am enjoying my BBC bookshelf to the fullest. The good thing is the more I listen to them the more I *feel* for them.

CT-Boy wrote:bimmerman,
I used to do that, partnering a sub with my bookshelves... I was happy until I heard a transmission line floorstander...

Yeah CT, i've been on the same route too. I've partnered B&W Solids with a Cervin Vega sub back in the 1980s and had a good rocking time, then a pair of Kef Coda 7s with a Kef sub, got big sound but nothing special. Then one day I auditioned a setup which to my ears did everything from imaging to speed to scale and everything right and that system sounded like a million bucks even next to those million buck floorstanders. Best of all, it sounded just right instead of being unnaturally larger than life like Sflam said.

If I suceed, please come for a listen. Hope to get it done by the end of this month.

sflam wrote:

wong kn wrote:


But consider other examples of speakers which requires stands- Sonus Faber Extrema and Magico V2 are two examples to comes to mind.

the magico v2s are floorstanders. perhaps u r referring to the magico mini II or the new q1
.

Yeah, the Sonus Faber Extrema were bookshelf in size but if I recall, it was over 40KG each in weight. Probably need one heckova industrial bookshelf to hold those. The Extremas were definitely floorstander in presentation but yet Stereophile refused to give it a class A rating. Why? If memory serves, it's because Stereophile only awarded class A to speakers which could attain a 20hz bottom end. And the Extrema? Well it nudged 27hz in room, so no class A. Just 7hz shy!!! But impressed they were.

High sensitive floorstander r hard to tame. It need a very quiet n delicate pre n poweramp to drive it. As I up grade my speaker from TAD TSM300 to Tannoy Westminster, I face great challenge. Change my tube poweramp from 70w push pull > 20w PP > 8w SET. Preamp from 6922 super cathode follower > 2a3 tranformer couple pre > 45 trans line output pre. I have no regret. And I will never turn back for a bookshelf speaker, they just sound not quite right to me.

1. Re : Magico V2, yes I stand corrected. For some wierd reason I always thought they were non-floorstanders.

2. I believe our terminology needs some correction or fine-tuning. It is not accurate to call all non-floorstanding speakers 'bookshelf' speakers. The original bookshelf speakers were designed to be small and light-ish and to be played when placed on a studio console, on a table top, cupboard, on bookshelves (hence the name) and so forth. But there are many speakers which are not designed in this mould and yet requires to be supported on something in order to be placed at the correct height. The Sonus Faber Extrema is the prime example. The original Wilson WATT (without the Puppy) is another example. As is the Sonus Faber Gunarei (spelling is wrong I think) Homage which comes with its own dedicated stand. And I am sure there are other such speakers, excellent in their own right but requiring dedicated or generic supports i.e. speaker stands to work correctly. The Spendor SP2 and SP1 for e.g. also requires support but certainly we cannot seriously call the SP1 a 'bookshelf speaker' (though it is a BBC monitor in the best of tradition). So perhaps a change of terms, floorstanders vs 'standed-speakers' (i.e. speakers requiring a stand to work correctly) should be used in this discussion.

3. I have often people commenting that big speakers can give 'big' sound in the negative sense. Sflam's description is one often made example. However, I myself have not heard those gigantic image sizes like sflam described (though I suspect he took some dramatic liberties with those descriptions in order to drive the point across). Certainly if we are to talk about a drummer with 10feet wide arms, then it implies the speakers are placed more than 10feet apart. Typical manufacturer recommended spacing between speakers are seldom above 6 to 8 feet. So this part I cannot correlate. Someone who might want to make fun of me might say it is because I have not heard a lot of systems and thus do not have the (mis?)-fortune of hearing such a system, which would be true of course. But still, I cannot visualize any system as producing such 'larger than life' imaging.

KN,

1- Perhaps the term 'standmount' speakers is appropriate ... it's being used by most of the magazines nowaday.

2- You must excuse sflam, it's the stuff he smokes or puts in his coffee ...

SJ, hmmm.... whatever your friend is taking, sure sounds like potent stuff. I can imagine now, taking a double dose of the stuff and then putting 'one of those' DVDs into the DVD player... WOW, HUGE !!!

Great! I am looking forward to it.. might bring along my 'goodies' to share while we're at it!

bimmerman wrote:

CT-Boy wrote:bimmerman,
I used to do that, partnering a sub with my bookshelves... I was happy until I heard a transmission line floorstander...

Yeah CT, i've been on the same route too. I've partnered B&W Solids with a Cervin Vega sub back in the 1980s and had a good rocking time, then a pair of Kef Coda 7s with a Kef sub, got big sound but nothing special. Then one day I auditioned a setup which to my ears did everything from imaging to speed to scale and everything right and that system sounded like a million bucks even next to those million buck floorstanders. Best of all, it sounded just right instead of being unnaturally larger than life like Sflam said.

If I suceed, please come for a listen. Hope to get it done by the end of this month.

CT-Boy wrote:Nope! It was one of the best upgrades I ever made! Now I have 2 pairs floorstanders..

i have 3 pairs

thinking on letting go one pair ~ kef Q35.2

floorstanders serves me well..

noodle88 wrote:High sensitive floorstander r hard to tame. It need a very quiet n delicate pre n poweramp to drive it. As I up grade my speaker from TAD TSM300 to Tannoy Westminster, I face great challenge. Change my tube poweramp from 70w push pull > 20w PP > 8w SET. Preamp from 6922 super cathode follower > 2a3 tranformer couple pre > 45 trans line output pre. I have no regret. And I will never turn back for a bookshelf speaker, they just sound not quite right to me.

Brother Noodles,

Just a thought, i'm probably incorrect but what if those mighty massive Tannoy Wesminsters require a room of much larger proportions than the one you currently have? With the added listening distance, the noise would not be such a big problem then no? and you might then be able to go back up to 20watts or 70? I think the noise problem could be your near field listening position with these big fellas. What do you think?

enzo520 wrote:As Title :

Is there anyone regretted upgrading from Bookshelf speaker to Floorstander Speaker ?
"Due to several aspect like Room Space/Amp/Player/Cable....."

Anyone can share ?

no regret. I am having fun by moving from b/shelf and to f/stander and vice versa.

b/s - i enjoy night listening and multitasking listening
f/s - ideal for music that means for blasting
my current move is to big bookshelf that compromise both. Hope i can settle down for few years

bimmerman wrote:

noodle88 wrote:High sensitive floorstander r hard to tame. It need a very quiet n delicate pre n poweramp to drive it. As I up grade my speaker from TAD TSM300 to Tannoy Westminster, I face great challenge. Change my tube poweramp from 70w push pull > 20w PP > 8w SET. Preamp from 6922 super cathode follower > 2a3 tranformer couple pre > 45 trans line output pre. I have no regret. And I will never turn back for a bookshelf speaker, they just sound not quite right to me.

Brother Noodles,

Just a thought, i'm probably incorrect but what if those mighty massive Tannoy Wesminsters require a room of much larger proportions than the one you currently have? With the added listening distance, the noise would not be such a big problem then no? and you might then be able to go back up to 20watts or 70? I think the noise problem could be your near field listening position with these big fellas. What do you think?

Bimmerman, I'm working for a bigger Hifi area(14.5' x 35' x 10(h) . I'm trying to use my 20w PP amp for music that highly dynamic. As for vocal, my 300b power with 45 preamp would serve me well. Hopefully I will be able to get it done by beginning of next year so that we can listern the big fellow perform in a bigger area.

I think bookshelf or floorstander is not the question here, i have seen many FS with the internal volume of less than 40L while some BS can have as much as 50L or more.
It is the size or the numbers of drivers that really counts.
Above all it is the taste and quality that we are after for.

Irrespective to speakers of any kind, it must play music well. How it is done is not important. Owner's understanding of music reproduction is more significant in hifi pursuit. Speakers, bookshelf or floor standers, amps of flea power SET, high power PP, high current SS amp, etc. are recipe meant to convey music information, and nothing is absolute IMHO.

Able owners have little attachment to any specific approach/viewpoint, takes what's best serve the music; less able owners can use money to do the job. In either case, they should bring us closer to music. I don't really care what the ancillaries are, if it serve me good music, I will shake your hand and said "Well done!"

Jo Ki

Agreed with Jo Ki.
It doesn't matter how one achieves his/her own "audio nirvana". The important thing is to enjoy the music one desires.
All those theories and myths about floorstanders, bookshelf and stand-mounters are just that - theories and myths.
It is the practical application and the end result that matters.

Many bookshelf speakers sound as good as stand-mounters and many stand-mounters sound better than floorstanders.

As in reviews of hifi equipment, different equipment is often used with the reviewed item to find the best possible combination compatible with the reviewed item. Even then, the reviewer is limited by the equipment available to him for the review.

Bookshelf speakers, stand-mounters and floorstander all have their pros and cons. As the name suggests, bookshelf speakers are perhaps best suited in a small room like a study. Put a floorstander in there and there will be problems. Standmounters are meant for mid sized rooms while floorstanders are meant for large rooms. Again, these are all generalisations. There are many exceptions. Some standmounters are big enough to perform in an environment meant for floorstanders.

There aren't any fixed rules - just guidelines. Use common sense and let the ears be the judge.

Just my opinion .........

jokiarch wrote:Irrespective to speakers of any kind, it must play music well. How it is done is not important. Owner's understanding of music reproduction is more significant in hifi pursuit. Speakers, bookshelf or floor standers, amps of flea power SET, high power PP, high current SS amp, etc. are recipe meant to convey music information, and nothing is absolute IMHO.

Able owners have little attachment to any specific approach/viewpoint, takes what's best serve the music; less able owners can use money to do the job. In either case, they should bring us closer to music. I don't really care what the ancillaries are, if it serve me good music, I will shake your hand and said "Well done!"

Jo Ki

Wisest and most sensible post in this thread so far.

Let nothing gets in the way of the music!

tannoy wrote:
It is the size or the numbers of drivers that really counts.

personally i do not like speakers that have lots of drivers cos u will problems with the crossovers - phase shifts, spikes or dips in the frequency graph at the crossover points, etc.

i would go for a maximum of three drivers - 3-way systems like the larger ATCs and PMCs.

Actually it all depends on the implementation, as usual (which dictates the cost as well). The other extreme of your arguement is from the acoustatic crowd who prefer speakers with one single membrane and thus no cross-over to speak of. So fans of such speakers says that the seamless sound is something we need to listen to, to experience, before we know what we have been missing. On the other hand, many of the top speakers have more than your prefered 3 drivers :- Wilson Grand-Slam and JMLabs Grand Utopia are the two I am fortunate enough to have experienced before. I also heard a pair of Pipedreams recently, thanks to a very good friend and after fine-tuning, it sounded good as well. And that speaker have LOTS of drivers (and 'LOTS' is an understatement here ! ).