How much RM$ needed to get a "High" quality stereo system?

sanguine wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:

Curious question:
Is there anyone here having something akin to a RM50K system driven with a RM120 "Akira" DVD player source to play CDs ? Anyone ... anyone ?

Going on basis of ratio, does an Audio Research CD7 (RM34,000) with a Luxman integrated circa '80 (RM600) count?

Lets see..... lets say RM600 in 1983 just for calculation's sake....
compounded at say, a 6% annual inflation.

That makes it to 600 x 1.06)^(2010-1983) = 600 x 1.06^(27) = 2893 bucks in today's dollar value!

So its really a $34K CD player feeding an almost $3K amp. Not quite the ratio, but still within the spirit of the example.....

mugenfoo wrote:

Then by any amount of bulletproof reasoning, the ULTIMATE role has got to be the electricity from TNB !

Case in point: If there was a neighbourhood blackout and you don't happen to have a diesel or backup generator for your home, whats there to really cause the speakers move for "direct contacts with eardrums" ?

well, another option is battery power system. that will (nearly) eliminate tnb from the audio chain.

cheers,
wps

junchoon wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:

Then by any amount of bulletproof reasoning, the ULTIMATE role has got to be the electricity from TNB !

Case in point: If there was a neighbourhood blackout and you don't happen to have a diesel or backup generator for your home, whats there to really cause the speakers move for "direct contacts with eardrums" ?

well, another option is battery power system. that will (nearly) eliminate tnb from the audio chain.

cheers,
wps

... but how long can the battery system last ?

Even battery systems are not totally free from noise as they need alot of inverter circuitry to generate the AC which in turn drives the equipment. Unless u can custom feed Battery DC straight into all your equipment. Which goes back to the above question again.

mugenfoo wrote:

tlkoo wrote:the spkrs need signals while the sources must hv spkrs, amps etc in the chain of music repro, need i mention the ears to hear & skin to feel, heart to interpret etc etc... ru here to advocate chicken comes first or egg does? me not! u needn't "throw" magazines, dictionary, cables etc herein

i never claimed neither wld i insinuate tt spkrs play the ultimate role likewise not sources let alone amps, cables... but one goes all out with source, only left less than proportionate budget for other similarly important components within the chain! again i don't trust tt source cld ever play the ultimate role!!!

oh ya, sorry to throw in an out-of-context childish-ly mediocre question: has anyone with turntable of tangential arm & programmable laser cartrige deployed some rm99 jilakak branded 2.1 spkr system bought from lowyat??? come on... don't argue for its sake!!!


i rest my case from "chicken & egg" before some guy may "throw" in the hen then, hen's hubbie thereof, the hen coop etc...




rgds/tlkoo

Ahhh.. thank you ... at least some of us here are CAPABLE of a well worded response ! ... God knows these are in such short supply lately.

Now back to the matter at hand . OK, so it can be established that Neither extremes could be the final say. The chicken is not the ultimate, neither is the egg.

tlkoo, So, it can it be said that you also won't TRUST the speaker to be the ULTIMATE role as well ?

So what are we left with here ? Its the CHICKEN AND EGG that completes the eco-system and therefore, ALL are important? Korrekto ?

hey mgf

i didn't claim spkrs as ultimate, did i? or had i unintentionally hinted it?

for the purpose of advising some guy to start a setup from scratch (with recognition tt source, amp & spkrs shall utilise reasonably equal budget) there simply exists NO LOGIC to go all out for source!!! confusing & misleading, isnt it?

being way past my starting point since umpteen yrs ago, currently my amp is 5x- 10x more costly than my spkrs & source, why is it so? as me no newbie & i'm sure many of us who hv dabbled long enough with hifi/music repro ought to hv known their owns desires & thus duly departed from the reasonable budget ratio



hey... exchange of posts at times may bring abt unintended misunderstanding more than the intended concerns, i really hv to rest my case tho i prefer some tea to quench thirst not forgeting my thirst for knowledge/experience sharing from u eh




smooth work!

cheers
tlkoo

sanguine wrote:Bimmer,

Sorry but doesnt that support your point of spending on source, GIGO.

If the music is the ultimate objective then how can the amp be inferior if it achieves that goal? Are we back to the issue of should the equipment glorify the music or the other way around?

I take it you own the RM650 amp and RM30K+ CD player then? My mistake, It supports my GIGO theory. I read it the other way.

As for equiptment glorifying music, I really don't know. No much of a phylosopher here but maybe I could be guilty because I tend to look for gear that appeals to the eye as much as the ear. Quad fans please forgive me but I could never buy this CD player for the way it looks even if it sounds the best. Am I guilty you think?

Quad cd66 is one of best sound cd player in very good price. But now I heard this second value of this cd player sometimes more expensive a bit that new one in Malaysia Market???

Hey, to all who new to Hifi, using tt for source? U r finding troble....
U do need to think twice b4 u go into tt. Not to say tt is not good, but it just not the right time to go in.

Going into tt , u need a lot of acc. Can easily cost u 10k n that 10k give u nothing much......

Go for cd until u reach a certain level then only go for tt. If your cd don't sound right how can your tt sound right????

noodle88 wrote:
Go for cd until u reach a certain level then only go for tt. If your cd don't sound right how can your tt sound right????

100% agree. When system sound right. Entry level Cd player also very enjoy although got many weakness.

If you can put up with the hassle a tt offers better sound quality for the money. Most CDs will still have that hard digital glare. And its not rocket science to set up a turntable.

It is very true that a good entry level CD Player is many times cheaper than a good entry level turntable-system (i.e. with arm and catridge and arm-cable). The cheapest competent tt is probably the Rega Plannar P1. Add a good catrdige and it will start to approach 1.5k if not 2k. For that amount of money, a CD Player might return very competitive sound already. A very good sounding budget TT like the Rega P3-24 or the Clearaudio Emotion, etc are going to start pushing 5k to 7k. For this kind of money, a CD player can still be a viable contender though will be outclassed. However, once we go real high-end, the TT quickly pulls away from the CD player in terms of sound quality.

noodle88 wrote:Hey, to all who new to Hifi, using tt for source? U r finding troble....
U do need to think twice b4 u go into tt. Not to say tt is not good, but it just not the right time to go in.

Going into tt , u need a lot of acc. Can easily cost u 10k n that 10k give u nothing much......

Go for cd until u reach a certain level then only go for tt. If your cd don't sound right how can your tt sound right????

Are you telling people not to "go into TT" because its not the "right time now" ?
So when is it ever the right time ? Is the "right time" going to be coming soon in the future, or has it gone past into history already?

On what basis are you making such a claim ? Do you play TT yourself?


So someone who for example, just has a pair of bookshelf speakers, maybe a simple NAD 3020 amp & NAD PP1 phono stage, and a simple Rega P1 or P2 as source but no CD player .... is this wrong ???

Ahyo,

U ( mugenfoo) think u the only one who play with tt ah???
Me too own an entry level tt, setup as below :-

tt : vpi
arm : triplanar
cartrage: otofon jublilee
phono amp: multi curve phono pre from audio image

how do u think GURU Foo!?? Am my entry level tt setup enough to make my judgement ???

I always told my children to be humble n not to be........
Don't your teacher tough u that !????

noodle88 wrote:Ahyo,

U ( mugenfoo) think u the only one who play with tt ah???
Me too own an entry level tt, setup as below :-

tt : vpi
arm : triplanar
cartrage: otofon jublilee
phono amp: multi curve phono pre from audio image

how do u think GURU Foo!?? Am my entry level tt setup enough to make my judgement ???

I always told my children to be humble n not to be........
Don't your teacher tough u that !????

I dunno why u keep calling me GURU here .... You are the one here who is real GURU , telling people not to play TT but go for CD first.

And you still havent answered the question as to when is really the "right time" to go into TT???

And it doesnt matter what TT or equipment you're using. Your judgement is as obtuse and irrational (as always).

Hmmm.... Lets try and dig back all the noodle guru's remarks for all to see...
BTW, you can leave your children out of this ya (trust me, you don't wanna go there) ... this is only about hifi and your massively misguided "judgements" on this matter.

Here we go... all the wonder "judgements / GURU advices" from noodle...
Newly added point.6 !!

1. Hi power = hi distortion

noodle88 wrote:
only a good hi sensitive speaker match with a single ended amp can
produce something miricle that u all cannot experance in hi power n hi
distortion system

2. If 8 Watts of power is not enough, try 3.5Watts instead.

noodle88 wrote:
However, I disagree with our friend that 8w ( should be a 300b amp )
can drive a pair of klipsch Conner horn to it's max. I would say our
friend use a wrong amp. He should have use a hi quality 3.5w 2a3 amp to
drive the Conner horn, then only the bass will go much lower n deeper.
The piano note also can be very accurate like no other system.

3. Reading Japanese & Chinese hifi mags is the only way to "learn" and "know" about hifi.

noodle88 wrote:
Good morning, guru foo n guru wong.
Do u all read up any books on speaker building before u all make command?
I think both of u don't know Chinese or Japanese . Have yet look at the
Hifi biggest markets, japan, hong kong n china. Go to the net a do a
research, see what do those hi end Hifi kaki play with. Ask them, do
they know what tannoy westminster is all about. Do u know that, most
15" hi efficency speaker in the world have been bought over by them. R
they nuts???

4. Use a RM4.50/ft powercord, PM him for more details!

noodle88 wrote:
For cable, only use the one that cost me rm4.50 per ft. Best value for many. For who interest pm me.

5. This GURU can "tune" powercords!! Somebody give him a medal!

noodle88 wrote:
Do you know how to tune your powercord???
I guest u don't . So don't
act as sifu here, u just buy things n listern, n then sell if not
suitable. That's not the way, do u know that u can tune the speed of
your by using the same powercord?!?!

6. Ohhh.. the master GURU has spoken here again.... "U r finding troble"!

noodle88 wrote:Hey, to all who new to Hifi, using tt for source? U r finding troble....
U do need to think twice b4 u go into tt. Not to say tt is not good, but it just not the right time to go in.

Going into tt , u need a lot of acc. Can easily cost u 10k n that 10k give u nothing much......

Go for cd until u reach a certain level then only go for tt. If your cd don't sound right how can your tt sound right????

Pls excuse me..

Actually I'm very curious on when exactly is the right time to "play" tts? I've been into hi-fi for the last 15 years since I was a student in the UK and got exposed to NADs, Arcams, Missions, KEFs and the like. The only reason I've not gone into tts yet is more to do with my laziness and lack of funds rather than knowledge or technical reasons. To me if you know what's positive or negative and left from right it should not be difficult to align a cartridge, set tracking force etc. A tt is a very mechanical device so just don't expect to twiddle software or knobs. If unsure make sure you can get a good dealer to assist and help guide you on setup. Alternatively there are also many journals out there on tt set-up. Michael Fremer even has a video on this if I'm not mistaken.

llsaw wrote: Pls excuse me..

Actually I'm very curious on when exactly is the right time to "play" tts? I've been into hi-fi for the last 15 years since I was a student in the UK and got exposed to NADs, Arcams, Missions, KEFs and the like. The only reason I've not gone into tts yet is more to do with my laziness and lack of funds rather than knowledge or technical reasons. To me if you know what's positive or negative and left from right it should not be difficult to align a cartridge, set tracking force etc. A tt is a very mechanical device so just don't expect to twiddle software or knobs. If unsure make sure you can get a good dealer to assist and help guide you on setup. Alternatively there are also many journals out there on tt set-up. Michael Fremer even has a video on this if I'm not mistaken.

Exactly. Anytime is as good a time as any when one feels they are ready. Maybe you just inherited a whole stack of LPs from a relative or perhaps they were generously given from a friend, or if one day you've heard a system with LP playing that just really pleased your ears or charmed your heart. So anytime is a good time to play LPs.

Don't worry about the technicalities of LP, if you have the interest to get involved, its all part of the fun and learning process.

Spoiler:

mugen,

As a diyer, my understanding on noodle88's statement as below, he may not explain in detail:

1) hi power = higher distortion --> if refer to the same amp, it normally having higher distortion when run at higher power then when it run at low power. This is true. look at most of the high power amp, say 200w amp, when run at low power it normally run at class A mode which give lower distortion, when run at higher power it change to Ab or other mode which have higher distortion.

2) 8w 300b may not drive the bass as good as a good 3.5w 2A3.
For those who familiar with tube, probably find 2A3 's LF band is can go lower than a 300B and have more quantity of LF than 300B. this is not the issue of the power, it is the tube characteristic that 2A3 have more lower bass than 300B (of course depend on brand as well).

3) reading japanese & chinese article can increase more knowledge -> instead of depending on single source(english only), those who can read english, chinese & japanese will get more knowledge as they have 3 source type. which i do agree especially when deal will modification, diy very often it is easier to get information from chinese source than english source.

4) tt is not for beginer /newbie - no doubt setting up a tt is more complicated than setting up a CD player especially for beginner.

sswong, appreciate your clarifications...
but if u follow the previous threads, its basically as follows:

1. Noodle is claiming self-righteousness that massively built powerhouse amps sound like mini-compo compared to his super duper high-end SET tube amp. Self-righteous + self-deceit. Nuff said.

2. This is pretty much self-explanatory.

3. Another self-deceitful/self-righteous statement from noodle. Perhaps only applicable to his own handicapp his his own poor comprehension of the english language. And also to add, a glaring lack of understanding or appreciation for the technicalities and fundamental physics of audio reproduction.

4. Completely DISAGREE here. Everyone has got to start somewhere. Thats why there are very successful REGAs and Pro-Jects and etc etc brands for the BEGINNERS who want to dabble in TT to start with. If everyone takes on the "thou art not worthy to play TT because thou art a greenhorn in hifi", then this is just complete bullsh!t. You can also have the same morons who cannot operate a CD player properly, smudging their fingerprints all over the surface, throwing them like frisbees and scratching them up nicely, or even putting the discs wrong side-facing. etc etc. Would you tell them NOT to play CDs instead?
Or rather EDUCATE them on how to properly operate such equipment?

If one doesn't want to bother with the fuss of TT settings, a Rega P1 + Rega cartridge is an EXCELLENT way to start.... Step by step cook-book style instructions fully included.


Oh, but obviously this is not good enough here for Mr. "I play a VPI turntable with Triplanar arm and Ortofon Jublilee cartridge with RM4.50/ft orange colour power cable best best sound in the whole world so i got to tell the world about my TT system therefore i can pass judgement on you beginners who are not worthy to play TT but i still teach my children to be humble.... Yes; do as daddy says, but not as daddy does in hifi4sale forum!"

sswong3374 wrote:mugen,

As a diyer, my understanding on noodle88's statement as below, he may not explain in detail:

1) hi power = higher distortion --> if refer to the same amp, it normally having higher distortion when run at higher power then when it run at low power. This is true. look at most of the high power amp, say 200w amp, when run at low power it normally run at class A mode which give lower distortion, when run at higher power it change to Ab or other mode which have higher distortion.

2) 8w 300b may not drive the bass as good as a good 3.5w 2A3.
For those who familiar with tube, probably find 2A3 's LF band is can go lower than a 300B and have more quantity of LF than 300B. this is not the issue of the power, it is the tube characteristic that 2A3 have more lower bass than 300B (of course depend on brand as well).

3) reading japanese & chinese article can increase more knowledge -> instead of depending on single source(english only), those who can read english, chinese & japanese will get more knowledge as they have 3 source type. which i do agree especially when deal will modification, diy very often it is easier to get information from chinese source than english source.

4) tt is not for beginer /newbie - no doubt setting up a tt is more complicated than setting up a CD player especially for beginner.

Ah.. it looks like we are now digressing into classic valve vs solid state. About as old as NA Bagus vs turbo and today diesel vs petrol. Both valve or tubes and solid states have their own inherent strengths and weakness and neither is perfect. However it would be folly to only expound the virtues of either and trying to impose these on the masses that either format is the bestest greatest will never work from experience and the usual ugly end result has been demonstrated to absolute perfection in this forum. Chill out guys.

Oh oh .. We are deviating from the topic of this thread.

Let's have some healthy discussions ....

sph wrote:Oh oh .. We are deviating from the topic of this thread.

Let's have some healthy discussions ....

it only started getting unhealthy when someone shot from his ass about telling beginners/newbies that " playing TT is troble, stick to CDs!" (and where i get to do alot more finger exercise on the keyboard as well).


OK, so lets get back to the subject at hand: How much $$$ needed is completely in the wallet of the BEHOLDER (aka mr/ms. Big Spender).

The fine art of this game is for any amount spent, the get the UTMOST performance and enjoyment from it. One does not need to keep chasing for "bigger, badder, higher priced equipment" as there is really no end to it. Today, brand-X TT may be the best in the world today. Tomorrow, manufacturer-Z will come out with something new and improved to One-up the incumbent. Such is the capitalistic nature of consumerism and this is also how things evolve and improve on the whole. Call it the "price of progress" if you may. Thats just how the world runs.

I for one find nothing wrong in what was said by noodle88 if read in context.

Question: If newbie approaches us for advice, would you/we encourage newbie to buy a tt or a cdp? given the potential issues of a tt set up, need to procure a p/stage or find an amp with a built in p/stage, cost of vinyl these days, availability, maintenance etc.?

I have no doubt there are 2 sides to a coin.

Bite wrote:I for one find nothing wrong in what was said by noodle88 if read in context.

Question: If newbie approaches us for advice, would you/we encourage newbie to buy a tt or a cdp? given the potential issues of a tt set up, need to procure a p/stage or find an amp with a built in p/stage, cost of vinyl these days, availability, maintenance etc.?

I have no doubt there are 2 sides to a coin.

The spirit of recommendation would be fine such that if newbie is thinking of dabbling into TT, one can highlight the pros & cons, cost & benefits, etc etc.

But imposing a judgement on whether now or kingdom come would be the right time or not to dabble into TT is a totally different matter.

The same comparison could be said for CDs vs MP3s. Why pay for a CD when u can buy online from the iTunes store for a couple of bucks ? Or in the case of the younger generation, they just "obtain" their music from the various BitTorrent sites.

Example:: Is there a golden rule that says: You must START from MP3s, then progress on to CDs, then only "Graduate" to play vinyls ?

I bought an el cheapo old TT for RM180 last time, like 10yrs ago.
Not that I want to change to TT completely from CD..
I bought the TT because I was very curious at the "technology" behind it and to learn how to play with it.
( I could not find another word for the "technology". Sorry. )

During my time, it has been the CD era already.
Not many around my age actually played (or seen) a real TT.
Therefore, the chances of actually getting a good condition used old TT were slim that time.
I believe many old TT and LPs have been thrown away when people moved into new houses.
I was fortunate enough and with a puny budget, I bought a used TT and an uncle helped me to tune it (not a pro, of course!).
There you go, I can enjoy TT from then on and with such a small amount of money spent.

As for the million dollar question raised by TS, I would say you have to look at your pocket and see how much you can afford to fork out without having to sacrifice other daily necessities.
There are just many things out there which are beyond our budget....

How much $$$ needed for high end?
There really is not limit to it. It is all relative. It's all about what you can afford and what you are willing to fork out.
Some can afford 10K; some can afford 20k; some have no limit to the amount he/she can afford.
Bottom line ... It's all up to oneself to determine his/her own budget.
Topics (or rather, questions) like these don't really have an answer.

The original poster was asking for a 'high' quality system, as in something we all feel is reasomably and good enough to start off. Not 'high-end' system. One can spend RM1k on a mini-compo which some people calls hifi. Or 10k. Or anything in between. Or even much more. But what the poster wanted to know is that if he wants to get his first system and he needs to budget and save up, how much should he aim for.

I have two addition inputs to this thread.

One is that I have always adviced and will continue to advise people to consider buying new as well as used. The services of a good dealer is invaluable, especially to the newcomer. Even for the seasoned hifi enthusiast, the dealer by virtue of his sheer experience, can often offer crucial advise and services. We only listen to our own system. We fiddle with our own system, occasionally one or two of our friends' as well. A good dealer installs countless systems day in and day out. He gets to deal with different systems, different problems, different customers, different preferences. This gives him invaluable skills. In set-up. In problem resolution. In system matching. Etc. This skill is something worth paying a premium for.

So if there is a great deal in a used equipment direct from a seller, do go ahead and get it. But don't only limit yourself to doing that. Consider also paying a small premium to get something new from a good dealer.

My other input is that no matter what budget one plays at. And no matter how new or experience one is, it is ALWAYS the right time to start on a TT. From slightly over RM1k, we can get a Rega Plannar 1. The alternatives from there are countless, as the price increase, the quality follows as well. Rega Plannar 1, 2, 3, P24, 5. ProJet. and so forth. They are all excellent TTs for beginners who wishes to start on their first TT. For around 5k, the entry level Clearaudio TT (comes with arm) and a good Benz Micro catridge can offer sound quality even high-end CDPs, or transport-DAC combos and SACD players will struggle to match.

So now is as good a time as any to get your first TT. As long as you have the source (of LPs) to play on it. And do be open minded for getting a brand new TT from a good, reputable and knowledgeable dealer.

[quote="mugenfoo But imposing a judgement on whether now or kingdom come would be the right time or not to dabble into TT is a totally different matter[/quote]

You see it as judgement and I, his point of view. Really a matter of how we choose to see it.

For example some may take exception if they choose to see your posts on this matter as an imposition of your judgement on his point of view.

Take another example (heck I dont know how to extract a portion of Mr. Wongs post to insert here....ok cut n paste) "the entry level Clearaudio TT (comes with arm) and a good Benz Micro catridge can offer sound quality even high-end CDPs, or transport-DAC combos and SACD players will struggle to match"

I take that as nothing more than his view but some may say he is imposing his judgement and take umbrage.

After all isnt one's view or advice nothing more than a personal judgement?

Anyway I am sure we could argue this until the cows come home so i'll just end my judgement on that note.

Have a good day mugenfoo.

Bite,

OK, call it "point of view" if u like. It could also be termed "cannon fodder" (or forum fodder in this context).

The Clearaudio vs CD/SACD example , if anyone would like to enquire further can do so, and then let WongKN explain further his position based on either experiences or real world examples.

This is a totally different thing from a blatant "point of view" of thou art not worthy to play vinyl and thou asks for troble!. And i did "ask" first for clarification first, but alas the reply was left far wanting. So yes, hence my imposition on that totally idiotic and moronic initial point o' view. That's where i get to unload and dump hell-to-pay and some finger exercises on the keyboard gymnasium.


u have a good day too !

So the question was "How much RM$ needed to get a "High" quality stereo system?"

Here's my take based on what may sound fine to me:

Source:
Something like the Marantz CD63SE or KI perhaps. Less than RM1k but for RM2K you can do alot better
or
Something from Rega like P1. Less than RM2K

Used Integrated Amp:
Cyrus2 - Less than RM2K
or
Audiolab 800A - Less than RM2K

Bookshelf Speakers:
Something single concentric, time aligned, phased aligned from KEF perhaps? Or similar from Mordaunt Short?

Less than RM3K

Some decent speaker stands RM500 thereabouts

Interconnects, speaker cables from Cord Company RM600 thereabouts

Good powercords from Furutech perhaps - RM1200 for three

So how much? Lemme see... In the ballpark of RM10K!

my take for a High quality system

source: bryston bcd-1 (list about rm12k) or ayre cx-7emp (list about rm15k)
side bets ("cheapo" or no local dealer version): marantz sa8003, oppo bdp-83se (can't beat bang for buck or versatality), or the emotiva erc-1 (balanced outputs! under usd500!), pioneer pd-d9 mkii

amp: krell (s300i or kav-400xi, both list about rm12k), or a pre-power combo from bryston or jeff rowland
side bets: emotiva 2 X xpa-1 monoblocks with usp-1 (combined price plus shipping and tax about usd3000), marantz pm8003

speakers: harbeth shl-5 (list about 8k to 10k), tannoy dc6t, or spendor a6 (list about 15k), proac d28
side bets: diy proac 2.5 clone, dali mentor ikon 6, or monitor audio rs6

u r looking at a list price of about rm32k minimal, before speaker/power/interconnect cables or racks.

but my brief and limited exposure to hifi draw a simple conclusion: your listening room is the most expensive/critical part of your audio system

cheers,
wps

But of course if money were less of an object, I'd choose to have a Mark Levinson source, Krell amplification and Sonus Faber speakers. Interconnects ould be Kimber select balanced and Transparent speaker cables. Powercords, I choose Shunyata and maybe Furutech. Oh yeah! If money was less of an issue.

bimmerman wrote:But of course if money were less of an object, I'd choose to have a Mark Levinson source, Krell amplification and Sonus Faber speakers. Interconnects ould be Kimber select balanced and Transparent speaker cables. Powercords, I choose Shunyata and maybe Furutech. Oh yeah! If money was less of an issue.

Hey, wait a minute... I'm almost there!

bimmerman wrote:But of course if money were less of an object, I'd choose to have a Mark Levinson source, Krell amplification and Sonus Faber speakers. Interconnects ould be Kimber select balanced and Transparent speaker cables. Powercords, I choose Shunyata and maybe Furutech. Oh yeah! If money was less of an issue.

i dont think the TS set a limit, so i was being liberal of what i view as hqss.

rm32k can buy small car or downpayment for a house.

cheers,
wps

Your suggestions are financially frightening! I believe the request was for a "High" quality stereo system and not an Ultra "High End" system

llsaw wrote:Your suggestions are financially frightening! I believe the request was for a "High" quality stereo system and not an Ultra "High End" system

go to hifi-unlimited blogspot for ultra high end stuff/poison.

cheers,
wps

Good condition old Quad cdp66 + Quad 66 pre + Quad 606mk1 power + Harbeth m30 or SHL5, quad original cable. This one of best system in their price, although not perfect but musical enough.

bimmerman wrote:

Hey, wait a minute... I'm almost there!

Wah.. bimmer.. still cannot sleep well over the ML dream ah?
Bila mau take the plunge?

caroscope,

Me got a Singapore trip coming soon. If it's still there waiting for me, it's fated to be. If not, que sera. My Cary CD300 shod with vintage Telefunkies already delivers the sonic goodies in container loads. It's that good!

I'd imagine the Levinson to be much of the same but less valvy and thinner sounding but delivering even more sonic goodies in other departments. What sonic goodies do i expect? I don't know because i've never been that high up in audio xanadu before. For all i know i could be dissappointed by the Levinson. The Cary could have been heaven without me realising. Afterall, the Cary was a RM12K player back in 1997. Factor in inflation and such and it also cost the price of a small car.

Whatever may be, i'll tell you when i get there. Or you could watch the for sale section for Bimmerman's Levinson or Cary for sale. Till then, the eyebags will only get worse...

Wow.. that's a great shooping trip.
Hopefully, the result will be what you are hoping for.
Then, you shall have a good night sleep.

I'd like to share a comment from Wes Phillips of Stereophile when reviewing the Krell KAV300CD and using it with a cheaper anp and an even cheaper pair of US$250 speakers. Here's what he wrote:

"While some might find it silly to put a $3500 CD player and a $2350 integrated amplifier in the same system as a pair of $250 loudspeakers, it made for a genuinely kickin' system. And substituting a cheaper CD player and more expensive speakers served only to illustrate how important the front-end is—I got a lot more information out of the system with the Krell and the B&Ws than I did with a $250 CD player and $3500 loudspeakers. Listen for yourself, but if you have to cut corners when constructing a system, I urge you to not skimp on the front-end".

bimmerman wrote:I'd like to share a comment from Wes Phillips of Stereophile when reviewing the Krell KAV300CD and using it with a cheaper anp and an even cheaper pair of US$250 speakers. Here's what he wrote:

"While some might find it silly to put a $3500 CD player and a $2350 integrated amplifier in the same system as a pair of $250 loudspeakers, it made for a genuinely kickin' system. And substituting a cheaper CD player and more expensive speakers served only to illustrate how important the front-end is—I got a lot more information out of the system with the Krell and the B&Ws than I did with a $250 CD player and $3500 loudspeakers. Listen for yourself, but if you have to cut corners when constructing a system, I urge you to not skimp on the front-end".

this is very true. its like two b18c but one choose to have dastek unichip replacing its oem management, the other choose to wear vr gramslight in the hope of gaining more torque for its light weight wheel. both cost almost the same but the unichip beats out the vr in the end.. even though the vr do looks super cool in the 1st place

I've totally lost you there Azri. Totally.

But AC Schnitzer and Alpina I dig

ac shitnzer & alpenis? cool

azri wrote:

bimmerman wrote:I'd like to share a comment from Wes Phillips of Stereophile when reviewing the Krell KAV300CD and using it with a cheaper anp and an even cheaper pair of US$250 speakers. Here's what he wrote:

"While some might find it silly to put a $3500 CD player and a $2350 integrated amplifier in the same system as a pair of $250 loudspeakers, it made for a genuinely kickin' system. And substituting a cheaper CD player and more expensive speakers served only to illustrate how important the front-end is—I got a lot more information out of the system with the Krell and the B&Ws than I did with a $250 CD player and $3500 loudspeakers. Listen for yourself, but if you have to cut corners when constructing a system, I urge you to not skimp on the front-end".

this is very true. its like two b18c but one choose to have dastek unichip replacing its oem management, the other choose to wear vr gramslight in the hope of gaining more torque for its light weight wheel. both cost almost the same but the unichip beats out the vr in the end.. even though the vr do looks super cool in the 1st place

Stupid analogy. Anyone who hopes to "gain" more torque/power in the first place via swapping huge round chunks of metal obviously has not put in any or enough "dyno time" to be worth their effort in salt.

But major digression here ... lets get back to hifi...

bimmerman wrote:caroscope,

Me got a Singapore trip coming soon. If it's still there waiting for me, it's fated to be. If not, que sera. My Cary CD300 shod with vintage Telefunkies already delivers the sonic goodies in container loads. It's that good!

I'd imagine the Levinson to be much of the same but less valvy and thinner sounding but delivering even more sonic goodies in other departments. What sonic goodies do i expect? I don't know because i've never been that high up in audio xanadu before. For all i know i could be dissappointed by the Levinson. The Cary could have been heaven without me realising. Afterall, the Cary was a RM12K player back in 1997. Factor in inflation and such and it also cost the price of a small car.

Whatever may be, i'll tell you when i get there. Or you could watch the for sale section for Bimmerman's Levinson or Cary for sale. Till then, the eyebags will only get worse...

The 'ML sound' is usually characterized by a rather dark soundstage but good focus. Nevertheless the soundstage can be quite big and expansive, with good layering and placement of instruments, singers, etc. The sound is tonally rich and never thin or hard. Highs are sweet but doesn't have that ultimate extension of say an equivalent Krell. But competitive with valve like ARC, and so forth. By comparison a Krell high-end component is a lot more transparent with higher highs but which can become bright and harsh if not matched and set-up properly. The ML sound is always musical, compared to Krells, esp their power amps, Krells can sound a bit 'macho-ish' or even hifi-ish (the exceptions are the KAS, KAS-2 and MRAs which sounds extremely musical, much better than the ML). Bass is of course exquisite, bested perhaps only by the best Krell alternatives. Compared to an equivalent Krell, the ML can resolve individual instruments or singer even in loud and complex passages fairly well but loses out ultimately to Krell.

What I am describing briefly is the sound of ML 26 and 23.5. Don't ask me for other details of why I am so familar with them though. I understand even the latest 335s, etc plus their CD players including DAC have so far all retained the family sonic signature. One of my good friends is an ML dealer here in KL and when I listened to his system during last year's KLAVS, it certainly sounded faithful to what I remember.

If you want a single word description of what you will probably find from the ML CDP, then to me that word would be 'excellent'. In fact I am fairly sure it will best your Cary in everything except tube warmth and tonal richness, though perhaps not significantly in most areas. You should not go wrong with the ML and if you can find one at a good deal, then ideally you should give it at least a quick listen to confirm and if you do commit, my personal humble opinion is that you will not go wrong.

encik mugen, do you know how light is rays gramlights per wheel? do you know why modders lighten their car internals & tends to choose very light car accs like carbonfibre bonet & light wheels?

yeah lets get back to hifi, its a never ending argument.. stupid to those who can not except the wide factors of human engineering & technologies..

Mr Wong,

Thank you for that very informative and highly assuring insight into the world of high end redbook via Krell and ML. Really appreciate it.

I have been researching for Krell and ML redbook playback for a while now and have found that there are no equvalent Krells and MLs. It always starts with a good Krell (KAV300CD), then an excellent ML (No.390s) and then the Superior Krell KPS25i. And from good to superior the price doubles each time!!!

I did get a quick 5 minute listen with the No.390s in Singapore played through some floor standing Sonus fabers, some hulking monoblocks and anaconda-like speaker cables. My focus was solely on the 390s, so much so I don't even remember what Sonusfabers or monoblocks those were.

Perhaps it was poorly setup or badly matched or perhaps I have poor listening acumen but for whatever reason, I felt it sounded all too familiar. Sounded like I could easily produce much of the same with my current equiptment.

But after reading what you wrote, yes, the 390swas rather valve sounding, sweet and the imaging was noteworthy. Pretty much what my Cary does. But then again I was standing only 3 feet from the speakers and 5 minutes was perhaps too brief.

Yes, I believe the huge price of admission will also reap huge sonic rewards and if it's still there when I go to Singapore I will buy it for sure!

azri wrote:encik mugen, do you know how light is rays gramlights per wheel? do you know why modders lighten their car internals & tends to choose very light car accs like carbonfibre bonet & light wheels?

yeah lets get back to hifi, its a never ending argument.. stupid to those who can not except the wide factors of human engineering & technologies..

no prob .. but check your PM...

Spoiler:

ok, back to hifi ..

mugenfoo wrote:

azri wrote:encik mugen, do you know how light is rays gramlights per wheel? do you know why modders lighten their car internals & tends to choose very light car accs like carbonfibre bonet & light wheels?

yeah lets get back to hifi, its a never ending argument.. stupid to those who can not except the wide factors of human engineering & technologies..

no prob .. but check your PM...

BTW, Grammlights are the "lower end" range from RAYS (casted wheels) and not part of the VR series. The real McCoys are the the Volk Racing (VR) series rims (forged wheels).

ok, back to hifi ..

My apologies for digressing. Am using Gram Lights 57S and it's bout 7kg or whereabouts for a 16" 7". The rims are cast so if you want to go lighter it'll have to be forged Rays like the TE37 or CE28N.

mugen whats your size of te37, is it fifteen inch? do you have to use center cone for vr & vr nuts are consider a must? 2saw, how much for those gramlights? rm3k? theres one set here in aussie its about rm3.6k after currency conversion.

ok back to hifi discussion

ones evil may be angel to another. it depends on what taste that one is in. for some, just a diy set less than 10k can sound as good. e.g.

hear it yourself at the octave.

modded marantz cd63 (clock, blackgate, OPA) - 1k

diy neslson pass B1 - 1k

diy Aleph 30A class A - 2.5k

diy speakers or KEF