Glass, Acrylic & MDF turntable platter differences

Hi Sf...

Thanks.

Correct me if i am wrong, heard there are two variants in thickness ?

cheers

eddie tan of asia sound showed me only one acrylic platter.

the platters of different thickness could be from groovetracer and iron audio.

The platter sold by Asia Sound is called the Fatty Hi-Fi Roundabout!

There's only one size, and the standard one goes on the P3 and P2, I think.

Using the platter on the P5 requires placing three thin slices of cork underneath where it rests on the sub-platter, to get the right height. I don't know how it effects the sound, though ...

bassraptor wrote:
Using the platter on the P5 requires placing three thin slices of cork underneath where it rests on the sub-platter, to get the right height. I don't know how it effects the sound, though ...

You know why? because the side skirting moulding is some distance higher than the main plinth and doesn't provide sufficient clearance to the thicker acrylic platter which will contact the moulding. Having the cork raises the height of the sub platter to provide the neccessary clearance. Arm VTA have to be adjusted too. IMHO, the cork trick isn't the right method and a poor fix. However, there is a permanent workaround.

yeah, i know and i thought it was kind of a tacky fix too. however, since i don't have a p5, i won't worry ....

Great to see so many Rega owners here. Btw how do you guys survive without VTA adjustments if you do. Roy Gandy says he's optimized VTA setting to suit most carts in production other than their own. Acknowledging his talent and in giving us value for money designs, this one I cannot agree with him. Just look at different cart bodies, the dimensions between stylus tip at tracking setting to mounting surface vary greatly. Morever vta is actual angle the slylus make with the absolute horizontal at correct tracking weight and not dependent on whether the arm is near horizontal. My experience with vinyl for over 30 years tells me even with the same 2 carts, production tolerance affects vta due to small but important vertical compliance. Even the minutest adjustment will affect the sound. There is no strict rule to this though there are specialized protractors to do this I believe, but all you do is you judiciously adjust vta until you hear the most balanced sound, with the two opposite extremes giving you either a muddy bass heavy sound or brightish top heavy sound. A bit like \'playtrim\' on Nakamichi decks.

Some of you may have bad experience with a certain highly rated cart then looking to change it with something else when it's just a case of not getting the vta right.

There are Rega arm vta adjusters sold by other companies though so I assume most of you are using these to get the best from your deck and installed carts. Cheers and enjoy.

Come to think of it, the acrylic platter on a P5 with that cork sandwich fix further decrease the contact area of the conical center spindle profile, resulting in somewhat unsecure and may even wobble if it happens the cork sheet should exceed the thickness.
AFAIK, this alternative platter is a straight forward swap for any model below P5. P5 is a little problematic in this case.

Wan Azmi: Personally I wouldn't care what Roy Gandy may have said about VTA. I believe in optimum VTA adjustment and moreover its to be adjusted and optimized to the cartridge in place. Recently Rega produced their own VTA accessory for their range of new RB arms with 3 point mounting. Previously they had on offer 2mm metal shims for their older range of arms but not widely available unless ordered through their dealers. Michell have their VTA and bottom ring nut all the while as 3rd party accessories. Michell VTA adjuster was specifically designed for their own turntables and one had to enlarge the arm hole on a Rega if its to be installed there, naturally a Rega owner is to address that issue. Me have installed a 4mm metal ring shim at the arm for VTA compensation and it been there eversince.

There's a test record called "The Ultimate Analogue Test LP" made by Analogue Productions. Go Google.

There's even a specific track to test for optimum VTA height. But one will need an InterModulation Distortion meter to also measure the IM distortion due to VTA adjustments.

Anyone got this LP? Otherwise was thinking of ordering it from the Internet, anyone interested in a bulk order ?

Spoiler:

I've got some test record somewhere in my stash, was given to my by a very kind TT guru some years back. I think its a late 70's edition. Its really a severe disc that'll push your TT to the limits. I think I'm comfortable with a little compromise here n there and rely on my ears or whatever experience I have.

Asia Sound brings in those spacers for the arms, not too expensive, i think. However, if VTA is a crucial element in your vinyl playback, suggest avoiding Regas altogther, unless all your LPs are exactly of the same thickness. Go for Pro-Ject where VTA can be set easily. In fact, other companie are now offering on-the-fly VTA add-ons underneath the tonearm. Was considering getting the Clearaudio one for my Performance tt, but it seems they need to drill a bigger hole in the plinth ...

Have a question.
Does it mean that heavier the platter the better?
Or need to find one 'ngam ngam' the appropriate weight?

That would be the conventional thinking, but you need to consider the motor's capabilities as well. i would think a lack of resonance would help too.

I'm curious about the optimum VTA thing - do you guys who hold it as a stringent rule have all your LPS of the same thickness, so that when you set VTA with a certain cartridge, no need to reset again. Or do you keep changing VTA depending on the record?

I set once (with my favourite vinyl) and forget about it...

Set once for the average thickness of your vinyl collection. Recheck once in 6 months, a year max.

Me same same like jazzy...

car o scope,

when you replace the stock platter, you will have to find one that weighs the same or less.

otherwise you will stress the motor and the bearing may fail.

the rega glass platter weighs 2kg. if you replace it with one that weighs, say, 10kg, i'm not sure if the motor can make it spin.

also, on a spring-suspension turntable, the heavier weight will make the platter sink lower.

turntable manufacturers design their motors and bearings for the weight of their platters.

blessed new year to all...

Again, let me ask - if VTA is so crucial, won't averaging it out for the various thickness of LPs also be a compromise?

sflam wrote:car o scope,

when you replace the stock platter, you will have to find one that weighs the same or less.

otherwise you will stress the motor and the bearing may fail.

the rega glass platter weighs 2kg. if you replace it with one that weighs, say, 10kg, i'm not sure if the motor can make it spin.

also, on a spring-suspension turntable, the heavier weight will make the platter sink lower.

turntable manufacturers design their motors and bearings for the weight of their platters.

blessed new year to all...

OK. Got it.
Thanks for the info.

Happy New Year to you all!!

The Rega P5 and lesser models have one belt with cost effective parts, and that was the design at its price point. P7 and P9 have a superior quality bearing and subplatter along with 2 belts. P7 & P9 are expected to far outperform any of its lower brethren. Of course it comes at the price.

Well averaging out better than completely out. Fact is unless you're using 180 grams most lps are around the same thickness. Worked for me.

I'm not very particular, as long as its "almost there" and certainly can't expect perfection everytime, I'd live with some degree of compromise.

So can we sum up that VTA isn't quite the exact science it's been made out to be?

For one, we have to trust our eyes to make sure the tonearm is parallel to the LP surface - but what about tapered tonearm tubes, then? Like the Pro-ject.

Then, because of the different thicknesses of LPs - no matter if it is just two, it still is different - we're still averaging it and getting almost there for a compromised setting that we feel should work well generally?

Of course, tonearms mounted on "on-the-fly" adjustable VTA setters are the answer for the most finnicky set-ups, right? But we still have to trust our eyes? It's not as if there's a laser checker for this - or is there? Enlighten me ...

bassraptor wrote:So can we sum up that VTA isn't quite the exact science it's been made out to be?
For one, we have to trust our eyes to make sure the tonearm is parallel to the LP surface - but what about tapered tonearm tubes, then? Like the Pro-ject.

If not mistaken one or more of current or recent SME arms have a silkscreen pattern and middle line on the tapered arm tube which is useful for determining the VTA.
I reckon for radio broadcasters and DJ's who use turntable, the VTA issue is hardly anything to be concerned or least of their worries. Science?...what science?

I just use my eyes.. making sure the cartridge is parallel to the vinyl surface..more or less..

cmboy wrote: Science?...what science?

Ha ha ... so perhaps Roy Gandy had a point then? Given that his company has sold thousands of turntables and tonearms without onboard VTA provisions over the past couple of decades?

Looks slightly "tail low" to me !

But damn good photo though. What camera did u use ? Was the pict taken without the help of a Macro lens ?

jazzy939 wrote:I just use my eyes.. making sure the cartridge is parallel to the vinyl surface..more or less..

Nothing about the Transcription turntable playback system is even near an "exact science".

1. The 33.3333.... rpm is never truly 33.333.... , both in terms of short term stability and long term drift. A simple visual check on a stroboscope would reveal the spinning flaws already.

2. The Tracking force set statically will NEVER be truly the same in a dynamic situation due to LP warpage and cosine deviations about the pivoting angle as the tonearm bobs up and down during typical playback scenarios.

3. The VTA, too many random variables:
a) What was the LP master's original cutting lathe's angle?
b) What was the rake angle designed into the playback cartridge?
c) LP thickness are never truly identical, even among records of the same batch mold/press.

4. Anti-skate compensation.
a) Its not a linear force. With more centripetal forces on the tonearm as is reads closer to the inner circles.
b) Those counter weight forces also change geometry and the arm pivots towards the centre.
c) Records are also never truly centre spindled and hence the inward spirals will never spiral towards the centre at the same angular rate. Extreme cases would be easily visible as the tonearm tracks the spiral with lots of lateral (horizontal) movements inwards and outwards. Sometimes this could induce oscillations severe enough in-sympathy with the anti skate mechanisms to eventually cause a mis-track but this is super rare (but not impossible).

5. My favourite and this applies to all pivoting tonearms: The cartridge zenith (overhang & mounting angle) alignment is NEVER going to be spot-on to the record grooves. Even at the two supposedly null-points, due to the LP's imperfections as stated in no.4(c), the stylus will NEVER be totally tangential to the recorded grooves, or even if it was, it will only be for a brief momentary frame in time before it tracks over to the higher tracking error zones.

6. Azimuth aligment. Again, LP surface warpage means that although the stylus may be aligned as close to vertical in a static scenario, dynamically it will never be truly vertically-tracing the record grooves unless the record is PERFECTLY flat. Of all the records i have new and old, i have yet to come across one that is perfectly flat with absolutely no flex or wobble.

===============

EVERYTHING about the LP is about Compromise. And this purely on the playback Geometry & media format alone.

its not even getting into the various design and material choices of TT manufacturers yet.

But in-spite of all the imperfections above, the LP format is really time enduring and its overall analogue medium still holds much superiority over the RedBook format.


As for the project's conical tube tonearm, yes, its totally pointless to eye-ball it. Better to just use the cartridge body's reference instead.

bassraptor wrote:So can we sum up that VTA isn't quite the exact science it's been made out to be?

For one, we have to trust our eyes to make sure the tonearm is parallel to the LP surface - but what about tapered tonearm tubes, then? Like the Pro-ject.

Then, because of the different thicknesses of LPs - no matter if it is just two, it still is different - we're still averaging it and getting almost there for a compromised setting that we feel should work well generally?

Of course, tonearms mounted on "on-the-fly" adjustable VTA setters are the answer for the most finnicky set-ups, right? But we still have to trust our eyes? It's not as if there's a laser checker for this - or is there? Enlighten me ...

Thank you, Mugen, I was waiting for this ...

My point being the arguments that go on and on over VTA and anti-skating, and the dogmatic insistence that if you don't and can't get these exactly right, then you might as well throw the tt out of the window! All quite pointless.

When was analogue ever exact, eh? You follow some guidelines, and let your ears tell you something, for most of us with the basic tools.

I watched Michael Fremer's turntable set up guide - great for the dedicated player, but a sure-fire way to turn off the newbie.

Rega condensed many compromises into its turntables, didn't it, and has done remarkably well despite? You can play a P1 right out of the box - and that's the right approach for attracting newbies.

The more people that get into vinyl, the better for us vinyl-heads, because it means more products and music. Right?

I've encouraged a few friends getting into vinyl on a budget to just buy a P1 or Debut and have fun - and they have. If I had filled them with talk of VTA and VTF and anti-skating, they would have stayed with CD!

Meanwhile, I just set up a Benz Micro Ace H cartridge on a Nottingham Analogue Interspace tonearm ... all done visually, with only VTF being done with a digital metre. Never had so much fun for a while, and worth it when I heard the result!

hi , im just c three people maby twin , skill on analoge forum then tell us about turntable and analog lover just following surfing .
honestly please guide urs expereince.

i cant sharing bec the twin brother hood more expert then micheal fremmer .
im attend forumer at vinly engine more 10 year.

please

cmboy

fyi, radio broadcasters don't use LPs and turntables anymore. they don't even use CDs. all songs are digitally stored in hard disks.
to compile songs for their programmes, they just create a playlist on their computers and set the time and date of their programmes and click "send".

things have changed...

sflam,
yep. they have been doing that for quite awhile.. guess the term 'DJ' is no longer valid.
Wonder what they did with the TTs and vinyls? Archived or in the bin?

AGREE with you here.

We just try our best to set a TT up to our own ability & satisfaction, and then sit back and enjoy the fruits of our labour. It is a labour of music & hifi love/passion.

No point trying to get it "perfect" because the whole turntable & LP ecosystem is NOT a perfect system to begin with. Or any other item for that matter.

But given the seemingly endless user adjustments available with a TT, it would be easy to lose one's-self in all this myriad of tweakings and lose sight of the end game in mind, which is just to play good music and play it well.

Thats why entry level TTs will always have their place, until the listener either has had enuff of vinyl and moves back to the convenience of CD, maintains its status quo, or yearns for better quality vinyl sound and moves up the ladder to better TT rigs (and with it the added complexities). Wallet permitting of course.

bassraptor wrote:Thank you, Mugen, I was waiting for this ...

My point being the arguments that go on and on over VTA and anti-skating, and the dogmatic insistence that if you don't and can't get these exactly right, then you might as well throw the tt out of the window! All quite pointless.

When was analogue ever exact, eh? You follow some guidelines, and let your ears tell you something, for most of us with the basic tools.

I think at the end of the day, it boils down to two things.
Are you listening to music or listening to details...?

jazzy939 wrote:I think at the end of the day, it boils down to two things.
Are you listening to music or listening to details...?

if listening to details leads to a better ENJOYMENT of the music, why not?

One can listen to the sonic clarity, good dynamics and etc etc of the hifi technicalities.
One then digests the overall presentation that leads to the enjoyment and appreciation of music.


If its just purely listening to music alone without regards for the technicalities or accuracy of reproduction, then no need for massive and complex hifi systems. This would be easily achieved with a simple iPod+earphones or mini compo already.

Spoiler:

jazzy939 wrote:I think at the end of the day, it boils down to two things.
Are you listening to music or listening to details...?

i think adjust sana adjust sini , tweak sana tweak sini , tolak sana tolak sini
measurment sana measurement sini until end of the day. no the end .

hazy wrote:

jazzy939 wrote:I think at the end of the day, it boils down to two things.
Are you listening to music or listening to details...?

i think adjust sana adjust sini , tweak sana tweak sini , tolak sana tolak sini
measurment sana measurement sini until end of the day. no the end .

some people actually enjoy doing all this endless adjustments. Who's to say if they are right or wrong ?

mugenfoo wrote:

hazy wrote:

jazzy939 wrote:I think at the end of the day, it boils down to two things.
Are you listening to music or listening to details...?

i think adjust sana adjust sini , tweak sana tweak sini , tolak sana tolak sini
measurment sana measurement sini until end of the day. no the end .

some people actually enjoy doing all this endless adjustments. Who's to say if they are right or wrong ?

Heart can say , Ears can say , Eyes can say.......no no no . yes yes yes
oh no no no oh yah yah right ok ok ngam cun . arghhhhh sweet . common frd join listen . sweeet nice dream tomorrow i think , i think , i think 1 mm enought sure cun. adjust .......

mugenfoo wrote:
some people actually enjoy doing all this endless adjustments. Who's to say if they are right or wrong ?

Similarly to those who can't resist tinkering with their cars, despite everything could be already optimal and insist on sucking out that last 1hp.

... And your point being?

cmboy wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:
some people actually enjoy doing all this endless adjustments. Who's to say if they are right or wrong ?

Similarly to those who can't resist tinkering with their cars, despite everything could be already optimal and insist on sucking out that last 1hp.

There's a bit of both in listening. Music & the technicalities of the music. You could enjoy a good Ray Charles tune on the Mini compo. But i'm sure you'd enjoy it even more if you could hear it as it was recorded, with perfectly tuned instruments, and in a recording studio. Hifi is supposed to give you that ability, so technicalities do come into it when you want it to sound as it was recorded. Some people get a kick out of finding the subtleties in the music and tune their hifi equipments accordingly, nothing wrong with that.

mugenfoo wrote:

jazzy939 wrote:I think at the end of the day, it boils down to two things.
Are you listening to music or listening to details...?

if listening to details leads to a better ENJOYMENT of the music, why not?

One can listen to the sonic clarity, good dynamics and etc etc of the hifi technicalities.
One then digests the overall presentation that leads to the enjoyment and appreciation of music.


If its just purely listening to music alone without regards for the technicalities or accuracy of reproduction, then no need for massive and complex hifi systems. This would be easily achieved with a simple iPod+earphones or mini compo already.

Spoiler:

Precisely.

kamen555 wrote:There's a bit of both in listening. Music & the technicalities of the music. You could enjoy a good Ray Charles tune on the Mini compo. But i'm sure you'd enjoy it even more if you could hear it as it was recorded, with perfectly tuned instruments, and in a recording studio. Hifi is supposed to give you that ability, so technicalities do come into it when you want it to sound as it was recorded. Some people get a kick out of finding the subtleties in the music and tune their hifi equipments accordingly, nothing wrong with that.

hi 5 ing habit.

... and your point being?

hazy wrote:hi 5 ing habit.

back to the topic.........

I heard the acrylic platter compared with the stock rega glass platter. The acrylic one does appear to give it more flesh (so to speak) to my ears. Give it a listen I think you will be able to tell the difference.

2tigers wrote:back to the topic.........
I heard the acrylic platter compared with the stock rega glass platter. The acrylic one does appear to give it more flesh (so to speak) to my ears. Give it a listen I think you will be able to tell the difference.

I've already invested in one much earlier and there's no gostan.

Does that mean the acrylic platter is 'better' than the stock glass?

Personally I like it on the Rega, and speak for myself. If I simply say its better than glass, others may start to retort or argue.

I know what u meant cmboy.
My Systemdek came with a glass platter.. with all the moving and shifting for the last 25 years, the platter has chipped.. am wondering if Rega's acrylic platter would fit the Systemdek...

Rega acrylic or glass platter have a 18mm center spindle hole. Go figure.

Is this an 'upgrade mod' from Rega for their Plannar series of TTs ? If so, which Plannar models is it available for and how much for one. I desperately want to avoid spending any more money on my system but the hands are always so itchy !!