Calling Maggie 1.6 Owners

Which amp? Kismet ka?
But I have to settle some basic stuffs first.
Have to start putting money into my piggy bank day by day. hehehehehe...

Odyssey, Imotiva, Wyred4sound... many happy punters on the MUG using these amps to drive Maggies very well.

Bal.

Chang, thanks very much for being a great host yesterday. We agree that it was a good choice to split out the visits as the room, to be honest is quite small. So anything more than the three of us yesterday night would be just too cramped for the room.

My personal opinion after experiencing the system is that the Maggie 1.7 is a VERY GOOD speaker indeed. With apologies, your system and room is very far from optimum. A LOT of problems needs to be fixed. But even then, the 1.7 was able to deliver a nicely transparent sound with relatively big soundstage and good solid imaging. IMHO, the 1.7 forms a very solid foundation for you to improve/upgrade your system. But before you run off and spend more money on amps or wires or CD players, etc, my personal opinion is that you need to spend time and effort to set some glaring issues right in your system. And not all of them are about spending money.

I tend to agree with Jo that the Marantz and the Exposure both drives your Maggie pretty well. The Exposure is the weaker one here and I do think there are clear signs of it not being able to control the 1.7 totally well, especially in the bass region. So your complaint about 'bad resonance' is, IMHO, related to the fact that the Exposure is unable to control the bass reproduction well. It reminds me of my ARC CL60 trying, and failing, to control my Apogee Centaur Majors. So, yes, I agree that a good, strong power amp would be beneficial to your system. BUT. That I agree with Jo that it can wait and you can do it later. Because I also agree with Jo that you need to fix some issues with the system as it currently is.

I think the Marantz Class A amp is better able to control the 1.7. To the extent that in terms of overall balance, I think the Marantz did a better job. There are individual areas that the Exposure do better. But you must now decide what areas are important to you. Unfortunately, my understanding after listening to you is that you prefer the overall balance of the Exposure. But the number of times you emphasized the bad resonance gave me the impression that you really can't tolerate it. So IMHO, you need to make an assessment and to decide. If indeed you must have the best of both worlds and which you really can't get now from either the Exposure or the Marantz, then I suppose you might have to shop for your new amp earlier.

About those glaring issues that IMHO you need to resolve first.

1. System and speaker placement. As Jo pointed out, I don't work from home so I may not see things from your perspective and I fully agree. However, for me I feel you need to get rid of that huge work table in the listening room. Again, I really do not know the situation of someone who works from home so you need to evaluate this suggestion carefully. The alternative of replacing a smaller table might be a worthwhile thing to consider.

2. Your speakers needs to be properly placed. I think this is the most important 'next thing' you need to do. A plannar speaker like Maggies and Apogees are very sensitive to placement and to their environment in general. They treat the room as their enclosure in a way. I.e. in some ways, you are actually sitting inside a speaker, when you play a plannar in your room. This puts special emphasis on room resonance, cancellation points, etc. Generally the guideline is to start with balanced placement, meaning the speaker's distance from the room boundaries (rear wall, side wall, etc) must be symmetrical (equal). I myself start with measuring and then marking the "1/3-1/7" points in a room. I.e. I measure the length and width of the room, then calculate the 1/3 location, i.e. where the speaker is placed 1/3 out from the rear wall (e.g. in a 12ft room, it is placed 4ft from the rear wall). Then for the width/breath, I calculate the 1/7 or sometimes 1/5 position depending on the actual dimension, i.e. if the width of the room is, say 10ft, then both speakers should be 1.4 ft from the side wall. This means they are around 7.2 ft apart. Alternately if the room is very large, say 15ft wide, then the speakers are placed 3ft from the side walls. This forms the initial placement. I then start to listen and fine-tune the position from there. Others of course have their personal favourite method as well. Research and experiment.

3. You really need better supports for your equipment. Those table legs and boards won't work at all. Follow Jo's suggestion and go get a proper rack from Tong Lee or some other shop. Again, you need to think ahead, especially what your final system might be. So for e.g. if you plan to go pre-power and stick to your DVD+SONY as the source, then you need a 4-tier rack, or ideally two 2-tier racks side by side.

4. Proper equipment seating is important. It can be a can of worms but you need to start experimenting with cones and other similar equipment support methods. How far you go along this path is up to you because if you know something about material science for e.g. you can really go a bit wild with various methods of supporting the equipment. But if you just want a workable approach which gives good sound, then just a good set of cones especially for the amp, would be mandatory.

5. I agree with Jo that your listening room is too 'life'. Meaning even just talking to each other we can hear echoes in the room already. So you need some means to dampen the liveliness of your room. Again our suggestion goes along the use of a rug or carpet, a large one that sits between the speaker and you. Then you might want to consider moving that 3-seater sofa in your living room into the listening room to serve as the listening chair. You can try some wall treatment if you like but seriously don't go overboard and spend lots of money of those special wall thingies from some of the hifi shops. One thing you must NEVER do is to treat the rear wall or even front wall (i.e. the wall behind the speaker or behind you). If you do that, you get suck-out from the sound, especially in the upper bass region. As it is, your bass is relatively good, just that it needs more control. Perhaps speaker placement might even go a long way to fixing that problem. FWIW, I felt that the final position of the speakers after Jo & I moved it around a bit, was very much better than initially.

Anyway, I think these are the things you need to do first before spending money on a new or additional amp. You can always start shopping around now of course but even if you get better sound from say a new Odyssey Karthiga power amp now, you are just not going to get the best sound from the system's potential because you will, like my metaphor, be driving a race car around the jammed roads of central KL, no chance to let it roar on an open road.

My personal opinions of course.

WongKN,

Thank you and Jo for an honest and unbiased assessment of my system in my listening room. This is what I wanted for some time. I want to know how a music lover like me measure up in high fidelity terms from expert audiophile like u and Jo.

Since u prefer the Marantz, i will listen to this amp first before looking into your recommendations. My earlier write up was based on the Exposure and have not seriously listen to Marantz.

magnepan wall mounted

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Magnepan-MGMC1-Wall-Mount-ribbon-speaker-/220672398252?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item33611993ac#ht_919wt_930

Chang,
Do take Wong's advice on room environment very seriously ... people often say Maggies have no bass, but because of the way I've set up my 1.6, and got my room to work with them, anyone who hears them is shocked. Needs work, yes, but very rewarding in the end ....

will like to audition that someday.. possible??

bassraptor wrote:Chang,
Do take Wong's advice on room environment very seriously ... people often say Maggies have no bass, but because of the way I've set up my 1.6, and got my room to work with them, anyone who hears them is shocked. Needs work, yes, but very rewarding in the end ....

WOW! Shocked!

WOW! (again)

Perhaps I shud have said "surprised", yes ... but I've had a number of close friends who were cynics coming over and their expressions said it all ...

Or are you being sarky and have a bone to pick with me?

bassraptor wrote:Perhaps I shud have said "surprised", yes ... but I've had a number of close friends who were cynics coming over and their expressions said it all ...

Or are you being sarky and have a bone to pick with me?

Why would I? I do not even know you.

Just WOW! that people were SHOCKED at the bass coming out from yr 1.6

(I bet Steven never had it so good).

Well, I recall somewhere you saying that the 3.6 would work in my room, as you'd seen my room before ... so ...

Well, okay, not one 1.6, but a pair of them ....

Steven? I know a number of them ....

More importantly .... which is bassraptor's main weapon of choice now ....
still the Maggies , or that black hybrid thingy of a speaker ...?

mugenfoo wrote:More importantly .... which is bassraptor's main weapon of choice now ....
still the Maggies , or that black hybrid thingy of a speaker ...?

i can't decide ... boobs or butt? hmmm .... choices, choices ...

bassraptor wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:More importantly .... which is bassraptor's main weapon of choice now ....
still the Maggies , or that black hybrid thingy of a speaker ...?

i can't decide ... boobs or butt? hmmm .... choices, choices ...

someone has gone waaaay off the tangent here already...
Need another moderator to whack this moderator back to senses.

Sorry, the other active moderator is also a damn hamsup barger. Just thank your lucky stars he doesn't join in all those talks about boobs and butts and tits and pussies, etc

azri wrote:will like to audition that someday.. possible??

maybe u are not welcome azri

Chang,

Thank you very much for the hospitality and the opportunity to listen to your Maggie 1.7.

Wong KN got everything covered well and I would not repeat (thank you Wong). What I would re-illiterate is that, 1.7 is indeed a very good sounding speakers, living up to its worldwide acclaims, if you develop your audio journey using this speakers as a reference, would yield very rewarding experience for you.

Jo Ki

Jo Ki,

You are welcome. I am honored to have met you. I also like to congrats you in setting up one of the best sounding system at recent KLAV Show. In fact its the most extended highs I have ever heard.

Hope to hear your LS3/5a system setup using world renowned 'Jo Ki' method in the near future.

gloraglory wrote:

azri wrote:will like to audition that someday.. possible??

maybe u are not welcome azri

its ok, i'll jump to your place & layan your mini compo + maggie kari letop

chang wrote:Jo Ki,

You are welcome. I am honored to have met you. I also like to congrats you in setting up one of the best sounding system at recent KLAV Show. In fact its the most extended highs I have ever heard.

Hope to hear your LS3/5a system setup using world renowned 'Jo Ki' method in the near future.

Oh! Then you have not heard those modern speakers when it is set-up well, they are more capable than LS3/5A few times over. To be honest, this speakers is not known for its high extension; I have to try very2 hard to get it. Anyway, good to know that it is not lacking to you (phew! ). You are welcome to drop-by for a listen to my system, sort of reciprocating your hospitality.

Your Maggie 1.7 would be able to show you examplerary transparency and openness due its superior hf extension. You just have to keep running-in while enjoy your music; explore it, challenge the listening environment, experiment its positioning, study your set-up... find the fun in each steps you take.

Jo Ki

The 1.7 looks great.

When I had my 1.6qr, I was driving them with a Krell KSA200 during most of it's life with me. What surprised me was that the Cary Audio 300b could also drive it well. The sound was lush and warm with the 300Bs. What amazed me was the amount of "air" and the way the vocals were.

I do miss them.

bassraptor wrote:Chang,
Do take Wong's advice on room environment very seriously ... people often say Maggies have no bass, but because of the way I've set up my 1.6, and got my room to work with them, anyone who hears them is shocked. Needs work, yes, but very rewarding in the end ....

Couldn't agree more. My 1.6 had an amazing amount of bass. The reproduction of the double bass will have you gripping the chair and the drums from Sheffield Labs will have your neighbors breaking down your door.

Other than placement, the most apparent difference came when I used the right speaker cables and interconnects.

Hey, guys, I just met a pair of box speakers I like - blew me away, really. The room was small, sound was a bit in my face, but whoa, grabbed me by the you-know-what and made me listen to one whole song!

ATC SCM100 ... active ... of course, there's a catch ... RM90k ...!

Fed by the new Ayre DX-5 and pre ....

bass,
that's the setup at Highway Laser right ? It is indeed very dynamic but a bit bright (in-the-face as you described). A bit ear bleeding ....especially if you play it loud, don't you think?

Could it be because it is still not run in yet ?
What music did you audition the speaker with ?

yes, that's the one. he played some swing jazz stuff with some massive saxophone, bass and drums. yeah, maybe not run-in yet ... still ...

what is it about the speaker you like most ? Can you give a brief review of sorts as compared with the maggies, for those who have not listened to a maggie :-)

I've always maintained it would take a lot of well-constructed box to compete with the Maggies ... now I know how much! I liked its immediacy and energy, along with the slam, and I think taming its perceive brightness would be an enjoyable challenge (not to mention bank-breaking). Laidback systems are not my cuppa ...

However, for those who have not heard Maggies of any kind, I have only one suggestion - go and listen to a pair somewhere. Unless you have RM90k loose change to spare, like Carz ...

Loose change of RM90k, me have not ! You mean there is no other boxed speakers you heard that comes close ?

I wonder how the ATC SCM100 will sound if partnered with Krell electronics, famed for its slam.

The SCM100 is active, no power amp needed. just a preamp, or a CD player with onboard preamp. I would try some tubes in front ...

The Magicos are damn good, too, but I need to hear them in a similar environment first.

I've heard the Focal Grand Utopia driven with Halcro amps ... it was a big room and I pretty much enjoyed my nap ...

I've heard the Focal Grand Utopia driven with Halcro amps ... it was a big room and I pretty much enjoyed my nap ...

I can imagine you are sitting on a couch, with 2 old men besides. Try get some Aishwarya Rai sit beside.

Yah, sad part of the hifi scene .... too many old men ...

Win some, lose some.....

cheers

i'd rather win the girl ...

bassraptor, I think you left out one word there.

Too many dirty old men.

Speak for yourself! ... My thoughts are pure ... i have only one thing in mind ...

The divine pleasure of the music being played out .....right

cheers

wingman wrote:The divine pleasure of the music being played out .....right

cheers

Man, you need to get a life beyond music and hi-fi!

bassraptor wrote:

wingman wrote:The divine pleasure of the music being played out .....right

cheers

Man, you need to get a life beyond music and hi-fi!

Ha Ha...Ha...

cheers

I am really tempted by the 1.7

It sounds to me like a 17 years gem waiting to 'polish'

I was told its mid and high really can you high. wow. the next in queue is 4 months ..

I heard that from the same dealer, there are people who paid full for their FM Acoustic amps and have been waiting for half a year or more. So, 4 months or even 6 months is chicken feed. Personally, if you have the amp and room to play it, I think it is a worthwhile wait. I think it is that good. Meaning relative to its price, the sound quality is really very high. In the past, I would have chosen Apogees which would also have given you a very solid alternative but now that Apogee is no more, and neither is Quad, you really don't have much choice if you want the plannar/ribbon sound.

FM Acoustics is a strange outfit ... they want their employees to turn out works of art so no pressure to finish a product until it is really finished ...

as for the 1.7 ... let's see how is goes over the next 12 months ... distributor thinks shud be faster delivery by then ....

or shud i save up for the magico/solution or atc? oh, just remembered .... i'd rather get a vw passat ...

I think the Q5 and Soulution monoblocs plus preamp and CD player all together costs more than that Passat......

I myself prefer a Merc for the daily driver if I have the spare money lying around. Which sadly I don't. So failing that, it's a Honda (what else ? ) hybrid.

actually, i'll settle for the new hyundai sonata .... keep the rest of the money for some finite elemente racks ...

Good choice ! Get one of the new remote controllable & tuneable Emperor racks !

will drop by steven place for a listening. aiyo, the white fabric is for tomorrow delivery lol.

does Emperor give you more authority in sound compare to spider, or the spider has more coloration than the Emperor.

All Finite Elemente racks gives you excellent support, lightweight but strong and rigid. The Spider is the most basic and is designed on solid mechanical principals. Up from the Spider is the Pagode which incorporates some tuning forks embedded into the rack which is supposed to be vibration sinks. In the brochure, they have a chart showing the effects of the forks. For each individual rack, the forks are specially tuned for it in the laboratory. Next up is the Master Reference racks which has more enhancements (not sure what they are since their prices are already sky high). Then the top model is the Emperor racks which has adjustable tuning to allow you to accomodate for different types of equipement, weight, size, etc. The other racks you have to manually match the racks to the equipment, using different types of supporting board, accessories, equipment fine placement within the boards and so forth.

There is a trend in the local scene which I really adhor and that is forceful stealing of product representation by shops which has tons of money to throw, stealing away from the smaller shops. When the smaller shops are the honest, down to earth shops, giving excellent service and with passionate owners, then I find this kind of practice dispicable. But it has become the norm for most things in Malaysia - those with money bully their way around those without money (just driving around in KL and one would agree with me).

Why I say this because I actually wrote about some people I know/met who has bought the various FE racks but then I re-read and it looked as if I am implying that FE racks are selling like hot-cakes (which it IS NOT, a LOT of work went into each sale because they are really very expensive). FE racks needs a very knowledgeable person to properly configure and set-up and even then, it needs a lot of experimentation and experience to exploit their effectiveness to the fullest. The person needs to be a hifi and MUSIC LOVER first and foremost because the amount of time needed to learn how to set them up really demands passion and dedication. So I deleted what I wrote because I fear it would make it look (wrongly) as if FE are selling well and that might spread unfounded rumours and result in yet another big bully stealing the agency/representation away from an honest hifi shop. There are already not enough good hifi dealers around already. I dread the day when all the good brands are carried by shops with plenty of momey but no customer service. Everything is just another sale.

how does maggie 1.7 compare with eminent tech lft-8 mk II?

thanks.
wps

Hi wong,

one of these must start yam cha with you.

I have a pair of ordinary speakers which I felt is a limiting factor. With the magical maggie 1.7 sales, it really is some piece of equipment not to be missed.

However I may not get use to transparent, extended high, width and depth that is not found in the box speakers. I am afraid the mouth of Damien rice that is 3in wide on box speaker may sound 6in wide in quasi. do you come across anyone put off by these?

to drive maggies, ANY maggies ... it had better have lots of JUICE.
with reference to "Huge American Amps" here.

If the singer ends up being sounding too wide, this is one of the tell-tale signs that the Amp is NOT up to mark in terms of power delivery. Loss of accuracy & imaging focus.

chua, perhaps in the upcoming H4S get-together we can do that yamcha and chat a bit about my short listening experience with the Maggie 1.7. Just have to wait a while for the admin to recover from over-exertion so that he can find the time and energy to set it up.