Any regrets upgrading from bookshelf speakers to floorstanders?

wongkn wrote:

The other extreme of your arguement is from the acoustatic crowd who prefer speakers with one single membrane and thus no cross-over to speak of. So fans of such speakers says that the seamless sound is something we need to listen to, to experience, before we know what we have been missing.

i hv yet to hear a full-range speaker that can reproduce the lowest and highest octaves.

IMHO Single driver normally works best with vocal and slower material but when it comes to the fast and furious then nothing does better than a multi driver system.

Actually, neither have I (heard an acoustatic that produces the whole frequency spectrum convincingly) but I am cautious and have always reserved my judgement because the truth is probably that I have not heard -the right- system yet. So what I don't know, doesn't mean it doesn't exist (that's my motto anyway). There are so many acoustatic owners and fans, surely it cannot be that -every- one of them do not want a full range sound....

wongkn wrote:

There are so many acoustatic owners and fans, surely it cannot be that -every- one of them do not want a full range sound....

i heard a system based on a coral full-range speaker. the owner connected a jensen supertweeter and a diy sub-woofer to augment the top and bottom octaves.

now, isn't that a three-way system?

WongKN wrote:Actually, neither have I (heard an acoustatic that produces the whole frequency spectrum convincingly) but I am cautious and have always reserved my judgement because the truth is probably that I have not heard -the right- system yet. So what I don't know, doesn't mean it doesn't exist (that's my motto anyway). There are so many acoustatic owners and fans, surely it cannot be that -every- one of them do not want a full range sound....

What's your definition of the -right system- Wong? That's surely a highly debatable issue but nevertheless lets hear it from you.

As for wanting the full range sound, it's more of a double edge sword I think. Especially when it comes to the bass section. Not everyone I know likes to have a full range bass in the region of 20-30hz simply because with the right materials/recordings, the lower registers may rattle ceilings or sound too emotionally disturbing to them.

As for me I also feel the same with the bass. I do have a system that reaches the lowest octave and there are certain tracks that have sub sonic info I sometimes feel uncomfortable listening. It's better to hide it by not reproducing it.

cheers.

Your take on the bass is interesting Wikin. As for your question, I do not have a completely comprehensive analysis of my listening preferences, never did so.

But I do know that my primary and most basic requirement is that music 'flows'. It is probably difficult to explain in words. Basically when we hear a certain rendition, we somehow enjoy it, the song flows naturally, whatever genre it is. If it is rock, we get carried long with the song, tapping our feet, bobbing our head, etc. If it is a sentimental song, it drags out sad memories from inside our head, a superb rendition of an emotional song -FORCES- those sad memories from inside our deepest thoughts. There are times when tears can swell out in our eyes because of those memories. Some people call it musicality, some call it other things.

So to me, if the system cannot reproduce music that can move me emotionally, then I do not like it (I won't accept that it is wrong, just that I -personally- do not like it). Because my taste runs quite wide, eventhough I do tend to stick to the more established artistes most of the time, this means that I need good, clear reproduction of the whole frequency. For e.g., due to my liking for certain type of rock music, like from Queen, Dire Straits, etc, I need a certain degree of slam from the bass, because that is what I hear from a live band and my experience is without the 'slam' I do not enjoy the music that much. There must also be a certain degree of 'energy' from the performance, again difficult to explain, but somehow the music makes me feel 'alive', glad that music can be so motivating.

But other than this, I will admit I simply have not bothered to sit down and analyze, take apart, the components of a musical piece and identify the specific parts that 'floats my boat'.

Again, I hope that it is noticed I took great pains to use words like 'MY preference', what -I- like, 'float my boat'. To me, as I have explained before, one of the first thing I learned from the lecturer when I took Music Theory '101' in uni as an audit course is that music is universal but it is also very personal. No one person has the right to say his or her views of music is the absolute correct one.

Having said that, I know that in the 'other forum' that you participate actively in, recently there have been a sort of discussion, even 'debate' on the 'cornerstones' of music by one member. I find that interesting from a passive observer because from my point of view anyway, everyone was talking about the same thing but as different forumers have different background as well as varying degree of musical training (from none to familar, etc), different terms and different ways were being used to see basically the same thing and at one stage there was clear misunderstanding.

Nevertheless, if I am pressed, I would say that '4 cornerstone' is quite in agreement to me, though I would probably add a little bit more if I am really forced into analysing it, as did your forum member did. But eventhough I am a science freak, I never did bother to seriously sit down and analyze my own musical preference.

Maybe others can similarly share their views as well ?

What I am proud of is that in this thread, eventhough there can be clear disagreement, everyone has been very courteous and this to me shows that forumers here are generally matured. I.e. people knows that others can and will have different opinions and they respect it. It promotes healthy discussion and eventually everyone learns from each other.

Hi Wikin, the bass that you describe is bad bass. Good bass should not rattle your house, nor should it make you feel uncomfortable. What it should do is add to the ambience of the music and make it feel "correctly sized".

If you ever make it to Melbourne, feel free to drop in and listen to my system. With my subwoofers on, you can barely tell they are there. I have tuned them so that they are unobtrusive. But when I turn them off, you will definitely notice a difference - the weight of an orchestra is gone, and the soundstage seems to collapse. Music which is supposed to sound menacing only sounds annoyed

I am a big believer in the full range experience.

WongKK wrote:Hi Wikin, the bass that you describe is bad bass. Good bass should not rattle your house, nor should it make you feel uncomfortable. What it should do is add to the ambience of the music and make it feel "correctly sized".

If you ever make it to Melbourne, feel free to drop in and listen to my system. With my subwoofers on, you can barely tell they are there. I have tuned them so that they are unobtrusive. But when I turn them off, you will definitely notice a difference - the weight of an orchestra is gone, and the soundstage seems to collapse. Music which is supposed to sound menacing only sounds annoyed

I am a big believer in the full range experience.

Yes, listen and experience the good and correct bass setup yourselves is better than thousand words.

In a balanced sound with good bass setup, one will still "see" the "flow of controlled bass" even if the setup is played very softly. This mentioned bass is neither overwhelming nor thick but just there, supporting the whole picture of music.

As i always say, well-tuned controlled bass with correct body, depth, weight and low bass to music is like foundation of a building. But sadly many still don't really know how it should be sounding and get it correctly tuned.

wikin wrote:
Especially when it comes to the bass section. Not everyone I know likes to have a full range bass in the region of 20-30hz simply because with the right materials/recordings, the lower registers may rattle ceilings or sound too emotionally disturbing to them.

i would like to know how bass in the 20-30Hz region can be emotionally disturbing.

can the sound of a double bass, the left hand keys of a piano, the lower notes of an organ, the bass drum, the lower notes of a cello, bassoon, etc, be emotionally disturbing? emotionally moving, yes, but disturbing?

if u mean the low-frequency effects in sensurround movies like jet planes taking off in Top Gun and the 'doooomphhh!' footsteps of dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, then i can agree that these low-bass effects can rattle the ceiling and windows and be emotionally disturbing.

Hi all,

Very interesting feedback from everyone. I myself have tried both BS and FS using the same system. Some speakers just blend it nicely which saves me from changing other components in the system. The one time that I had to start changing the components is when I changed my speakers to EPOS M12.2. I started to loose the bass that I like from previous speakers of TDL (FS), Mission and Heybrook (BS). Had to change my CDP, cable and IC twice before getting some level of low end satisfaction. But moving back to FS (ProAc), everything went back into place and very satisfied now.

In other words, I still feel, regardless of BS an FS, if it is being matched properly with the remaining components of your system, it can still sing gracefully.

WongKN wrote:
But I do know that my primary and most basic requirement is that music 'flows'. It is probably difficult to explain in words. Basically when we hear a certain rendition, we somehow enjoy it, the song flows naturally, whatever genre it is. If it is rock, we get carried long with the song, tapping our feet, bobbing our head, etc. If it is a sentimental song, it drags out sad memories from inside our head, a superb rendition of an emotional song -FORCES- those sad memories from inside our deepest thoughts. There are times when tears can swell out in our eyes because of those memories. Some people call it musicality, some call it other things.

So to me, if the system cannot reproduce music that can move me emotionally, then I do not like it (I won't accept that it is wrong, just that I -personally- do not like it). Because my taste runs quite wide, eventhough I do tend to stick to the more established artistes most of the time, this means that I need good, clear reproduction of the whole frequency. For e.g., due to my liking for certain type of rock music, like from Queen, Dire Straits, etc, I need a certain degree of slam from the bass, because that is what I hear from a live band and my experience is without the 'slam' I do not enjoy the music that much. There must also be a certain degree of 'energy' from the performance, again difficult to explain, but somehow the music makes me feel 'alive', glad that music can be so motivating.

Having a wide range of musical diet sound like mine too. On the contrary, 2 blokes can have similar musical taste but the eventual system setup could sound totally different hence it still boils down to different ears and different interpretation of music - not forgetting different sets of setup skills too.

If there's 1 point to highlight, do you think it's important to replay music at realistic volumes to close the gap between live and reproduced, or are you relatively content with a scaled down reproduction?

cheers

.....the region of 20-30hz simply because with the right materials/recordings, the lower registers may rattle ceilings

All structures resonates. The right frequency can excite them. If you have a subwoofer and and speakers with a flat room frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz, any rattles you hear is not the subwoofer's problem but the other things in the room which need to be corrected.

Wikin wrote:

WongKN wrote:
...

Having a wide range of musical diet sound like mine too. On the contrary, 2 blokes can have similar musical taste but the eventual system setup could sound totally different hence it still boils down to different ears and different interpretation of music - not forgetting different sets of setup skills too.

If there's 1 point to highlight, do you think it's important to replay music at realistic volumes to close the gap between live and reproduced, or are you relatively content with a scaled down reproduction?

cheers

Wikin,

About your point above, I think 'realistic' really do depend. I myself play loud but only on certain music. For e.g. if I play rock and pop music from the likes of Queen, Dire Straits, or even certain Linda Ronstadt songs -softly-, I seriously think I will be missing the point of the music. But it doesn't mean arbitrarily loud, as in I play as loud as I can or until my ears hurt. But, and this part is probably contentious, my friends & I feel that we need to play such music at a certain minimum volume for it to come 'alive'. And a good rock piece won't mean anything if it doesn't feel 'alive'. In this sense, I want to feel 'energized' by the listening.

But for a lot of other music, it really do depend on the preference and even 'reference point' of the individual. For e.g. I used to follow reviews a lot (don't really bother anymore) and I notice that when listening to classical music, many good reviewers will make references to the -sitting position- in relation to the concert hall, when making a judgement on the realism of the music reproduction, in terms of how 'real' it is. From personal experience, the actual volume -loudness- in absolute terms of a classical music piece is highly dependent on the sitting position. This is why the MPO (to use an example many people will relate to) charges a lot higher for certain 'premium seats' in their hall, because that is where the 'theoretically correct' loudness is supposed to be for the listener.

This listening position also affects the overall balance of the sound because different frequencies carries differently with distance between source (instrument) and the listener. So a bass drum have different 'impact' between premium seats and 'reserved A' and especially 'reserved B' seats (to use the MPO example). The perceived imaging, soundstaging, etc of the orchestra also depends a lot on the seating position. I remember vividly how dissapointed I was when I listened to 'Pictures At An Exhibition' played by a visiting symphony orchestra way back when the MPO was first established. The drums just -DID NOT- have the impact I expected it to have and it detracted from the dramatic impact of the piece. But then it was because I was late and I couldn't get premium seats and I was sitting in reserved B because that concert was extremely popular (Malaysians tend to flock and fight for the latest fashion, now the MPO concert attendances are falling off drastically).

The same will apply for ALL kinds of music. Do you stand at the front of the stage in a QUEEN concert ? It would be fantastic in terms of the interaction with Freddie Mercury (one of my big laments is that I did not have the financial ability to attend a live Queen concert when Freddie was alive). But what is the loudness from that position ? What about those who stands near the huge PA speakers ? What about those very far back ?

When we listen to soft music, live, where do we sit ? In fact, we CAN we sit before we will get more of the amplified music instead of the live music, in a live concert ?

So unfortunately, I fully admit my rule of 'how loud' I play for 'realistic volume' is quite arbitrary.

sflam wrote:

wikin wrote:
Especially when it comes to the bass section. Not everyone I know likes to have a full range bass in the region of 20-30hz simply because with the right materials/recordings, the lower registers may rattle ceilings or sound too emotionally disturbing to them.

i would like to know how bass in the 20-30Hz region can be emotionally disturbing.

can the sound of a double bass, the left hand keys of a piano, the lower notes of an organ, the bass drum, the lower notes of a cello, bassoon, etc, be emotionally disturbing? emotionally moving, yes, but disturbing?

if u mean the low-frequency effects in sensurround movies like jet planes taking off in Top Gun and the 'doooomphhh!' footsteps of dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, then i can agree that these low-bass effects can rattle the ceiling and windows and be emotionally disturbing.

In my earlier post to WongKK I was referring to spurious sub sonic information in the music that irritates me - and that's when I'm trying to relax to the music.
Then again I'm not against sub sonic stuffs - without proper bass foundation the natural musical instruments like the ones you've described above won't sound like the real thing agree?

As for high adrenalin movies I do enjoy the subs pumping out low hz. This is when I'm winding up to the movie - so it's a totally different mood altogether at that time.

cheers.

WongKK wrote:Hi Wikin, the bass that you describe is bad bass. Good bass should not rattle your house, nor should it make you feel uncomfortable. What it should do is add to the ambience of the music and make it feel "correctly sized".

If you ever make it to Melbourne, feel free to drop in and listen to my system. With my subwoofers on, you can barely tell they are there. I have tuned them so that they are unobtrusive. But when I turn them off, you will definitely notice a difference - the weight of an orchestra is gone, and the soundstage seems to collapse. Music which is supposed to sound menacing only sounds annoyed

I am a big believer in the full range experience.

Hi WongKK,
Somehow my earlier post reply to you got missing.

Yes surely I will meet up with you when I'm down under.

As for the bass I was referring to spurious subsonic information that I find irritating when I'm trying to relax to music from e.g. album Peter Paul & Mary. I had to tune down my subs and reposition my seating position so that it's not too flat down to 20hz.

Pls don't get me wrong I love high quality bass and especially when listening to full range orchestra, jazz stuffs, chinese opera, bass is really fundamental. One of my fav is Patricia Barber's Live a Fortnight in France.

Not too much of a rock head my self though.

cheers.

STC wrote:

.....the region of 20-30hz simply because with the right materials/recordings, the lower registers may rattle ceilings

All structures resonates. The right frequency can excite them. If you have a subwoofer and and speakers with a flat room frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz, any rattles you hear is not the subwoofer's problem but the other things in the room which need to be corrected.

Coming from a technical point of view on structures it surely makes sense and I agree with you.

Guess what.... there are other ppl with different school of thoughts. One of them that I've been told is completely opposite to the theory above. It mentions that the setup is wongly tuned such that the bass rattles the room. If the bass is properly tuned/setup it won't rattle anything other than giving good punch to the listener. Go figure

cheers.

There are many who still cannot differentiate mid bass, mid low and low bass. Most of the time they think mid bass which gives punch to listeners chests, is the correct low bass.
The actual low bass will rattle surface of sofa or ceiling even your eardrums, without hearing it or heard in very soft volume ( depending on your hearing sensitivity ) but you can still "feel" it.

Always listening to Very High volume level could easily deteriorate one's hearing and eventually one will able to "detect" midrange only.

Always protect your hearing for your long term music enjoyment.

Wikin wrote:..Guess what.... there are other ppl with different school of thoughts. One of them that I've been told is completely opposite to the theory above. It mentions that the setup is wongly tuned such that the bass rattles the room. If the bass is properly tuned/setup it won't rattle anything other than giving good punch to the listener. Go figure ..

I am sorry but it is difficult to agree with the abovementioned school of thought. If I were to loosen a few screws in the ceiling, place a glass with a spoon next to the subwoofer and do other things so that now my quiet room rattles whenever the sub kicks in then it would turn my bass into poorly tuned sub?

wikin wrote:

As for the bass I was referring to spurious subsonic information that I find irritating when I'm trying to relax to music from e.g. album Peter Paul & Mary.

if u r listening to cd, there shld be no spurious subsonic info cos the lowest signal is 20Hz.

however, if u r listening to vinyl there cld be subsonic info caused by rumble of the turntable motor/bearing or a warp (which can cause an 8Hz signal) or the subsonic distortions cld be cut into the grooves due to the rumble of the cutting head.

the subsonic info can also be caused by something or other in the studio while recording and picked up by the microphones and recorded in the master tape and then pressed into the grooves.

some phono preamps have a rumble filter. so you can just press it and cut off the spurious subsonic info.

I am in agreement to Wong KK's descriptions on low bass extension and what it will do, not only to the 'body' metaphor of sound, but more importantly, it has tremendous effects on the spectrum of the staging like the "space" cue, ambient air.

Cutting the low octave by switching off the sub, the entire soundstage collapse is so true. On closer analysis, you loose not only the low bass frequency range, but across the entire band including, almost equally amount, to the high frequency extension that suggest Ambient Space & micro-dynamism.

This is hardly mind boggling if you understand the physical character of Sound. Which explained why I could never live without my subwoofer and why I had spent more money on my sub than my main speakers suggest the importance of it.

Jo Ki

sflam wrote:
if u r listening to cd, there shld be no spurious subsonic info cos the lowest signal is 20Hz.
.

Did you read that from the cd player's manual?

off topic:

Jo, how on earth did you end up with a '-2' reputation?

Wikin wrote:off topic:

Jo, how on earth did you end up with a '-2' reputation?

handicap to encourage competitiveness

[/quote]Cutting the low octave by switching off the sub, the entire soundstage
collapse is so true. On closer analysis, you loose not only the low bass frequency range, but across the entire band including, almost equally amount, to the high frequency extension that suggest Ambient Space & micro-dynamism. [/quote]


i raise whatever parts "raisable" in the witness stand to agree with jo!

i take this opportunity to claim that i have come across less than a handful of setups of floorstanders without subwoofer(s) managed to squeeze low bass out to reasonable extent to support the frequency spectrum reproducable by their setups, alas other owners refused/failed to believe in the incompleteness of their setups worse still, i have perceived that many of these owners egoistically claim (directly/indirectly) that their setups don't need subwoofer(s)

i also take this opportunity to say that once i brought an audiobro from sandakan to audition a setup with small jmlab floorstanders (without any subwoofer) driven by mc30 monoblocks (just 30watters), wowwow... ground hitting and ground breaking low bass!!! highly notably, another setup in kuching of small floorstanders, wowwowwow... other than ground hitting and ground breaking, the low bass came up extremely articulate, controlled, well paced and mind you, the owner never deployed subwoofer(s) but SET-UP SKILLS when i confidently opined that the bass went well below 40hz, oh yes, the owner confirmed the floor limit as 30+hz as per the paper promises

these 2 setups simply remind/assure me that set-up skills are indispensable in bringing out low bass in particular, whilst the paper promises of speaker manufacters may only boost ego of just any egoistic individual but may fail to substantiate




happy setting up/happy with continuing egoism

cheers

You know Wikin, for many years I lived without a subwoofer and I usually hated systems which had subwoofers. Then as I grew more and more experienced, I started to realize that most subwoofer owners have no idea how to dial them in. They want to hear the sub, so the volume is turned right up. They usually do not bother setting the phase of the sub (its not easy) and they very rarely have any room treatment or subwoofer correction. On top of that, many of them listen to electronic music or rock - so when I put my classical music into the system it sounds horrendous with a huge bottom end which drowns out the rest of the music. One guy even had his sub in the corner, which unevenly loaded the room. It was a curious feeling to have the ear on one side of the head aching while the other was OK.

On a system like that, no sub is preferable to having a sub.

This was until I came across "good bass". I learnt that integrating the subwoofer is more important than the quality of the subwoofer itself, which was somewhat of an epiphany! Even if you have the latest Velodyne, JL Audio, or REL sub - it will sound horrible if you put it in a corner, turn it up too loud, or fail to take care of the peaks and nulls in the bass response. A cheap sub which is well dialled in will always sound superior.

I think that anyone who is contemplating a subwoofer needs to invest in some kind of measurement tool. I set up my subwoofer with a CD full of test tones, a SPL meter, and wrote down the SPL at various frequencies - but it was REALLY tiresome. These days I have a calibrated microphone, USB sound card with phantom power, and a laptop running REW. It is much superior. If you do not take measurements or run frequency sweeps - you won't know what is happening.

The volume of the room rather than the floor plan size of the room will determine the quality of the bass that one can squeeze out of from his system. Like the upper frequencies which will open up, bass will also open up with proper extension and details in a correct environment, ie setup and room volume.
A two speakers system is already not easy to setup let alone adding a third variable in a form of a single subwoofer or four variables in a stereo subwoofers system. The phasing of the subwoofers and their locations in relation to the monitors will determine the final quality of the whole spectrum of the frequencies.
Once you have experienced the full frequencies spectrum audio reproduction it would be difficult to live without it

I just want a Wilson Audio Sasha ....

I downgraded from a floorstander to a bookshelf. When I bought my floorstand, I act upon impulse and bought it back, just to find that it;s not suitable for my room. I downgrade it to bookshelf. Sometimes, it's not because you want it to be floorstander or bookshelf, but the room is a very important factor as well

Wikin wrote:off topic:

Jo, how on earth did you end up with a '-2' reputation?

Hi Wikin,

I don't know how I ended up with "-2" reputation also. It must be my lacks. Perhaps Wong KN could guide you? I guess it is not a good example that you should emulates.

Jo Ki

bassraptor wrote:I just want a Wilson Audio Sasha ....

for me - Wilson Audio Sophia 3 cukup lah

the qualities I look for - besides low distortion, low colouration and free from 'boxiness' :-
1) full frequency range, especially low freq
2) reach life like loudness (when required) without 'breaking' up
(of course with matching amp to give the necessary juice) .........

tlkoo wrote:
i raise whatever parts "raisable" in the witness stand to agree with jo!

i take this opportunity to claim that i have come across less than a handful of setups of floorstanders without subwoofer(s) managed to squeeze low bass out to reasonable extent to support the frequency spectrum reproducable by their setups, alas other owners refused/failed to believe in the incompleteness of their setups worse still, i have perceived that many of these owners egoistically claim (directly/indirectly) that their setups don't need subwoofer(s)

i also take this opportunity to say that once i brought an audiobro from sandakan to audition a setup with small jmlab floorstanders (without any subwoofer) driven by mc30 monoblocks (just 30watters), wowwow... ground hitting and ground breaking low bass!!! highly notably, another setup in kuching of small floorstanders, wowwowwow... other than ground hitting and ground breaking, the low bass came up extremely articulate, controlled, well paced and mind you, the owner never deployed subwoofer(s) but SET-UP SKILLS when i confidently opined that the bass went well below 40hz, oh yes, the owner confirmed the floor limit as 30+hz as per the paper promises

these 2 setups simply remind/assure me that set-up skills are indispensable in bringing out low bass in particular, whilst the paper promises of speaker manufacters may only boost ego of just any egoistic individual but may fail to substantiate

happy setting up/happy with continuing egoism

cheers

Hi Koo, You are quite correct, it takes awful lots of set-up skill to bring out a coherent yet homogeneous bass in a given system, with or without sub irrespectively. It is a perfect understanding of balance and seamless integration and never about earth shaking level that overwhelm the entire upper octaves.

Commonly, we find most floor standers are intentionally having the bass curtailed to devoid of bass boom. Likewise, I also hear quite some bookshelf speaker system, with sub, doing the same thing. Conversely, most bookshelf speakers system without sub has severe augmented bass, which is also not quite right.

Apart from linear bandwidth integration, the most difficult element in bass integration has to be the characters; homogeneous across the entire band is the key and it ensures a continuous from low, mid and high in a stress-free, open yet exuberant manner. Such level of performance are not devoid of dynamic contrast in amplitude, and it has unlimited agility to follow the dynamic explosive rise/fall in "natural manner" IMHO.

Jo Ki

tlkoo wrote:

Wikin wrote:off topic:

Jo, how on earth did you end up with a '-2' reputation?

handicap to encourage competitiveness

Hi Koo, my reputation raised to "-1" out of no apparent reason! I must warn you, handicap drop to one place point only. I am coming close to you already... Watch-out! HiiHiii...

jokiarch wrote:

tlkoo wrote:

Wikin wrote:off topic:

Jo, how on earth did you end up with a '-2' reputation?

handicap to encourage competitiveness

Hi Koo, my reputation raised to "-1" out of no apparent reason! I must warn you, handicap drop to one place point only. I am coming close to you already... Watch-out! HiiHiii...

No man, I did a +1 for you...haha. Definitely not a sympathy vote. BTW, just checking, can you see a 'Thanks' button somewhere at the top of each post?

Hmmm... NOW I know what Wikin and Jo are talking about. For a while I didn't know what that '-2' was referring to. Now, why would anyone downrate Jo's post rating ? It would need someone putting in negative rating to lower it to -2 and, yes I admit I am probably biased because Jo is my friend, but honestly I have never read a post from Jo that talks anything but useful facts and advices.

On another matter, it seems that many people do agree with me that a 'full-range' frequency response is the right way but it is something very elusive and also difficult to understand until one experiences it.

Hi-Fi 4 Sale wrote:

BTW, just checking, can you see a 'Thanks' button somewhere at the top of each post?

I tried to look for it but still can't find it. Wait a minute.. I saw something new called "Character Sheet".

Ohhh...sorry about the 'Thanks' button. It only works if you are the topic starter and you can only do it once per topic. See: http://help.forumotion.com/t38434-reputation-system-evaluation-thanks-button

The Character Sheet is something you can generate at: http://www.hifi4sale.net/profile?mode=editprofile. Feel free to populate it, based on the stuff you have.

There is a +/- button at the top of each post, on the right. I just gave jokiarch a + and his nett reputation is now zero

WongKK wrote:There is a +/- button at the top of each post, on the right. I just gave jokiarch a + and his nett reputation is now zero

And because Jo helped me setup my music room with just 3 paragraphs of text via personal messaging, I am raising his reputation to +1. My tiny stand mounted Sonus fabers now take on the floorstanders with aplomb and then some. Cheers to you Jo, your advise was spot on!!!

bimmerman wrote:

WongKK wrote:There is a +/- button at the top of each post, on the right. I just gave jokiarch a + and his nett reputation is now zero

And because Jo helped me setup my music room with just 3 paragraphs of text via personal messaging, I am raising his reputation to +1. My tiny stand mounted Sonus fabers now take on the floorstanders with aplomb and then some. Cheers to you Jo, your advise was spot on!!!

You deserve +1 too, for getting your character sheet populated...

Back-scratching does you some good sometimes.

Hey thanks Mr. HF4Sale! Here's a little boost for you too.

Hi-Fi 4 Sale wrote:off topic:

No man, I did a +1 for you...haha. Definitely not a sympathy vote. BTW, just checking, can you see a 'Thanks' button somewhere at the top of each post?

Thank you Hi-Fi 4 Sale, much appreciated with your +1 which saved my reputation.

Jo Ki

WongKN wrote:Hmmm... NOW I know what Wikin and Jo are talking about. For a while I didn't know what that '-2' was referring to. Now, why would anyone downrate Jo's post rating ? It would need someone putting in negative rating to lower it to -2 and, yes I admit I am probably biased because Jo is my friend, but honestly I have never read a post from Jo that talks anything but useful facts and advices.

Hi Wong KN, I blieve someone had put a negative rating to my post(s). I will be more careful with my future writings, and perhaps, talk a bit less is also one of the way I could consider.

Thank you for your friendship.

Just to make this NOT off-topic, I think whichever type of speakers one is using, floor standers, stand mount or worst still, a pair of bookshelf, is not the main problem in getting into music. The main problem is the owner's understanding of the speakers ie. the abilities of the owner.

Speaker is like the girl we married, I know her best and she has qualities that works with mine best - complimenting my shortfalls/weakness. Not that she is the best girl in the world but she sure is the one that suits me best! And I would work with the same girl who has become my wife to walk the difficult paths of LIFE.

Imagine that you divorce the wife you marry every few years when you run into problems and see what you would accomplished down the line. IMHO, Constantly changing speakers out of no good reason is not a wise move if music is what I am after.


Jo Ki

Jo,

It's OK if there are people placing negative posts on us. I got a -1 too for one of the replies above. Don't take it too seriously, as long as you are writing what you truly believe in.

Cheers,

WongKK wrote:There is a +/- button at the top of each post, on the right. I just gave jokiarch a + and his nett reputation is now zero

Hi Wong KK, Thank you for your compliment, which I received with gratifying heart.

I especially like your post on low octaves which contributed by the sub, when done right, has those attributes that you mentioned. Not many would understand truly what this is about until one hear it in one's ears and experience the uncrontrollable joy in getting it!

I had long been a sub user with my deminutive LS3/5A just to boost the lower octaves and trying to increase my music repertoire beyond simple vocal and violin to concerto, ensemble. It is one of the most difficult octave to get it done right because of our hearing sensitivity drops with lower frequency range. It took me many many years to understand this. So I shared deeply with that posts of yours.

Jo Ki

Hi-Fi 4 Sale wrote:Jo,

It's OK if there are people placing negative posts on us. I got a -1 too for one of the replies above. Don't take it too seriously, as long as you are writing what you truly believe in.

Cheers,

Yes, it is OK with me too. I do get negative remarks all over town! If I was that easily affected by it. I would have "divorced" my LS3/5A and junk it like what others have said and lost tons of musical hours I have been enjoying.

We walk our own paths and find solace and our sanctuary in music.

TQ HF4S.

Jo Ki

bimmerman wrote:

And because Jo helped me setup my music room with just 3 paragraphs of text via personal messaging, I am raising his reputation to +1. My tiny stand mounted Sonus fabers now take on the floorstanders with aplomb and then some. Cheers to you Jo, your advise was spot on!!!

You are most welcome! My words are nothing when compared to your ability in understanding it, let alone implimenting it! Many would not be able to understand even with sketches! I am just glad that you managed and happy with what you are getting.

Congratulations!

Jo Ki

Thanks Joki. I have a new round of upgrades for my speakers happening this weekend. I had a new bass driver manufactured to my specifications to replace the crappy driver that came with my speakers. Will drop it in, then tweak the crossover and take a new set of measurements. Looking forward to it!