Power cords and its use
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Power cords and its use
Hi all,
can we share the experience of power cords in the hifi gears.
do you prefer to use certain power cords for small power such as transport, dac, or preamp while other power cords for amps and just 1 type fit all.
For me, differnt power cord on my transport does make a big difference. e.g. using wire world entry level to mid level changes the sound by a lot.
what is your view
can we share the experience of power cords in the hifi gears.
do you prefer to use certain power cords for small power such as transport, dac, or preamp while other power cords for amps and just 1 type fit all.
For me, differnt power cord on my transport does make a big difference. e.g. using wire world entry level to mid level changes the sound by a lot.
what is your view
chua55- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
You, know, this has always been one aspect of hifi that thus far, the benefits of, escapes me.
I have tried a few decent priced power cords, and my poor old ears fail to pick up any discernible difference. I am pretty sure this is just limited to me and my own failings, as many have reported much improvement or the opposite depending on which power cord is used where.
I finally end up making my own, using the nice thick 'ORANGE' colored power cable you can get from ACE hardware. Works for me.
That's my honest experience. Thanks for opening up this thread... perhaps the info posted here could learn me how to appreciate, and what sound changes to expect using a decent power cable.
Thanks again, and have the most excellent of weekends!!
Bal.
I have tried a few decent priced power cords, and my poor old ears fail to pick up any discernible difference. I am pretty sure this is just limited to me and my own failings, as many have reported much improvement or the opposite depending on which power cord is used where.
I finally end up making my own, using the nice thick 'ORANGE' colored power cable you can get from ACE hardware. Works for me.
That's my honest experience. Thanks for opening up this thread... perhaps the info posted here could learn me how to appreciate, and what sound changes to expect using a decent power cable.
Thanks again, and have the most excellent of weekends!!
Bal.
bal- Moderator
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Re: Power cords and its use
Have upgraded from the standard power cords to the ACE Power cord with MK plugs. ( hospital grade ) No regrets.
cheers
cheers
wingman- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
For those who are not able to discern the changes brought about by after market power chord, at the RMAF 2010 show,Nordost annoounced plan to make available, within a year's time, a system-tuning software that you can plug into your system that can measure and validate the positive effects of after market cabling, supports, and power products.
At least if you can't hear it, you can see it!
The full article is available here.
At least if you can't hear it, you can see it!
The full article is available here.
tycham- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
Good article !
tycham wrote:
At least if you can't hear it, you can see it!
The full article is available here.
mugenfoo- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
there is so called skin effects in high freq application. it is a like train travelling on a track instead of the usual water in a pipe of analogy. theory aside, it is best to listen to it. The so called ribbon or even multiple diamiter cables (as in Audioquest) are eg.
as for me, by putting a power cord even at the cd transport, already present differences that is very obvious. Recently been toying with wireworld power cord, it seems to be quite good value for money. its entry level to reference can cost a bomb in the pocket.
as for me, by putting a power cord even at the cd transport, already present differences that is very obvious. Recently been toying with wireworld power cord, it seems to be quite good value for money. its entry level to reference can cost a bomb in the pocket.
chua55- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
the differences are audible between poorly made cable and a "good" cable, beyond this point - just gets frenzy, the difference between a quadionic-t6 braided rm 100k and just a good cable is minimal - the differences are not huge BUT - every cable carries its own signature - i've always asked the manufacturers of my gear about the power cords they recommend - most do give out budget to mid-priced names - but some just dont believe in them:)
Stock Power Cable : One that ships with your rig
Good Power Cable : DH Labs, Black Rhodium,QED,Supra (just to name a few)
If you just want to test the waters, since for some even the prices of good power cables are beyond their budget, you may try certain models of VOLEX or BELDEN.
In another thread - there had been some intense discussions on the "cable loom" theory, most recording engineers (guys that produce your audiophile discs) would be able to agree on this and so do i, since i am one:)
But that said - the differences are insignificant in medium to decent priced/built
consumer decks.
To reiterate, music is the greatest accessory to itself - focus ON the music more.
Stock Power Cable : One that ships with your rig
Good Power Cable : DH Labs, Black Rhodium,QED,Supra (just to name a few)
If you just want to test the waters, since for some even the prices of good power cables are beyond their budget, you may try certain models of VOLEX or BELDEN.
In another thread - there had been some intense discussions on the "cable loom" theory, most recording engineers (guys that produce your audiophile discs) would be able to agree on this and so do i, since i am one:)
But that said - the differences are insignificant in medium to decent priced/built
consumer decks.
To reiterate, music is the greatest accessory to itself - focus ON the music more.
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
the test as done by Nordost & Vertex is breaking new ground (although nothing earth-shattering or mind boggling). They are not using simple and purely freq domain response test that so many others in the industry & the hobby are guilty of. ( ie, flat response graph,so must be good. all cables measure the same ruler-flat response, so any and all cables should just sound the same, etc... )
Instead, a time-domain pulse test is one step closer in revealing the system's (cables included) ability to faithfully reproduce all the transients and expressions in music.
Instead, a time-domain pulse test is one step closer in revealing the system's (cables included) ability to faithfully reproduce all the transients and expressions in music.
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Re: Power cords and its use
thegoodarcher wrote:To reiterate, music is the greatest accessory to itself - focus ON the music more.
Agree, but an exceptional playback system goes a long way in helping us humans "enjoy/appreciate" the music more right ?
Otherwise everyone should just be satisfied with their dinghy little iPods, available in pink, blue, green, silver, orange and graphite colours!
mugenfoo- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
I started with the volex believing my RM 40 cable can beat the RM 250 Supra. As my gears move up the chain, and comparing the 'Volex' vs other power cords, it is just not left behind.
so as the gears move up the chain, are you still using the RM 50 volex or the RM 250 supra or even more ?
I have a pcocc power cord and its amazing value is worth a listen. However I notice OCC cable has some weaknesses as compared to custom made cables.
so as the gears move up the chain, are you still using the RM 50 volex or the RM 250 supra or even more ?
I have a pcocc power cord and its amazing value is worth a listen. However I notice OCC cable has some weaknesses as compared to custom made cables.
chua55- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piPI_ByD0Q0
any one uses this on their powercord?
where do you guys find mk toughplug hospital grade?
any one uses this on their powercord?
where do you guys find mk toughplug hospital grade?
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Re: Power cords and its use
mugenfoo, to enjoy/appreciate music to its zenith, one needs the knowledge of musicianship, which arises from knowing how to play and an instrument - anything less than this - one just falls short, its a pathless path, period.
Those who are on the move frequently, rarely have a choice, but to have an ipod.music is an exclusive entity in an infinite energy field, without music -
all the silver cords,power cords,transports and tube amp - has no value!
diyz - Farnell, RS Malaysia..just google it..you can try MK Duraplug (which comes with silver plated fuse via Farnell) - its almost the same thing.
"One who is able; plays, he who falls short, teaches , sad are the ones who are denied both, they listen" - Django Reinhardt
I guess its okay to be denied, as long as you know it:)))
Those who are on the move frequently, rarely have a choice, but to have an ipod.music is an exclusive entity in an infinite energy field, without music -
all the silver cords,power cords,transports and tube amp - has no value!
diyz - Farnell, RS Malaysia..just google it..you can try MK Duraplug (which comes with silver plated fuse via Farnell) - its almost the same thing.
"One who is able; plays, he who falls short, teaches , sad are the ones who are denied both, they listen" - Django Reinhardt
I guess its okay to be denied, as long as you know it:)))
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
mugenfoo wrote:thegoodarcher wrote:To reiterate, music is the greatest accessory to itself - focus ON the music more.
Agree, but an exceptional playback system goes a long way in helping us humans "enjoy/appreciate" the music more right ?
Otherwise everyone should just be satisfied with their dinghy little iPods, available in pink, blue, green, silver, orange and graphite colours!
Just like equipment, the fact is that different people enjoys music differently and have different preferences and expectations/demands from their music.
The oft-made arguement to focus on the music is a good one but is one that must not be overdone. While it is true that a good tune can be enjoyable even on a little transistor radio, many people have great demands on the music they listen to and many of them, audiophiles, musicians, plain music lovers, and yes, even audio engineers, do find they enjoy the music more when it is played on a high resolution/high-end system.
How many of us can relate to incidents where we feel uneasy or unable to relax in front of a certain system. If a system sounds bright and harsh to our ears, no matter how good the tune is, we will not enjoy it as much as when it is played on a system that sounds good and appealing to our ears. I have told the story of this incident where I was asked by an ex-colleague to accompany him and his wife to audition the latest Thiel CS5. And how my ex-colleague's wife told him she forbids him taking the speaker home because she feels so agitated when she listened to the speaker, she felt like finding someone to slap ! And the dealer was playing her favourite songs (with an 's', meaning he played several of her favourite songs) in that audition. And so you say, focus on the music. HOW ? When all your feel is such irritation that you want to slap someone ?
WongKN- Moderator
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Re: Power cords and its use
thegoodarcher wrote:mugenfoo, to enjoy/appreciate music to its zenith, one needs the knowledge of musicianship, which arises from knowing how to play and an instrument - anything less than this - one just falls short, its a pathless path, period.
So for those people who do NOT play any musical instrument, means its a "pathless path" for them to enjoy anything musical related to its zenith?
And what degree of musical playing ability are we talking here ? If not mistaken, one of our dear moderator here plays the violin, but perhaps not quite to the level where he can quit his day job and start giving performances at Carnegie hall.
How many Michelin Stars do you need in order to appreciate exquisite dining?
Do you need to own a vineyard in order to enjoy the most exorbitant bottle of Chateau Lafitte?
Then perhaps along your same lines, in order to appreciate hi-fi to its zenith, one should be well versed in the science and technology of electronics, wave-particle physics , acoustic wave theory & engineering physics, etc etc . Anything less, it would be a "pathless path". Would you hold yourself to the same position here ?
Heck, i can be darn critical of just about anything ... but i won't go so far as to label what people do for their own recreation & enjoyment (and affordability) as a "pathless path"....
mugenfoo- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
The power cord works like conditioner too. In a way, the filtering is done to give a sense of 'quietness' and thus more detail from the musics. some power cord can tone the vocal to give more refinement while others can make the music to seem more dynamic. so many type of power cord with differnt character. I wish there is a survey that list down the different char of power cord like the tubes division.
chua55- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
WongKN wrote: I have told the story of this incident where I was asked by an ex-colleague to accompany him and his wife to audition the latest Thiel CS5. And how my ex-colleague's wife told him she forbids him taking the speaker home because she feels so agitated when she listened to the speaker, she felt like finding someone to slap !
Was it the CS5 , or the latest CS3.7 that sounded super irritating ??
mugenfoo- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
Well said mugen!
And may I add, by the same token, that we need to have the instruments and ability to analyse the composition of the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the food we eat, to live life to its zenith, else it would be a "pathless path"
And may I add, by the same token, that we need to have the instruments and ability to analyse the composition of the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the food we eat, to live life to its zenith, else it would be a "pathless path"
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Re: Power cords and its use
To me its simple. Technically, different quality of material used in different power cords provides different quality. Again, technically. However, can u hear the different? Very subjective.
I have been using stock cable for my set up for 12 years simply because of such debates as this. But in 2009, a hifi shop dealer suggest me to try QED Qonduit for my rega apollo CDP with the notion I can return it if I dont like it. I agreed and he gave me a pro-burnt in unit.
Hook up to rega and had a listen for 1 hr. Went back to the shop immediately and............
....purchased another 3 for my integrated amp and pair of monoblocks simply because I like what it did to my CDP. Hehehehe.
So there u go, no technical discussion, didnt really purchased a high end power cord. It was purely decision made by my ear.
Point is, even if you can hear improvement by putting blu tack under your speakers, then do it. No right and wrong (to a certain extend).
Oh, and i am a drummer, guitarist and plays the bag pipes too. So I guess I am a man with a 'path'
I have been using stock cable for my set up for 12 years simply because of such debates as this. But in 2009, a hifi shop dealer suggest me to try QED Qonduit for my rega apollo CDP with the notion I can return it if I dont like it. I agreed and he gave me a pro-burnt in unit.
Hook up to rega and had a listen for 1 hr. Went back to the shop immediately and............
....purchased another 3 for my integrated amp and pair of monoblocks simply because I like what it did to my CDP. Hehehehe.
So there u go, no technical discussion, didnt really purchased a high end power cord. It was purely decision made by my ear.
Point is, even if you can hear improvement by putting blu tack under your speakers, then do it. No right and wrong (to a certain extend).
Oh, and i am a drummer, guitarist and plays the bag pipes too. So I guess I am a man with a 'path'
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Re: Power cords and its use
Bro Mugenfoo,
"that which rests on something which is far greater then what it is, is the souce, and will it always be superior to any forces which are exterior form it" - Callas
Audio gears are meant to reproduce music, a big full stop - since music is a very subjective matter and so is sound and hearing, and so is one's own opinion.
Bright? how do you know? what do you pitch it against? your own thought of brightness? or do you know know if the violin or harpsichord you listen to is deliberately tuned to certain key, which is meant to extrude what the composer/performer hears in his head? - pretty subjective right?
Learning to play an instrument teaches you music appreciation, a carnegie hall recital is deemed unnecessary.
My point is - if one searches for the ultimate experience in listening to music,
one need knowledge first, the tools are secondary, which are only meant to enhances the experience.
It applies to many thing life, a person who has played football knows the nuances of such a feeling when he watches a certain technique or operandi performed by a skilled sportsmen, something which you wont garner if you have been watching football for donkey years and haven't kicked a ball.
Most audiophilics focus so much on the gear, and so less on what its meant for - that was just my point, not to rub you the wrong way.Knowledge in music
introduces understanding and produces brilliance in perception.
If you friend's wife feels she is being irritated by certain sounding gear - the opinion is hers alone.For all that you know, a lot of people on a lot of different demographics own that pair of speakers, and probably happy with it.
the air you breath, the water you drink is all meant to sustain "LIFE", if you pour the purest of water or the the cleanest of air into a dead man's nose and mouth,
there is probably no use, because there is just no more life.
Tycham comparing vital sustaining factors of human survival to instruments?
i admire your uncompounded logic which has nothing to do with this topic or its message which is being discussed here.
Elhefe, indeed ur a man with a path:)
Good solid gears and interconnects are important - but not as important as the music itself - my point here is simple.
"that which rests on something which is far greater then what it is, is the souce, and will it always be superior to any forces which are exterior form it" - Callas
Audio gears are meant to reproduce music, a big full stop - since music is a very subjective matter and so is sound and hearing, and so is one's own opinion.
Bright? how do you know? what do you pitch it against? your own thought of brightness? or do you know know if the violin or harpsichord you listen to is deliberately tuned to certain key, which is meant to extrude what the composer/performer hears in his head? - pretty subjective right?
Learning to play an instrument teaches you music appreciation, a carnegie hall recital is deemed unnecessary.
My point is - if one searches for the ultimate experience in listening to music,
one need knowledge first, the tools are secondary, which are only meant to enhances the experience.
It applies to many thing life, a person who has played football knows the nuances of such a feeling when he watches a certain technique or operandi performed by a skilled sportsmen, something which you wont garner if you have been watching football for donkey years and haven't kicked a ball.
Most audiophilics focus so much on the gear, and so less on what its meant for - that was just my point, not to rub you the wrong way.Knowledge in music
introduces understanding and produces brilliance in perception.
If you friend's wife feels she is being irritated by certain sounding gear - the opinion is hers alone.For all that you know, a lot of people on a lot of different demographics own that pair of speakers, and probably happy with it.
the air you breath, the water you drink is all meant to sustain "LIFE", if you pour the purest of water or the the cleanest of air into a dead man's nose and mouth,
there is probably no use, because there is just no more life.
Tycham comparing vital sustaining factors of human survival to instruments?
i admire your uncompounded logic which has nothing to do with this topic or its message which is being discussed here.
Elhefe, indeed ur a man with a path:)
Good solid gears and interconnects are important - but not as important as the music itself - my point here is simple.
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
archer, i like your style with "wise quotes". Just remember that even the perception of a source , in itself is no ultimate reference in itself. Based on your anecdotal points, i would sincerely beg to differ that there are many a people out there who while play musical instruments to great accomplishments, but actually have a completely rotten ear for the art and science of music reproduction.
case in point:
But since these are just opinions, no point pitting one against the other.
You are welcome to follow your own path. But do spare some of us the self-righteousness in calling other paths which may not co-incide with your own as being "pathless".
Oh, and don't worry. No one here is diminishing the importance of hifi equipment over the music itself. Of course, if without music, any hifi equipment would not be doing its job in its intended role. Just that one need not be a cook to criticise the cooking.
But then again... there are those who just want that gargantuan speakers in their living room, that massive shiny monoblock amp sitting there looking pretty... and doing absolutely nothing else. Maybe only being powered on once every 6 months ? Who are we to label their owners as being on a "pathless path" or whatever ?
Heck, if anyone can afford and is willing to park 5 Ferraris of different colours and just use them as Garden Deco in front of their estate home (or HDB flat or town-council flat for that matter), and that makes them happy. Go for it man !
Suum Cuique. -(i dunno which famous dude came up with this one )
Cheers !
case in point:
This is super duper highly subjective. Plenty of musicians out there who work their instruments beautifully, but when it comes to having an ear for hi-fi..... leaves alot wanting.thegoodarcher wrote:Knowledge in music introduces understanding and produces brilliance in perception.
But really, is there any true "ultimate experience" ? And who's "ultimate experience" is it ? Yours ? Good for you! ... But doubt if its the same as mine...thegoodarcher wrote:
My point is - if one searches for the ultimate experience in listening to music,
one need knowledge first, the tools are secondary, which are only meant to enhances the experience.
But since these are just opinions, no point pitting one against the other.
You are welcome to follow your own path. But do spare some of us the self-righteousness in calling other paths which may not co-incide with your own as being "pathless".
Oh, and don't worry. No one here is diminishing the importance of hifi equipment over the music itself. Of course, if without music, any hifi equipment would not be doing its job in its intended role. Just that one need not be a cook to criticise the cooking.
But then again... there are those who just want that gargantuan speakers in their living room, that massive shiny monoblock amp sitting there looking pretty... and doing absolutely nothing else. Maybe only being powered on once every 6 months ? Who are we to label their owners as being on a "pathless path" or whatever ?
Heck, if anyone can afford and is willing to park 5 Ferraris of different colours and just use them as Garden Deco in front of their estate home (or HDB flat or town-council flat for that matter), and that makes them happy. Go for it man !
Suum Cuique. -(i dunno which famous dude came up with this one )
Cheers !
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Re: Power cords and its use
Only musicians can truly appreciate music huh? Oh puhleese!!! Enough of that psuedo Deepak Chopra mumbo jumbo. I know some musicians so caught up in technique and execution, they've totally forgotten how to enjoy music.
Well said Mugenfoo!
Well said Mugenfoo!
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Re: Power cords and its use
then park your ferraris - and claim it as art, after all some art has no other purpose then to to be art itself, just like fiction. - no musician could possibly have a rotten ear, not the best ear maybe , but certainly not rotten again. the ability to play what you hear, takes a paradigm shift in interpreting patterns into something which is beautiful - i didn't say only musicians can appreciate music - i just said - if you are in for a truthful experience of music - one needs atleast try to understand the fundamentals of how the language of music is actually built upon, coaxed and exhibited, not just bitch on rigs.
if you just blown your fortune, and want to re-validating reason, then you are free to establish your fiction, its your world - yup bimmerman, you need to be alive first to enjoy all things material, and living starts when you enjoy what you have..
Enjoy your long walk on the pathless path - just make sure end up somewhere.
if you just blown your fortune, and want to re-validating reason, then you are free to establish your fiction, its your world - yup bimmerman, you need to be alive first to enjoy all things material, and living starts when you enjoy what you have..
Enjoy your long walk on the pathless path - just make sure end up somewhere.
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
Here, meet my friend Dave; he's been playing one too many gigs next to huge Peaveys and Marshalls right next to his face....
Awesome wailer on the Electric guitar though.
But alas, from the last audiogram done at the local clinic, the graphs show a massive deficit in the 7KHz and above region already. Abit more on the left ear than the right by around 7dB. I'd say it's pretty darn rotten already.
Doc prescribed him a dose of methycobal & Neurobion supplements... but so far, the graphs still plot the same.
Awesome wailer on the Electric guitar though.
But alas, from the last audiogram done at the local clinic, the graphs show a massive deficit in the 7KHz and above region already. Abit more on the left ear than the right by around 7dB. I'd say it's pretty darn rotten already.
Doc prescribed him a dose of methycobal & Neurobion supplements... but so far, the graphs still plot the same.
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Re: Power cords and its use
hearing loss in anyone is common - marshalls and peaveys? no wonder.also found on guys who rev their engines out 2nd hand ferraris, meet my friend Mr.Chang - straight to hearing aid, i think its the audiophile type of hearing aid with induction free sub-coil (silver plated).
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
This thread seems to be shifting off top. Nevertheless, a humorous read....
dheensay- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
Humorous and fascinating! If the archer dude wrote a book, I'd be first in line to buy it. Move over Deepak Chopra, there's a new guru in town.
bimmerman- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
I pity chua55 though. His question is a valid one and even though its not a new topic, I think some of the postings are way off topic.
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Re: Power cords and its use
Thegoodarcher,
your post is way not on topic and for sure not entertaining. So pls stop n get on track pls.
Cheers,
your post is way not on topic and for sure not entertaining. So pls stop n get on track pls.
Cheers,
noodle88- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
where can i purchase Belden power cables ? Pasar Road ?
thank you....
cheers
thank you....
cheers
wingman- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
I think chua55 may have some gud power to offer.
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Re: Power cords and its use
noodle88 - it if its in relation to music which co-relates to sound - i am within lines,
we were discussing the role of the power cord in one's rig and the differences it made on listening experience which directly rest on one's ability to understand what they are listening to, i am not the one who brought ferraris and white elephants into the thread, my post are not for your pleasure alone surely is not written to entertain you - lets get on track you lead the way..
Bimmerman, sorry if i sounded a bit off - just trying to get my point across.
Wingman, i am not really sure about pasar road - but i've bought them before from Farnell Malaysia
we were discussing the role of the power cord in one's rig and the differences it made on listening experience which directly rest on one's ability to understand what they are listening to, i am not the one who brought ferraris and white elephants into the thread, my post are not for your pleasure alone surely is not written to entertain you - lets get on track you lead the way..
Bimmerman, sorry if i sounded a bit off - just trying to get my point across.
Wingman, i am not really sure about pasar road - but i've bought them before from Farnell Malaysia
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
Archer.....
Thanks and whats ur view on this cable ? Are they still part of your Hifi / AV setup ?
Currently on ACE Power cables ( CD / AMP / Tube Buffer and Tuner ), quite a difference in "SQ" compared to the standard power cables which came with the gear. Gives me more clarity overall, especially on playing instrumental music.
cheers
Thanks and whats ur view on this cable ? Are they still part of your Hifi / AV setup ?
Currently on ACE Power cables ( CD / AMP / Tube Buffer and Tuner ), quite a difference in "SQ" compared to the standard power cables which came with the gear. Gives me more clarity overall, especially on playing instrumental music.
cheers
wingman- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
Wingman - i used belden for many years for my accuphase rig, i was happy with it,
as it was initially recommended by the manufacturer, the sound was stout but clean and matched well with my rig - by the way what do you intent to use the beldens with? i cant really recall the exact series but with my current set up all cables are from DH Labs.
let me see if i can find that out for you.
as it was initially recommended by the manufacturer, the sound was stout but clean and matched well with my rig - by the way what do you intent to use the beldens with? i cant really recall the exact series but with my current set up all cables are from DH Labs.
let me see if i can find that out for you.
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
Thegoodarcher, I have one word of advice to you. You seem to be shifting your positions in your posts. First you post that quotes a saying that effectively insults a lot of music lovers suggesting that only musicians are 'higher creatures'. Then you wrote that those who don't know music are going on a 'pathless path'. Then when confronted, you turn around and say you just mean to say if one knows a bit about music, theory or practice, it gives him/her better appreciation into the music. I believe perhaps this is what you meant to say all along. But be aware your first few posts are quite inflammatory to many honest down to earth music lovers.
For me personally, what you say is not wrong. But what you imply, to me I consider wrong. My music teacher taught me that music is universal and the love of music and theappreciation of it is an inherent gift that god or nature, depending on your beliefs and religion, has gifted to mankind. There is no 'higher' method of appreciating music. Everyone is equal.
You are encouraging some very good and intelligent discussions here and I certainly welcome you for that. But if you find yourself being 'attacked' by many forumers, then perhaps you might want to consider these words of mine. Of course, my personal opinion only, its up to you to accept them as friendly advice from the moderator, or reject them as worthless observations.
For me personally, what you say is not wrong. But what you imply, to me I consider wrong. My music teacher taught me that music is universal and the love of music and theappreciation of it is an inherent gift that god or nature, depending on your beliefs and religion, has gifted to mankind. There is no 'higher' method of appreciating music. Everyone is equal.
You are encouraging some very good and intelligent discussions here and I certainly welcome you for that. But if you find yourself being 'attacked' by many forumers, then perhaps you might want to consider these words of mine. Of course, my personal opinion only, its up to you to accept them as friendly advice from the moderator, or reject them as worthless observations.
WongKN- Moderator
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Re: Power cords and its use
someone dealer relate this to me that once someone bought a power cord worth many grand and was very happy with it until this cable is better by some cheaper cable. out of frusration, he cut open and found beXXen in it. Seem ridiculous but that is just a hearsay.
I spend the time yesterday trying to arrange my power cords in the order, expensive one on the source and downwards and the other way i.e. expensive one on the amp and less expensive upstream. I did so due to limited budget and to find out its effect. Well the result confuse me. Before I say it, has anyone tried it ?
I spend the time yesterday trying to arrange my power cords in the order, expensive one on the source and downwards and the other way i.e. expensive one on the amp and less expensive upstream. I did so due to limited budget and to find out its effect. Well the result confuse me. Before I say it, has anyone tried it ?
chua55- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
Dear WongKN,
Thanks for your advice - the path in music is a one that grows, as one's interest/ knowledge grows, your listening grows, and sooner your hearing method changes,
if you re-read the post, i frequently re-used the "zenith" meaning, an experience above the experience itself - and i've been taking a stand defending that learning to play an instrument gives you more edge in understand the finer nuances of the music you hear - that being said, i understand the real world situation today, and hope that those reading the post have enough maturity to understand the evolution of the post, while its true that musicianship offers proper growth in taste - its impossible for some to drop everything and go for lessons due to reasons known to them, i respect that, and the post shows that and it also shows whats there, if you are willing to take it, should you allow yourself to grow into this art form, what actually ticked me off (re-read my response) was a line,
"everyone else will be satisfied with their multi-coloured ipods" (everyone is equal - you say?) - i was trying to equate that - everyone is equal to each his own - and no one is inferior or superior, if one feels one is superior due the fact that they own a super-expensive gear,second to none - i challenge that convention, because learning music, actually shows you a basic fact of music - which is "infinity" - where nothing undermines anything on something which will probably not end in my or your lifetime.
I accept your wonderful gesture and the mark of respect in your lines - as far as for being attacked, its their choice - my choice, is to explain myself in detail - so that anyone interested on this website and music; gains knowledge and derive their own wisdom from what is being discussed
Thanks for your advice - the path in music is a one that grows, as one's interest/ knowledge grows, your listening grows, and sooner your hearing method changes,
if you re-read the post, i frequently re-used the "zenith" meaning, an experience above the experience itself - and i've been taking a stand defending that learning to play an instrument gives you more edge in understand the finer nuances of the music you hear - that being said, i understand the real world situation today, and hope that those reading the post have enough maturity to understand the evolution of the post, while its true that musicianship offers proper growth in taste - its impossible for some to drop everything and go for lessons due to reasons known to them, i respect that, and the post shows that and it also shows whats there, if you are willing to take it, should you allow yourself to grow into this art form, what actually ticked me off (re-read my response) was a line,
"everyone else will be satisfied with their multi-coloured ipods" (everyone is equal - you say?) - i was trying to equate that - everyone is equal to each his own - and no one is inferior or superior, if one feels one is superior due the fact that they own a super-expensive gear,second to none - i challenge that convention, because learning music, actually shows you a basic fact of music - which is "infinity" - where nothing undermines anything on something which will probably not end in my or your lifetime.
I accept your wonderful gesture and the mark of respect in your lines - as far as for being attacked, its their choice - my choice, is to explain myself in detail - so that anyone interested on this website and music; gains knowledge and derive their own wisdom from what is being discussed
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
TGA, good explanation from you. One thing I agree fully with you is that the cost of one's system doesn't give the person any superiority over others. But on the same account, one must also be ready to accept that the more expensive system would be higher resolution and it will allow the music to flow better. This gives us better access to the music and how it is being played. We can hear, for e.g, the finer nuances of the singer's voice and how he or she controls it to deliver a song full of emotion. We can hear better the difference in technique between a Nigel Kennedy and Heifiez for e.g. This has been my experience at least.
On the topic of musicians and music appreciation, I myself would only say that knowning music or how to play an instrument will give a person a different insight into the music. In this case, I emphasized different and I want to make it clear that different doesn't mean better, or superior.
For myself, I am of the opinion that the most important thing about music is whether we enjoy it or not. That is my personal approach to music. So from this angle, knowing how to play a particular musical instrument can sometimes be a double-edged sword. I.e. it cuts both ways. For e.g. in the early years of the M.P.O., I attended a concert of Concerto De-Aranjuez, played by a professional but not very famous guitarist from Europe. I love Concerto De Aranjuez and I actually know the whole piece by heart. But during the concert, I was dissapointed to hear numerous mistakes made by the guitarist. He missed several notes and in one case, he actually missed a fret completely and consequently plucked the same note on an open string. In the more complex passages, he fumbled and could not maintain the proper timing and had to slow down considerably to be able to play the passage. I did enjoy the concert but it was marred by hearing all those mistakes.
A friend of mine, also a music lover and audiophile, attended the same concert. We didn't sit together but we met after the concert. He too likes Concerto De Aranjuez, calling it 'the Orange Juice concert'. And he enjoyed the concert totally. I asked him and he told me he could not hear any mistakes. "The guy played flawlessly as far as I could hear".
So if we look at it from the viewpoint of enjoyment of the concert/music, which to me at least, is the only measurement which matters, my friend enjoyed it more than me. My knowledge of the classical guitar, in that particular instance, was a hinderance rather than an advantage.
So my experience have always been that sometimes knowledge can really be a curse. Knowing music or how to play an instrurment does not guarantee that one will enjoy the music better, or more. As the saying goes, sometimes, just sometimes, ignorance can really be bliss.
I thank everyone here for being very courteous and civilized in this thread. I look forward to every thread being like this, even if there are disagreements.
On the topic of musicians and music appreciation, I myself would only say that knowning music or how to play an instrument will give a person a different insight into the music. In this case, I emphasized different and I want to make it clear that different doesn't mean better, or superior.
For myself, I am of the opinion that the most important thing about music is whether we enjoy it or not. That is my personal approach to music. So from this angle, knowing how to play a particular musical instrument can sometimes be a double-edged sword. I.e. it cuts both ways. For e.g. in the early years of the M.P.O., I attended a concert of Concerto De-Aranjuez, played by a professional but not very famous guitarist from Europe. I love Concerto De Aranjuez and I actually know the whole piece by heart. But during the concert, I was dissapointed to hear numerous mistakes made by the guitarist. He missed several notes and in one case, he actually missed a fret completely and consequently plucked the same note on an open string. In the more complex passages, he fumbled and could not maintain the proper timing and had to slow down considerably to be able to play the passage. I did enjoy the concert but it was marred by hearing all those mistakes.
A friend of mine, also a music lover and audiophile, attended the same concert. We didn't sit together but we met after the concert. He too likes Concerto De Aranjuez, calling it 'the Orange Juice concert'. And he enjoyed the concert totally. I asked him and he told me he could not hear any mistakes. "The guy played flawlessly as far as I could hear".
So if we look at it from the viewpoint of enjoyment of the concert/music, which to me at least, is the only measurement which matters, my friend enjoyed it more than me. My knowledge of the classical guitar, in that particular instance, was a hinderance rather than an advantage.
So my experience have always been that sometimes knowledge can really be a curse. Knowing music or how to play an instrurment does not guarantee that one will enjoy the music better, or more. As the saying goes, sometimes, just sometimes, ignorance can really be bliss.
I thank everyone here for being very courteous and civilized in this thread. I look forward to every thread being like this, even if there are disagreements.
WongKN- Moderator
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Re: Power cords and its use
i went to a Paula Abdul concert once (while she was still "famous & popular"). Having being sold cheap faraway tickets, i could not tell jack crap if she was really singing, or just lip syncing all the whole concert through. But heck, it was still a blast !
Recently went to Black Eyed Peas concert at Sunway Lagoon park. Too Much Echo bouncing around. Makes everything sound like a double/triple delayed effect. Damn irritating. However talented they are, it was so totally not-enjoyable due to the awful reflections from the theme park sections.
Mental note to self: In Future, AVOID ALL CONCERTS at this place.
Doubt if there's any power cord that could fix Sunway Lagoon as a concert venue by a longshot here.
Recently went to Black Eyed Peas concert at Sunway Lagoon park. Too Much Echo bouncing around. Makes everything sound like a double/triple delayed effect. Damn irritating. However talented they are, it was so totally not-enjoyable due to the awful reflections from the theme park sections.
Mental note to self: In Future, AVOID ALL CONCERTS at this place.
Doubt if there's any power cord that could fix Sunway Lagoon as a concert venue by a longshot here.
mugenfoo- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
mugenfoo wrote:
Doubt if there's any power cord that could fix Sunway Lagoon as a concert venue by a longshot here.
We better start another thread on acoustic design and engineering then hehehhe
elhefe- Moderator
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Re: Power cords and its use
Let me quote my statement earlier.
I notice with the 'better cable' at the source and normal cable at the amp, I found this give me better sound. The music just open up and sound better. I try relate this by assumption (which I have no idea of) that the better cable is able to 'condition' the signal at the source and gives a cleaner and better to the amp for amplification rather than the other way round. I may be wrong, and hope someone can correct me.
expensive one on the source and downwards and the other way i.e. expensive one on the amp and less expensive upstream
I notice with the 'better cable' at the source and normal cable at the amp, I found this give me better sound. The music just open up and sound better. I try relate this by assumption (which I have no idea of) that the better cable is able to 'condition' the signal at the source and gives a cleaner and better to the amp for amplification rather than the other way round. I may be wrong, and hope someone can correct me.
chua55- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
I once had a pair of McIntosh pre-power amps and was trying out various power cords for them. I finally decided, after weeks of testing, that the standard power cords provided with the amps- the Schuko, 2-pin European type - sounded like the best match! My technically-inclined friend explained this was because the cords' grounding was not connected, which he considered not safe - thus, i was hearing a more forward and lively presentation, but with more noise. Just sharing ...
Mugen: Paula Abdul? Really?
Mugen: Paula Abdul? Really?
Re: Power cords and its use
Archer....
Answer to your question....to try the difference ( effects on SQ ) between "ACE" and the "Belden" power cables. Something similar to Chua's experimentation.
My understanding....
The ability of the power cords to influence the "SQ" will level off on the type of hifi gear ( segment - low to high end gears) its being paired along. Components in the internals of an equipment will also influence the power cables capabilities. ( ex 2 inch pipe [being the power cables] to a 0.5 inch outlet concept [being the components] )
Have a good week ahead to all.
cheers
thegoodarcher wrote:Wingman - by the way what do you intent to use the beldens with?
Answer to your question....to try the difference ( effects on SQ ) between "ACE" and the "Belden" power cables. Something similar to Chua's experimentation.
My understanding....
The ability of the power cords to influence the "SQ" will level off on the type of hifi gear ( segment - low to high end gears) its being paired along. Components in the internals of an equipment will also influence the power cables capabilities. ( ex 2 inch pipe [being the power cables] to a 0.5 inch outlet concept [being the components] )
Have a good week ahead to all.
cheers
wingman- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
Bassrapper, Really !
mugenfoo- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
I heard that mugenfoo's current favourite artist is susan boyle
WongKN- Moderator
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Re: Power cords and its use
WongKN - you are on the dot, here.I agree whole-heartedly on your pointers, knowledge is a two edged sword, and ignorance is bliss most of the time, but the ability to handle pain, comes with the capacity to handle truth, not to get too philosophical:) but some young lads spend their hard earned cash on upgrades after garnening advise from some who is equally
blind - usually traced back to a dealer, whos sole job is to operate a business.
Wingman - when a firm developes its product and conducts testing to acheive its vision for its venture in between and within this process they usually test potential components which bridges their vision and what is the end product - for this reason, i've always trusted the owner of brands (not local dealers, who probably distribute other brands too inclusive of boutique cords targeting tandem sales) but i am no implying that all dealers are rogue - Belden and Volex are in the business of making power cords for multinational corporations and national installations, with this comes great testing capabilities in diverse areas including entertainment, the key is to identify the model numbers usually those cut out of medical equipment especially if you are running them into tubes, there is a particular 1.mm Volex Orange Series (Hospital Grade) i've been using on my source - what a revelation! please give them a shot i remember paying only RM64.00 for it via Farnell (for 3M), only slightly inferior to my DH Labs Redwave (USD RM 1900 per met) and Nordost Vishnu (RM 2000 per met) on the source- but the Redwave, really packed a punch for my tube amp - almost unbelievable!
Beldens remain popular in Britain, whilst Volex has got a good following in the United States.
blind - usually traced back to a dealer, whos sole job is to operate a business.
Wingman - when a firm developes its product and conducts testing to acheive its vision for its venture in between and within this process they usually test potential components which bridges their vision and what is the end product - for this reason, i've always trusted the owner of brands (not local dealers, who probably distribute other brands too inclusive of boutique cords targeting tandem sales) but i am no implying that all dealers are rogue - Belden and Volex are in the business of making power cords for multinational corporations and national installations, with this comes great testing capabilities in diverse areas including entertainment, the key is to identify the model numbers usually those cut out of medical equipment especially if you are running them into tubes, there is a particular 1.mm Volex Orange Series (Hospital Grade) i've been using on my source - what a revelation! please give them a shot i remember paying only RM64.00 for it via Farnell (for 3M), only slightly inferior to my DH Labs Redwave (USD RM 1900 per met) and Nordost Vishnu (RM 2000 per met) on the source- but the Redwave, really packed a punch for my tube amp - almost unbelievable!
Beldens remain popular in Britain, whilst Volex has got a good following in the United States.
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
WongKN wrote:I heard that mugenfoo's current favourite artist is susan boyle
And WongKN is a fan of Fool's Garden.
I have proof.
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Re: Power cords and its use
Wingman - the Beldens have the model number (83803) + i used a nickel ferrite core with the cable under the mk plug (see below)
http://www.intermark-usa.com/products/EMC/Ferrite/TFC_TFCK_series.shtml
i had the ferrites attached about 10 cm from the MK plug - they were inexpensive.
http://www.intermark-usa.com/products/EMC/Ferrite/TFC_TFCK_series.shtml
i had the ferrites attached about 10 cm from the MK plug - they were inexpensive.
thegoodarcher- Club Member
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Re: Power cords and its use
mugenfoo wrote:WongKN wrote:I heard that mugenfoo's current favourite artist is susan boyle
And WongKN is a fan of Fool's Garden.
I have proof.
This I fully admit. But I couldn't find a non-disco mutiliated LP of Fool's Garden Lemon Tree yet. All the LPs available are those horrible boom-boom-boomy-boom-boom versions for DJ use at discos and clubs. Anyone knows of an original version LP anywhere ?
I will also fully admit to having LPs from Backstreet boys, Boyzone, and I am now looking at a Spice Girl LP. For my little niece to listen to when she comes to visit me when I am enjoying a session.
To me, one must never be embarassed about one's musical taste. Again as my music teacher taught me, there is no right or wrong in musical taste. There is no such thing as a 'musical truth'. There is simply just music, only music and nothing else !
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Re: Power cords and its use
Of double edged swords, ignorance and bliss, here's one that won't go down well with most; But for the sake of discussion, here goes: If power cords make no difference on your system then your system is not sensative enough to gain from the use of upgraded powercords.
I once believed that power cords did not make a difference and even speaker cables did not make a difference for short runs. Especially digital cables. Well, digital is digital right? Wrong! Ouch but true.
I've tried Furutech, Oyaide, Wireworld, Transparent and each cable brings about changes. Subtle and not at all subtle. So for those who don't hear a difference, what gives?
I once believed that power cords did not make a difference and even speaker cables did not make a difference for short runs. Especially digital cables. Well, digital is digital right? Wrong! Ouch but true.
I've tried Furutech, Oyaide, Wireworld, Transparent and each cable brings about changes. Subtle and not at all subtle. So for those who don't hear a difference, what gives?
bimmerman- Frequent Contributor
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Re: Power cords and its use
I have tried using RM 60 volex power cord, and others upto RM 1k on my cd transport and my friends transport. To qualify, the gears in test are quite sensitive to changes. (ahem, expensive lah)
so at the end, my friend immediatlly sold off his RM 500 power cord and opted for RM 1k power cord.
but the interesting part is why has power cord got to do with cd trasnport giving digital signals 0 and 1.
so at the end, my friend immediatlly sold off his RM 500 power cord and opted for RM 1k power cord.
but the interesting part is why has power cord got to do with cd trasnport giving digital signals 0 and 1.
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