what to buy?

Good morning. I want to add more watts/power to existing system. I am using Audiolab 8000S with Rogers LS5/9 speakers. Is adding the Audiolab 8000M (monocblocks) or some other combo like PS Audio Delta 200 or McIntosh 100 or any other recommendations more suitable? Your opinions/experience are most appreciated.

good morning to u sir, i don't think by adding the audiolab monoblk would bring out the sound of LS 5/9 at all maybe the Mcintosh 100watter (tube power) would be able to bring out the sound. my friend have a pair of this roger LS 5/9 that he power up with Quicksilver monoblk 120Watter (tube power) n he told me is just sufficient to bring out the sound but is still not the best yet. bu the way where did u get this roger LS 5/9?

Alfred, good afternoon. thanks for the infor! i bought it many years ago from a car hifi shop along Jalan Ipoh (near Rainbow Garden). looks like i have to refrain from buying the audiolab monoblocks and look for something with more 'power'.

u know to own a pair of LS 3/5A is already a wonderful feeling but to own a LS 5/9 is like a dream come true n now this kind of speaker r real expensive. last two weeks i was at jaya one listening to a pair of Stirling ls 3/5a n he was driving it with a mcintosh SS 150watt n the reading from the two meter was about 3/4 just imaging how much power would the ls 5/9 need.

good morning and thanks. i feel even better now owning the ls5/9. want to get suitable amps for the speakers. with limited cash, the search goes on .....

happy searching for it. i think amcorp mall may have a krell or try going for audio research.

try looking at this http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell2/YaBB.pl?board=hifi&action=display&num=1306982443

alfred wrote:try looking at this http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell2/YaBB.pl?board=hifi&action=display&num=1306982443

Careful! Could be a scam!

alfred wrote:happy searching for it. i think amcorp mall may have a krell or try going for audio research.

Alfred,
Do you mind telling which Krell model and who's selling it in Amcorp? Thx

IMO, Krell is not a preferable option to drive a pair of 3/5a or 5/9. Try look for valve amps instead, especially pre+power or monobloc configurations. They are more compatible with those speakers.

Zeebee My Friend,

My friend who will be going away have a pair of mint condition Krell FPB 450 mono for sale.

Good Price to good friends

You interested?

VS126 wrote:Zeebee My Friend,

My friend who will be going away have a pair of mint condition Krell FPB 450 mono for sale.

Good Price to good friends

You interested?

My goood and 'fellow red carpet' friend Interested definitely yes but whether can afford or not another story but I'm sure a good friend like you can definitely recommend good price . BTW Good friend, just got news that the Maggies are going to cost a lot more than anticipated even the 1.7 is going up. so I may have just have to hang on to the ones I have at the moment

Yes, I wouldn't comment whether Krell would be ideal for the Rogers, it's a matter of opinion I suppose.

Friend..

Price going up?

A good stockmarket tip for you.

Hold on to yr 1.7, quickly lock-in the 3.7 before price goes up.

Eventually when the price goes up, sell yr 1.7 for handsome profit.

Cheers..How is yr Bali Trip??

any suggestions to use which/what amp for the ls5/9? my max budget around rm6000 only. currently using audiolab 8000s.

u can try some of this n use your audiolab for pre first later can upgrade
http://www.hifi4sale.net/t15382-vincent-germany-class-a-power-amplifier?highlight=power+amp
http://www.hifi4sale.net/t14564-mark-levinson-ml3-power-amp-used?highlight=power+amp u can nego with steven last time he give me the price for this is RM9K

Hello, .. if you wish to stay with solid state...try out old Quad amps,... 33-303, 44-405 or 34-306. I had a listen to ls5/9 many years ago... cannot really remember how they sound.. was just starting to listen then... where are you located ? If in KL, I could bring one of the Quad pre-power to listen ...
Regards
ChamTS

i don't even dare to recommend my threshold 200wpc pure class A to drive do u think the Quad would be able to? hahahah

Required amplifier power for this speaker is only 15 to 100 watts.

You can drive them with Quad...no problem.

No need pure Class A for this speaker, waste of electricity and bad for the earth. Only 15% efficiency and 85% electricity waste as heat.

Try BBC based 606 for more headroom coz this speaker got limited bass.

Price around RM2000 plus and is a workhorse.

VS126 wrote:Required amplifier power for this speaker is only 15 to 100 watts.

You can drive them with Quad...no problem.

No need pure Class A for this speaker, waste of electricity and bad for the earth. Only 15% efficiency and 85% electricity waste as heat.

Try BBC based 606 for more headroom coz this speaker got limited bass.

Price around RM2000 plus and is a workhorse.

Hi everyone, after reading through the numerous thread in this forum, i found that there is 2 school of thought among the "experienced audiophiles" - 1) Too much power for a 'small' speaker is a wastage & will not add to a better sounding setup. 2) The 2nd batch of audiophiles is of the opinion that the quality of some speaker regardless of the recommended power handling, will be further enhanced with more power. This argument was clearly seen & discussed to some extent between WONGKN with WONGKK at the below thread:-
http://www.hifi4sale.net/t16581-any-regrets-upgrading-from-bookshelf-speakers-to-floorstanders

I am not an expert or experienced audiophile to explain who is right & who is wrong but I was at Jaya One that fateful evening with Alfred to audition the Stirling LS3/5 a and it was one of my CD (BELIEVE by Katherine Jenkins, track no. 2 - Bring me to life) that shows us that the 150 watts in that mcintosh is trying very hard to cope with the transient near to the end of this track. Why do a speaker listed as amplifier requirements: 50W maximum, seems suddenly so hard to be drive efficiently (meaning to achieve the maximum results like what some audiophiles described as the speaker being 'disappeared' & only the sound is in front of us) by a 150 watters? To be fair, the mcintosh amp we audition on that day was reasonably powerful & have only a few minutes ago drove a pair of Vienna Acoustic with ease. A myth indeed ya

Comes back to the questions of whether a Quad amp can really drive an LS 5/9 - i believe it can but to what extend? Think of the above example on the smallish LS 3/5 a with a 150 watters and you will begin to wonder ...

Further, some said tube based amp is most suitable to drive the LS 5/9 and not Krell or likes of it. Well, the funny thing is that i heard a certain respectable guru have turned his back on tubes with his LS 3/5 a http://hifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/2010/05/state-of-heart-ki-method-mkii.html

hmmm, wonder how much watt is that FM pumping out and it was this setup with so much wastage of power that had so much rave & thumbs up during the last AV show, funny

Anyway, to prove which amp is suitable to drive a certain player is simple - audition, listen, be open minded & trust your ear.

My humble opinion only.

Regards,

The Novice in HIFI

kychoo99 wrote:
hmmm, wonder how much watt is that FM pumping out and it was this setup with so much wastage of power that had so much rave & thumbs up during the last AV show, funny

Hi Choo,

I am here and I am no Guru. Funny, I did not use FM power amp for the last hifi show. "Wastage of power" you said? Please check you facts first Even if I WAS using FM power amp, it has lesser power (wattage) than the Mc.

Jo Ki

jokiarch wrote:

kychoo99 wrote:
hmmm, wonder how much watt is that FM pumping out and it was this setup with so much wastage of power that had so much rave & thumbs up during the last AV show, funny

Hi Choo,

I am here and I am no Guru. Funny, I did not use FM power amp for the last hifi show. "Wastage of power" you said? Please check you facts first Even if I WAS using FM power amp, it has lesser power (wattage) than the Mc.

Jo Ki

Thought I saw a pair of Quad II-40 then.

Next month we shall see a pair of FM Acoustic

To me, the real issue is not outright power. If what we want is outright power, we just get a big minicompo. Some of them has listed power of 1000Watts PMPO !! My experiences suggests to me that it is more a characteristic of the amp which I like to term its 'driving ability'. In other words, how 'strong' the amp is. A low powered amp can be strong. A high powered amp can be weak. This 'strength' of the amp is its ability in controlling a speaker, especially difficult to drive ones. But even relatively easy to drive speakers will also benefit from a 'strong' amp. However, I do not believe we have a complete ability to measure this 'strength'. I have been reading about current delivery of the amp, or its ability to sustain the doubling of power output per halving of impedance, or its 'Q-factor' (damping factor). Similarly I have seen attempts to characterize the speaker load in terms of its impedance and sensitivity. I believe all of these electrical parameters can only measure a part of the very complex relationship between the amp and the speaker it drives.

I have tried to stay out of this thread until I saw my name dragged into it There are a number of anecdotes in here about how seemingly powerful solid state amps are unable to drive speakers that small valve amps seem to have no problem with. I can explain why, but you will have to bear with me.

A solid state amp is designed under what Ralph Karsten calls the "voltage paradigm" - these amps supply a constant voltage no matter what the impedance. If the impedance halves, the voltage stays constant but the amp will attempt to double the current. If the impedance doubles, the voltage stays constant but the current halves. These types of amplifiers are more versatile with loudspeakers, because all voltage drive amps behave the same way (except for power output) - i.e. it is more predictable. Loudspeaker designers can specify complex crossovers and highly reactive speaker drivers with the knowledge that the amplifier can damp nearly everything thrown at it.

A valve amp is designed under the "power paradigm" - these amps supply a constant current no matter what the impedance. If the impedance halves, the amp will try to supply the same current even as the voltage drops, and vice-versa. Furthermore, valve amplifiers are highly sensitive to the loudspeaker design - gain and distortion depend on the speaker's impedance curve, and each amplifier reacts differently. A valve friendly loudspeaker needs to have a constant impedance curve, and be critically damped.

In reality, most speakers have a rising impedance curve at the resonant frequency of the bass driver (Fs) and in the treble. Hook this speaker up to a valve amp, and (depending on the loudspeaker design) you will hear flabby bass or more bass, and rising treble. It seems to spring to life. However, hook this to a solid state amp - and the rising treble curve will cause power delivery to halve and make the speaker sound lifeless at the top - while the bass is over-damped and the speaker will seem to have less bass.

There is of course more to this - all I have talked about is impedance curves. I haven't said anything about how the crossovers, drivers, and the whole cabinet design is different depending on whether the speaker was optimized for valve or solid state. I have said nothing about the clipping characteristics of why a valve amp seems to sound more powerful than the equivalently specified solid state amp.

Some may remember that when solid state amplifiers were introduced in the 1970's, they all sounded horrible? I am too young to remember But I have heard SS amps with some vintage speakers. They are horrible.

Part of the reason was because nearly all speakers in the 70's were designed for valve amps. The other reason was because early SS amps were horrible - too much negative feedback, early transistors were too nonlinear, etc. You only need to look at a vintage speaker to see how it is different to a modern speaker. Not all of it is fashion, a lot of it was due to prevailing engineering attitudes at the time.

Anyway, my take on it is this - if you want versatility and predictability, choose a solid state amplifier. These will work with more speakers than a valve amp. If you want sound, choose a valve amp - but be aware that there will be more variability between valve amps than solid state amps. Some will sound worse than a SS amp, some will sound better. Depends on how much time you are willing to invest and your budget.

Oh, and BTW Choo - I believe in having more amplifier power than you need. I have a fully active 4 way system (i.e. each speaker driver has its own amplifier), and each amplifier is far in excess more powerful than what the driver needs. Having so much power in reserve means that:

- the speaker can hit dynamic peaks without running out of power or having the amps clip or compress
- the amplifiers are running at "low stress" in the most linear part of their operation and in full Class A mode

The downside is that having lots of power in reserve, especially quality power, costs money.

Hello thread owner...(Enjoy the music) ...
Where are you...?? My offer to bring over a set of old Quad amp to listen with the ls5/9 is still open. And no... I am not selling them... fact is my first hifi mentor most prized speaker at one time is the ls5/9... I am curious how it sound with Quad 33-303.
Hello Alfred... welcome to join in if you have not hear old Quad ss amp.
Kind regards. 012-777 1755

Good morning fellow hifi lovers! thanks for all the interesting inputs and sharing! chamts, thanks for the offer! i will call u. looks like the conclusion is, Audiolab 8000s is no no, if add 8000m it will be better but still not good enough to bring the ls5/9 to its max capability. due to budget, anyone knows if the local diy is reliable? was informed that the diy pre amp is very good value for money. n also diy power amps too. or perhaps if the pre amp is really good, may i match it with non-diy power amps? my definition of good diy is, 1)better than 8000s as a pre 2)value for money 3)reliable, will not cause short circuit or fire 4)lasting, will be problem free like 8000s, 5)any other important points that i missed. if some of you want to comment but shy away because its someone you know or do not want to 'hurt' anyone, appreciate if send me private message. i really want to know so that i go/choose the right path and hopefully minimize/save some cash or any least do not waste the cash into the wrong place. of course some may say go try it out and trust your ears, but my ears have very little experience and dont know what to listen for, proof is in my current combo of 8000s and ls 5/9. pls/appreciate your help! pls dont say, since your ears are so bad dont waste my time. pls help me to improve my 'ears' to enjoy the music.

[quote="kychoo99"]

VS126 wrote:Required amplifier power for this speaker is only 15 to 100 watts.

You can drive them with Quad...no problem.

No need pure Class A for this speaker, waste of electricity and bad for the earth. Only 15% efficiency and 85% electricity waste as heat.

Try BBC based 606 for more headroom coz this speaker got limited bass.

Price around RM2000 plus and is a workhorse.

hmmm, wonder how much watt is that FM pumping out and it was this setup with so much wastage of power that had so much rave & thumbs up during the last AV show, funny

The entry level FM Mono I think pumps out 100watts. There is misconception that more watts is more powerful. I can show you 100 watts from FM, Vitus or MBL than can outperform 500 watters from other amps.

So it is not a matter of how many watts but current delivery.

A more importatnt issue to look at is Size of Room, type of music normally played and the person. If you go to a hifi room setup and you want to experience the peaks, yeah OK, you need a stronger amps but do you listen to the hifi testing disc at home all the time?

If you have a fairly small room, you do not need to crank up so high to get the desired volume.

Normally, owners of this type of speaker do not blast their way to heaven. You wld want to get the PMC or ATC big tower.

So, ask yourself, what do you need? You buy to satisy yourself and not others.

Try out the offer from the quad owner b4 you decide on any. You might love the smooth and captivating mids.

ETM,

You should also know that as the price and implementation goes up, as you go towards the exotic, high end amplifiers, IMHO and experience, all types be they solid-state, valve, etc, will converge towards a single characteristic and that is the characteristic of an accurate live sound. None will reach it absolutely, but if you have the money to buy those mega-buck amplifiers, then you will find issues about 'valve sound' and 'solid state power', etc all moot, because a fantastic valve amp and a fantastic solid state amp will more or less sound similar, and that is to the live (real) sound. There will be another thing about them that will be similar.... their prices will have 5 or 6 figures (withOUT the decimal point).

For your case, it is very good that you have clarified your budget quite early. I recommend you continue to KIV the Audiolab 8000M (I think there is a pair for sale in the forum as well) because I suspect you might have gotten used to the sonic characteristic of the Audiolab 8000 series and likelihood, in terms of sound, the audiolab 8000Ms will be likely to appeal to you. But if you intend to 'diversify', then by all means consider other amps, just be ready to get really confused in the end. I am not sure whether it is wise for you to go the DIY route given that you yourself says you are a 'novice'. The DIY regulars might be the best people to give advice on that.

For your price point, I will be honest with you, you NEED to accept compromises. I.e. you need to have some 'soul searching', ask yourself and clarify with yourself your musical preferences (as in what aspect of the sound you prioritize, e.g. clarify of vocals, strong bass, clear highs, etc) and what type of music you listen to (which dictates to an extent which areas of the sound must be given priority) and then be prepared to compromise one area for those you prioritize. Not to say your budget is small, just that the prices of hifi has gotten to shit-ridiculous (best adjective I can think of) levels nowadays.

Enjoy the music wrote: i really want to know so that i go/choose the right path and hopefully minimize/save some cash or any least do not waste the cash into the wrong place. of course some may say go try it out and trust your ears, but my ears have very little experience and dont know what to listen for, proof is in my current combo of 8000s and ls 5/9. pls/appreciate your help! pls dont say, since your ears are so bad dont waste my time. pls help me to improve my 'ears' to enjoy the music.

in view that you wonder what to listen for, i sincerely and hardheadedly but humbly opine that you should consider deferment of decision to buy until and unless you are very sure of what you want, god knows if you may end up being happy with unexpected stuff i have said that you should consider deferment rather than you should defer... humble enough huh

please learn to identify what you want before you could recognise the desired attributes in your future gears!



undoubtably music has to play and blessed enough, you have got some setup to make your music readily available! baan baan laai... impulsiveness is as costly as ignorance eh!







have fun

HiFi is all about experience and personal taste, I suggest you audit the amps you intended to buy, if can take it back home and test it on your system.

Life is short, if you know what you are looking for, go for it, don't wait.

good morning to u 'enjoy the music' he there is a lot of sifu who have their own preference in music n sound weather is the right way or the wrong way it is still up to the person who is listening to his own setup. if u wish to learn more about the world of hifi there is another way of doing it without listening to anybody n spend unnecessary money on buying expensive equipment, try reading this book :http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/817793.The_Complete_Guide_to_High_End_Audio
i know is just a book but it will really explain everything about hifi n from there u can have a peace of mind of what u want best for your set.
after reading this book if u need any help please do pm me i will try to explain as much to u from what i have learn.

WongKN wrote:To me, the real issue is not outright power. If what we want is outright power, we just get a big minicompo. Some of them has listed power of 1000Watts PMPO !! .

Aiyoyo

PMPO lah not the same as RMS. I thought a GURU like you realised that!!!

Even not all RMS are equal.

I would think no-one here will profess himself to be a guru, what more myself. However, hopefully the OP knows what PMPO stands for and how it differs from RMS power. But even RMS power is not a very accurate indicator of the actual worth of an amp. In the end, I believe I have made my point quite clearly la, that one cannot just judge the true 'power' of an amp by its rated -power- (now, that's a nice twist of words if I ever seen one ! ). There are numerous ways to measure the capability of an amp and the main point is that just the sheer 'max power' number is not a very good indicator.

"A more importatnt issue to look at is Size of Room, type of music normally played and the person. If you go to a hifi room setup and you want to experience the peaks, yeah OK, you need a stronger amps but do you listen to the hifi testing disc at home all the time?

If you have a fairly small room, you do not need to crank up so high to get the desired volume.

Normally, owners of this type of speaker do not blast their way to heaven. You wld want to get the PMC or ATC big tower.

So, ask yourself, what do you need? You buy to satisy yourself and not others.

Try out the offer from the quad owner b4 you decide on any. You might love the smooth and captivating mids."

please have a look n see does it sound the same

if i have a room of 8feet by 8feet n i have a safe which weight more then 250lbs (power hungry speakers) n i need this to be place from one side to another side do i get some thin guy 100lbs (power amp) to move it or some big size man 180lbs (power amp) even two of them which they can still fit into the room. tell me who would move (sound coming out from the speaker) the safe more easily.

br />
Alfred wrote:

please have a look n see does it sound the same

if i have a room of 8feet by 8feet n i have a safe which weight more then 250lbs (power hungry speakers) n i need this to be place from one side to another side do i get some thin guy 100lbs (power amp) to move it or some big size man 180lbs (power amp) even two of them which they can still fit into the room. tell me who would move (sound coming out from the speaker) the safe more easily.

[/quote]

HaHa....you put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

If you tell me definately the 180 lb man can lift it better....then I can tell where you are coming from. (Pls read KN Wong's explanation).

The same thing as if you tell me yr 200 watter is definately better than any 100 watter in terms of power, (pls re read KN Wong's explanation again).

(I can tell you, A muscular 100 lb man like my friend ZeeBee is anytime stronger than any 180 lb fat burger eating man).

Cheers

jokiarch wrote:

kychoo99 wrote:
hmmm, wonder how much watt is that FM pumping out and it was this setup with so much wastage of power that had so much rave & thumbs up during the last AV show, funny

Hi Choo,

I am here and I am no Guru. Funny, I did not use FM power amp for the last hifi show. "Wastage of power" you said? Please check you facts first Even if I WAS using FM power amp, it has lesser power (wattage) than the Mc.

Jo Ki

Hi Jo,

Think my earlier statements might be slightly misleading & i apologized if it had been in a way sounds, offensive (It was never meant to be). Anyway, when i mentioned wastage of power, it was with the intention to drive the point that an amplifier with wattage exceeding a speaker listed requirement will not be a wastage after all as proven in your setup. Of course, not everyone can afford or willingly fork out that much of hard earned $$$ for that type of setup. If i got my facts right this time , your FM easily cost 10 times more than the mc which Alfred & myself have the privilege to audition the other day. On top of that, not everyone will agreed to spending that kind of fortune to setup & drive a speaker which used to cost around RM2k+. Having said that, i am actually looking forward to the coming AV show for your famed LS 3/5a with the FM setup .

Further, i wished to clarify that despite Alfred & my earlier comments on the mcintosh amp, the session we had the other day in Music By Design where we audition the mc + Stirling LS 3/5a, was nothing short of captivating & enjoyable. The tone, texture & smoothness of that setup still linger in my mind everytime i play back the same track in my budgeted low-fi . It was only the transient part that we felt could even be better with more quality power.

Best regards,

An ardent fan of 3/5a who couldn't afford one with an FM setup.

VS126 wrote:br />
Alfred wrote:

please have a look n see does it sound the same

if i have a room of 8feet by 8feet n i have a safe which weight more then 250lbs (power hungry speakers) n i need this to be place from one side to another side do i get some thin guy 100lbs (power amp) to move it or some big size man 180lbs (power amp) even two of them which they can still fit into the room. tell me who would move (sound coming out from the speaker) the safe more easily.

HaHa....you put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

If you tell me definately the 180 lb man can lift it better....then I can tell where you are coming from. (Pls read KN Wong's explanation).

The same thing as if you tell me yr 200 watter is definately better than any 100 watter in terms of power, (pls re read KN Wong's explanation again).

(I can tell you, A muscular 100 lb man like my friend ZeeBee is anytime stronger than any 180 lb fat burger eating man).

Yup, i think Alfred might not have use that example (which is quite difficult to measure) to clarify his point on the importance of quality power in driving a LS 5/9 (a speaker which he had audition before). Nevertheless, i am curious to find out which fares better - LS 5/9 with the quad or the 5/9 with the threshold. If ever there is a showdown, i wished i am there ...

Regards,

The curious novice.

fellow hifi lovers, it's weekend! means more time to listen/enjoy music. i just love the way all of you write, just like beautiful music/poetry. all points noted, thanks. put foot on the ground, x amount/$ is equals to x amount of choices or perhaps more rightly my limited choices, test test test, read more, know thy self/ears/taste, hold on to money, dont know/test dont buy, better test at home, room size is important, impulsiveness/ignorance can be costly, how much power/watts is still in debate(which i find very interesting). i love Nat King Cole, Jennifer Warnes, Tsai Chin, Tracy Chapman. there are many others but these are my favourites. the 2nd priority, is classical/orchestra music and also movie soundtracks. thanks to my friends i have come to appreciate movie soundtracks. sometimes i may even cry as the music is so moving. happy listening and enjoy the music.

It looks like you are in for a lot of trouble. Those singers you listed all have very good voices and unique singing styles. So you will demand good midrange with excellent vocal control. This is probably why you have the Rogers. However you also like classical, especially orchestra (which I take to mean symphonic orchestra, like Beethoven's Symphony No. 5). Of all types of regular music, that is the most demanding of all and you will require an all rounder. Then you say soundtracks, they are almost always symphonic orchestra in arrangements plus some will have sound effects embedded inside. You are wise in putting them as 2nd priority.

IMHO you will need a 'strong' powerful amplifier. At your price range, I have some doubts you can get a valve amp that can deliver what you want (doesn't mean you shouldn't look around though). I suspect you will end up with a solid-state. If you can find one which is heavily class-A biased, like a used unit of one of those classic high-end brands like Krell, Mark Levinson, Rowland, etc, would be best but I suspect not on your budget. Alternatives include Aragon, Parasound and the likes. Plus lots of modern alternatives. As you said, it's now weekend, so make a trip to places like Amcorp mall, JayaOne and so forth and get acquainted with some of the choices you have.

alfred wrote:i don't even dare to recommend my threshold 200wpc pure class A to drive do u think the Quad would be able to? hahahah

Hi alfred...
I was starting to listen a few years back & got hold of a pair of Rogers LS3/5a.. similar experience I think, i.e. I found big Watts ss amp does not sound satisfying with this small size monitor.. & a well meaning friend who's first question about an amp is "how many watts?" suggested looking for amps higher up the scale (in watts, & of course higher in scale in RM too). We played the ls3/5a with Krell 200Wpc Stereo block then, & the suggestion is to go for 300W up...... well ... cut story short my chase for the watts ended when I listened to Jo. Ki set in one KLIAV show... if not mistaken it was KEF Piano Black LS3/5a ... amp was Leak monoblock TL12.1 ... how many watts ? well 12 Watts per channel. That has changed my view completely.
Don't know if you have the chance to listen such low watts set up ? I was glad I did. Well for my friend he is still going after big watts amp.. l still have problem to dragged him to listen to TL12.1.... he still feel waste of time as .." too small watt ... what can it do ....." .... anyway... everyone entitle to his own choice... and I given up asking my friend to audition the TL12.1....
Kind regards
Cham TS

chamts1 wrote:

alfred wrote:i don't even dare to recommend my threshold 200wpc pure class A to drive do u think the Quad would be able to? hahahah

l still have problem to dragged him to listen to TL12.1.... he still feel waste of time as .." too small watt ... what can it do ....." .... anyway... everyone entitle to his own choice... and I given up asking my friend to audition the TL12.1....
Kind regards
Cham TS

Why low power?

The GURU has gone from low power tubes to mid power solid state (as mentioned by someone). That means for the same speaker, the higher power is better. Why follow yesterday's news??? Be a step ahead..this way yr system can be on par or better than the GURU's.

Hi VS126,
I did revisit playing my Rogers LS3/5a again with the Krell 200WPC..& revisit playing it in friend home with TL12.1 (not at show this time).... I did not like the sound with the Krell ... it sounded "rough" to me .. some tracks .. the singer is like "screaming" instead of singing... I still don't own TL12.1 (cost factor)....so for now,... just happy with pairing the Rogers with Quad 33-303 (recaps & new transistor of course)...
Kind regards.

Of course the Krell is rough sounding.

It is a brute amp. The refinement isn't there like the FM or others.

Even Dan himself attest to it.

The ealier Krells may be rough and bright (apparently to cater for the speakers of their era), but the later ones much much more refined.

chamts1 - what model of Krell did you use ?

My Apologies to Krell Diehards...

The CX range is better but still unemotional.

Lots of dynamics, sometimes over the hill.

chamts1 wrote:
Well for my friend he is still going after big watts amp.. l still have problem to dragged him to listen to TL12.1.... he still feel waste of time as .." too small watt ... what can it do ....." .... anyway... everyone entitle to his own choice... and I given up asking my friend to audition the TL12.1....
Kind regards
Cham TS

What amp your friend uses to drive his LS3/5A?

Krell poweramp with 200W per channel could not do a justice to LS3/5A. This has been practically tried. Perhaps SS amp with > 300W is essential for LS3/5A. On the contrary, A PP tube amp with 16ohm output tap at 12-50W should be well matching with LS3/5A.

rsbn589 wrote:Krell poweramp with 200W per channel could not do a justice to LS3/5A. This has been practically tried. Perhaps SS amp with > 300W is essential for LS3/5A. On the contrary, A PP tube amp with 16ohm output tap at 12-50W should be well matching with LS3/5A.

C'mon, it is a matter of matching.

You guys got it so wrong.

carz wrote:The ealier Krells may be rough and bright (apparently to cater for the speakers of their era), but the later ones much much more refined.

chamts1 - what model of Krell did you use ?

Oh oh.. I hope my fact is correct.. The Krell I think it was KSA200S .. preamp was Aleph .. don't know the model .. it has turning knobs for "gain" as well as the usual volume ... friend told me then ..."wow .. this small little baby is a big eater (hard to drive) " ..... last I know.. this Krell taken over by Multiaudio ...

rsbn589 wrote:

chamts1 wrote:
Well for my friend he is still going after big watts amp.. l still have problem to dragged him to listen to TL12.1.... he still feel waste of time as .." too small watt ... what can it do ....." .... anyway... everyone entitle to his own choice... and I given up asking my friend to audition the TL12.1....
Kind regards
Cham TS

What amp your friend uses to drive his LS3/5A?

Hi..I think he hardly play his LS3/5a.. when he does.. I think he uses his Quad 34+306. His latest speaker addition to his collection is ATC-SCM100SL AT (the active speaker cw amps in each speaker) ... so I am quite sure his LS3/5a has been & still is in deep hibernation. Last weekend I saw a pair of the latest Quad ESL-2905 demo set going for SGD8k in Aldephi level 1... did not get to listen & this friend came to mind.. I had called him to inform him of it.. if he gets it.. I am sure I will take the long drive to see him to listen....