Glass, Acrylic & MDF turntable platter differences

Hi .....

What would be the difference between a Glass / Acrylic and MDF platter ?

I think there's elaborate dicussion at S'pore echoloft forum. Read there for further info, but I think MDF platter is not discussed.

wingman wrote:Hi .....

What would be the difference between a Glass / Acrylic and MDF platter ?

If got chance, hear for yourself and find out.

Easiest would be to go to a shop thats got lots of Rega TTs. the cheaperestest Rega P1 is a wood MDF platter. Then a P3 is glass, then going up the scale, ceramic.


Once you're done with platters, try changing different mats also. Rubber, cork, felt cloth, or even directly on the hard platter and see what does it do to the sound. But all these will change the VTA also.

Have fun.

Hi Mugen..

Thanks, for sharing the loads of options. Phew , it's going to be a long journey.

Upgraded from an Akai TT to a Rega P2 recently, which comes with a MDF platter. Looking at upgrading the platter in the near future.

MDF, acrylic or glass and each have their individual charateristics. In terms of weight not sure if the current " motor " would be able to take the weight difference.

I was made to understand that acrylic would sound better then the other two.

Looks like "Asia Sound" would be the place I would need to audition the platters. ( glass and MDF )

Do you happen to know any place / shop that sells all the stuff other than the internet. ( as what you have indicated )

Cheers.

Must prepare those tools for the adjustments and alignments.
Not exactly confident with the piece of paper that Rega provided.

Hi Scope....

Yes, that piece of paper does not say much.

As i myself is a "greenhorn" in the TT arena would not be tuning until I get myself familiar. Especially on my new Rega P2.

Will leave it to experienced hands.

What TT do you have ?

I have an old skool CEC TT only.
Many here trying to poison me to buy new TT and I am sure they will read this line.

Yep, I could dare to say anything cos I have one on my good ole Rega. No more Rega sound.

No more Rega sound?

car o scope wrote:No more Rega sound?

Its very different now lah.. didn't want to explain in so many word and paragraphs. If I do that, perhaps some will pick out one or 2 lines from my reply and "cha" me for nothing.

wingman wrote:Hi Mugen..

Thanks, for sharing the loads of options. Phew , it's going to be a long journey.

Upgraded from an Akai TT to a Rega P2 recently, which comes with a MDF platter. Looking at upgrading the platter in the near future.

MDF, acrylic or glass and each have their individual charateristics. In terms of weight not sure if the current " motor " would be able to take the weight difference.

I was made to understand that acrylic would sound better then the other two.

Looks like "Asia Sound" would be the place I would need to audition the platters. ( glass and MDF )

Do you happen to know any place / shop that sells all the stuff other than the internet. ( as what you have indicated )

Cheers.

yup, Asia sound seems to be the place.

I dunno if the P2 motor and/or bearings can take it (due to much heavier mass) or if the platters between P2 & P3 are interchangeable or not... but worth a try lah, if you are curious to see. But otherwise, better to just evaluate the TT as a complete system being the way a manufacturer designed it. If clearaudio made a TT entirely of acrylic, then go with it then.
If u like metal stuff, that VYGER may be your cup of tea. If you like woody stuff but with springly rubber o-ring suspensions, the Spacedecks could be it ! Of if u like old-school spring suspensions, the all-time favourite Linn comes to mind!

cmboy wrote:

car o scope wrote:No more Rega sound?

Its very different now lah.. didn't want to explain in so many word and paragraphs. If I do that, perhaps some will pick out one or 2 lines from my reply and "cha" me for nothing.

C'mon. Please share them with us. Any useful tips would sure benefit us all. Please

mugenfoo wrote:
yup, Asia sound seems to be the place.

I dunno if the P2 motor and/or bearings can take it (due to much heavier mass) or if the platters between P2 & P3 are interchangeable or not... but worth a try lah, if you are curious to see. But otherwise, better to just evaluate the TT as a complete system being the way a manufacturer designed it. If clearaudio made a TT entirely of acrylic, then go with it then.
If u like metal stuff, that VYGER may be your cup of tea. If you like woody stuff but with springly rubber o-ring suspensions, the Spacedecks could be it ! Of if u like old-school spring suspensions, the all-time favourite Linn comes to mind!

Most the models that you mentioned have the "Mercedes S-Class suspension" for the platter?

Mercs got that "Airmatic" suspension system.

Mebbe for TT equivalent, would be those with air-bearings on those super expensive tonearm setups. And those magnetic levitated spindle bearings. Makes it all seem like floating on air.

That would be "the S Class" of tonearms.
Like a magic carpet ride.

Eh, thickness of platter will bring effect to the performance ah?

Mugen and cmboy both using Regas I gather by now. So do I. So that makes us buddies to share tips and newfound secrets of getting the best of of them. I place my Rega and Linn on a specially cut and polished dense granite slabs each supported and levelled underneath using tap washers. Makes a difference to my ears.

By the way this platter issue: only a few makes allow platter change/upgrade I think. Origin live use to sell acrylic platters for mounting on a few decks. Otherwise most TTs have their platter done right in the first place and can't be changed right? So so if a certain platter appeals to you go buy a certain deck.

I use a Sound Organization stand (with some tweakery) for the LP12 at the moment. I thought that was most suitable in my case. I think Rega benefits from more solid foundation. I just loath shifting the rigs just to compare which is better. There's only so much I'd explore, but only if there's neccesity.
I think Rega glass platter works fine for most intent and purpose but highly suggested to mate with the Rega felt mat for many reasons. Those colored mats are cotton and better than the stock mat, comes with a price of course.

If not mistaken, Rega's coloured P3 TTs are not selling at the same price as Black ones as they require a separate purchase of power supply.

Hi Wan / Mugen

The previous Rega 2's come with glass platter, my guess is the reduce price comes with a bit of compromise that being the MDF platter.

understand they do sell the Glass platter for P2 and seen some acrylic platters in the WEB for Rega TT's.

Selected the Rega base on the pricing , the positve reviews , branded and a very simple set .

And your RP1's are using the MDF platter ?

CMBoy - why no more "REGA" sound ??? Care to share.

Cheers

Wan Azami Hamzah wrote:Mugen and cmboy both using Regas I gather by now. So do I. So that makes us buddies to share tips and newfound secrets of getting the best of of them. I place my Rega and Linn on a specially cut and polished dense granite slabs each supported and levelled underneath using tap washers. Makes a difference to my ears.

By the way this platter issue: only a few makes allow platter change/upgrade I think. Origin live use to sell acrylic platters for mounting on a few decks. Otherwise most TTs have their platter done right in the first place and can't be changed right? So so if a certain platter appeals to you go buy a certain deck.

no way ... if anything, i am leaning towards being anti-rega becoz of all the hype and reviews and whatnots i've read about the P3-24 especially, it was a big letdown after setting and aligning one right up to the letter, and benchmarking it heads on against a CD player and an extremely vintage TT . Thankfully, it was not my set to begin with.

Repeating this said somewhere else on this forum.
Colored ones are higher price at over RM2k.(you go call for exact quote, not good for me to state price here). Black ones are cheaper and offered at trade-in price. The PSU only match current P3-24 model, not any other previous Planar 3 or P3. While stocks last I assume. Previous models use 110VAC motor and its very expensive to implement a stable PSU for it. Linn Hercules PSU can be used but must alter the wiring to suit the circuitry.

Gee Mugen,
That's why I stay with whatever old gear I have and avoid any outright major purchase, resorting to only small component upgrades and the odd tweaks here and there. Hi Fi as a hobby can be frustrating at times. Cheer up

BTW, that Asia sound trade-in program has been exposed as nothing but a farce.

Asia Sound is practising double standards here.
Local buyers (KL/PJ) would need to lug an old TT to qualify for the trade-in price.

But if you happen to call them up and just cook up a story and say you're coming from out-station (just say Melaka or Perak or wherever), then the Asia Sound guy will tell you this ... "ok, since u are from outstation, just come lah! can give you same price and no need to bring an old TT for trade in! " .

So for all you Rega P3 owners out there, so sorry to say it but the s/hand value of a P3 has just taken a steep nosedive into the gutters. Got a problem with this? Don't flame me, but go take it up with Asia Sound and/or the local agent (Mr. Kim / ex-Trikay guy) and give them some heat!

I just tell it as I see it.

>

Wow... Like that ah?
Then, I shall say I come all the way from Malacca or Johor.

Can we say that Rega is dumping excessive stocks at a lower price?
The trade-in thing might just be a cover-up exercise??

maybe !

Farce or not, if I had the money, if no TT yet, I'd plonk on this chance to own a spanking new P7 or P9 at a price I'd not probably find elsewhere. Surely many may also know there's also a local loudspeaker dealer purposely selling some models even cheaper than S'pore, that also so tempting to them, just the reason of distance and time.

Wingman:
About that Rega sound or not, read this gentleman's blog on his souped up Rega P5.
http://finetone.blogspot.com/2009/05/analogue-source-rega-p5-turntable-part.html

Conclusion is entirely yours.

good for those who are thinking of buying or about to buy.

Too bad for those who "bought at the higher old price".

CM - Thanks for the WEB Link.

My views;

They may have a business reason to just do that but as long as the consumers benefits, it's a plus.

In situations like these there are bound to be winners and losers.

Let's look at the positive view point.

cheers.

True also...
The price is really a lot lower than last time.
Benefiting would-be buyers.

Talk about platter.. acrylic materials dont come cheap right?
Coz the price of acrylic has increased quite a lot.

Scope...

Yes, absurd pricing.

Why, there are demand for the items. ( MDF platter upgrade )

To fork out that sort of pricing does not make sense. I would use the item with its original specification.

cheers

even buying uncut acrylic sheets is expensive. And there are not many places that supply them. Singage shops only sell the thin ones for making display cases.

For the really thick ones, I haven't found a source yet around Klang Valley.

Looking at my own platter, I gather its a superbly and precision engineered product, worth the money, worth the trouble importing it. For me, I didn't turn back and probably never will. I plonked that money, so I heard there's others who bought the same thing, prepared to pay and risk it all. Meanwhile I don't hear anyone selling it off either because it wasn't to expectation. I believe the original glass platter is of some precision and not entirely possible to duplicate the same thing at your convenient glass shop. I could say its likely a futile effort to clone the same acrylic platter as those offered on the internet. I know some of you may be pissed because of the price, but thats how things are, nice things are not always on the cheap.
I think I read somewhere mine is made by the same OEM manufacturer who supplies them to Pro-Ject, Scheu Analog and even Clearaudio. That's enough to convince me they don't make crap.

mugenfoo wrote:even buying uncut acrylic sheets is expensive. And there are not many places that supply them. Singage shops only sell the thin ones for making display cases.

For the really thick ones, I haven't found a source yet around Klang Valley.

How thick do you need them? ATS in Amcorp did me some acrylic wall platforms with one-inch think platforms.

hi...

CM...yes, good stuff don't come cheap. For a person like me forking out the dought at that price would need to be justified. ( personal satisfication )

As for me, I have a very modus setup, nothing fancy but output from these equipments are music to my ears.

Now it's a matter of upgrades and tweaks.


Don't mind sharing where you got your Acrylic platter. ( WEB ) What TT model do you own.

Was advised not to upgrade mine to a glass platter during the purchase and a techie friend of mine. So that amounts to a "STOP" .

cheers

Sorry, but not keen to tell the whole world here about my rig.
All I'll tell you is be prepared to pay some RM600-700 (depending on shipping and current exchange rate) for the same product and you could find it on Ebay. If price of these things is your primary concern, there's nothing much to say. Good MM or MC cartridges can cost somewhat the same and much more for great performance.
As with hifi systems, these things have diminishing returns and risky no doubt. Every tweak or upgrade item to the TT rig can vary from very little to great benefit and may not even perform to money's worth for other external factors and reasons that may overwhelm or severly limit that upgrade item performance. Every part of the TT are somewhat interdependent on each other. Be it known that I think Rega's marketing strategy is as straightforward and blunt as it can be. You buy P1 or P2 performance, the performance however you tweak it is limited at that price point. Upgrading with ALL known upgrades to the P3-24 may end up costing more than the P5 or even P7, when for that same money (maybe topup a bit more) might as well go for those higher end models in the first place. Of course its not my place to annoy anyone or discourage anyone wanting to upgrade part by part, but then again when going on this route, one must be well read and aware of the highest possible limitation of the TT model in question. Its not just the money issue you know.

CM...

No worries.

cheers

I couldn't agree more cmboy!
There's a threshold to tweaking and upgrading. I've smoked many a 'Evoed' Protons with my then stock standard original Evo 7, especially in the twists and turns. Then after souping it up to a point I stopped and started saving up for something even better to replace the whole car.

Yes, there's only so much to soup up a TT to my personal experience. Some things you do, some things don't and never overdo it. Just recently, I tried a few support stands and isolation table exercises (not merely tweaks or mods). A dated plain ole pinewood cheapo table simply synergized better ones I thought would do better justice over a wide range of music I play often. Ok..lets not go on isolation tables and those sorts...tantamout to derailing the topic.

Hi CM...

What is the height of the Acrylic platter ? 12MM or 25MM ?

One of these would not need a VTA adjustment or both needs a VTA adjustment.

cheers.

does your tonearm have VTA adjustment facility ?

VTA is a very sensitive topic.
Some people incl. Rega founder Roy Gandy says that VTA adjustment is a neurosis and goes to great lengths to explain & show why VTA "in the ballpark" is sufficient and getting that last 0.01 degree accuracy is bullsh!t coz records are already cut with a massive variance and blah blah blah so on and so forth.

But funny thing, I have just also tried out VTA adjustments by means of using shims/washers on an otherwise non-VTA adjustable arm and the most obvious change in sound is in the treble region. But cannot say for sure that the sound-change is purely due to VTA coz all the counterweights and anti-skid got to be re-adjusted to compensate for the change in total weight.


And really, who's to say whats truly the right kind of sound that a LP should give ? So in the absence of any reference absolutes, just gun for the tone-arm/cartridge to be as horizontal as possible and call it a day. Enjoy the music more instead.

hi Mugen...

Your views are forthright and the ather forummers as well, appreciated.

Makes a green horn like me to understand and put things in clear perspective in terms of TT upgradres.

happy holidays to all.

drive safe be safe.

cheers

Adjust the vta for 180gm records and I will find others not sounding so good. So one solution is to have an assortments of mats of different thickness to suit whatever records i fancy. My tt not that difficult to readjust vta, just a pivoting lever lock. Not forgetting the record clamp. And the question of keeping the tonearm horizontal for all types of records played sure make for a difference.


I'm using SME IIIs set into a corian(artificial marble bny Du Pont) plinth, so the issue of resonance is low on my list of problems.

(assuming you play more regular LPs than 180gm "audiophile reissues").
quick tip would be to adjust VTA to be just about very slightly "tail low" for 180gm LPs, so it would be just about horizontal for regular LPs.

but i do "conditionally agree" with the Rega man Roy Gandy that VTA adjustment is more a neurosis than exact science.
Vinyl warpage by itself already causes more VTA variation than the difference between true horizontal for 180gm LPs vs. true horizontal for normal LPs.

I've only recently come to realise that the electronics (more specifically the phono stage) would have an even bigger impact on the vinyl sound than anything else.

If u happen to use a good outboard phono stage with adjustable Ohm loading and Capacitance loading ... the sonic changes is nothing short of being mind-blowing (or in other words, with the mis-matched settings .. your LP setup on the whole will just sound downright terrible coz it can make the sound ring with the sibilance of a dentist's drill, or just downright muddy like a quagmirish accoustic swamp of dull goo and silly putty) .


Of course, couple it with proper cartridge alignment, trackforce, anti-skid, azimuth "AND" last but not least ... VTA.

And if u happen to have one of those springy TTs (like Linns, Thorens, and Oracles etc etc)... make sure they all "bounce" the right way.


One more thing... difference in platter mat material will also change the sound. Rubber, cork, felt, hard acrylic, etc etc .. all got their own sonic "signatures".

mugenfoo wrote:I've only recently come to realise that the electronics (more specifically the phono stage) would have an even bigger impact on the vinyl sound than anything else.

If u happen to use a good outboard phono stage with adjustable Ohm loading and Capacitance loading ... the sonic changes is nothing short of being mind-blowing (or in other words, with the mis-matched settings .. your LP setup on the whole will just sound downright terrible coz it can make the sound ring with the sibilance of a dentist's drill, or just downright muddy like a quagmirish accoustic swamp of dull goo and silly putty)

You bet anyone's dollar it does make huge impact on the sonics. Its all in the design and how much of resolve it'll deliver ultimately. Backtracking that cheap, not so cheapo here ASL phono I have was typically the simplest book example tube phono implementation. Yes it works fine but it will not deliver finest quality sonics however I mod it using the same PSU and circuitry with better audiophile caps, resistors, tubes, whatever. It was implemented purely at its price point, purpose and modding it more is like flogging a dead horse. Time to move on to finding a better one later on. Perhaps I could mod it into a tube buffer instead. See how loh...if got time and the mood.

Yes, u guys are right........so many variables and so many choices to make to come up with the best compromise. The phonostage being the next hurdle to clear......and we haven't even got to the issue of speaker system best set up for this particular TT in used!!!

uncle_vic wrote:and we haven't even got to the issue of speaker system best set up for this particular TT in used!!!

Don't!

uncle_vic wrote:Yes, u guys are right........so many variables and so many choices to make to come up with the best compromise. The phonostage being the next hurdle to clear......and we haven't even got to the issue of speaker system best set up for this particular TT in used!!!

Well, decide in a strategy then stick to it lah ...

2 main strategies:
Top down approach, or bottom-up approach.

Top-down:
U start from scratch, get bang 4 buck front-end (ie CD player [+ DAC], Turntable [+ phono stage], or a Day-Sequerra tuner if you're into FM). Then Get good amps + speakers . Amps + speakers would need more careful synergy partnering.... then finetune the sound u want with cables , rubber feet, etc etc.

Bottom-up:
U basically inherited some stuff from somewhere/someone .. and want to enhance it .... so you'd go looking for stuff that would partner well with the existing gear u already have ...


Third approach: a hybrid of the above .... anything goes !
Swap some stuff, keep some stuff ... whatever tickles your fancy.

cmboy wrote : "Don't"...........


U like to share your thought as to why we shouldn't? No need to derail this thread........just a short one of your perceptions or views. And we can get back to tt again!

Hi mugen foo, I don't have any of those problems u mentioned. Phew!
thank god no!!! I'm happily enjoying the music!!!

asia sound is now selling their own acrylic rega platter which can be used with the p1 up to the p5. costs a few hundred bucks but is cheaper than the groovetracer and iron audio platters.

u can hear the difference by simply removing the mdf platter and replacing it with the acrylic platter and you don't have to adjust vta.

btw rega used mdf to make platters for its cheaper models simply because of its low cost and not because it offers any sonic benefit.

for the benefit of diyers and those who worry about extra mass wearing out the bearing, the rega glass platter weighs 2kg. so there shld be no problem with mass if the replacement platter weighs 2kg or less.