Denon DL-103

It's only the second all new item to have entered my system since it was first put together 10 or so years ago. After a couple of months of web-crawling, review scouring, opinion seeking and copious amounts of head-scratching, a brand new Denon DL-103 cart came home with me today.

I mounted it myself, after receiving much tuition and pep-talk from the seller, not to mention his lending me a venerable pressure gauge and Rega alignment protractor, I was off and away. It took slightly over an hour, with only a screwdriver to aid things along.

First up to test things, out after numerous checks of alignment and loosening and re-tightening of the mounting screws, was Neil Young's Harvest on 180gm re-issue. Initial impression, it's BIG SOUND man... full-bodied, rich and musical, with a lusty bottom end to hold things together while driving things forward.

I know it's a long way till it's run-in, but I'm looking forward to that process as it means a fairly thorough re-discovery of my humble record collection.

hahaha! enjoying your Jappie lotsajinomoto laced cartie!..no wonder BIG BIGGG sound compared to former, big bootie bottom end too ya?...just poking sum fun here..congrats! nice choice!

The Planar 3 seems hell bent on playing Mile's Kind of Blue over and over again... one more spin of side 2 and I'm off to bed!!

Ajinomoto never sounded so good!

One note: the DL-103 seems better at low listening volumes than the previous cart, where did I put it after swapping it out... um, the Ortofon MC-1 Turbo...

Jedi...

After much soul searching.....finally....nice choice on a cart. Planar 3 is not a bad TT after all...souped up...gives you a different signature.

enjoy...

cheers

Jedi, congrats. Heard loads of good things bout the Denon. One of those I am considering too, to replace my current Goldring mm. If u don't mind, how much did u pay for it and where from, cos I might need similar tuition from the seller too. Thanks.

tmahmood,

I paid RM1080.00 (USD229.00 normal retail) from The Bluesman, Mr Rama Menon, lower ground floor, Amcorp Mall. He's there Sundays, and I believe there is still one more unit available. His number is 013-3373573. He can also do the installation for you, RM150.00 is the cost.

It's a very musical toe-tapping experience, this cartridge!

Thanks Jedi

Prices sold here are definitely not cheap... same cost I paid for the R elsewhere..

Get the 103R la, far less tracking errors, quieter background and a lot more refined in its presentation especially in the highs..

Dump the horrid plastic body for an aluminium or a UWE pantzerhold wood body...improvement beyond words..

I'm assuming its fitted to a standard Rega tonearm? From my own past experiments 103 to Rega tonearm isn't an ideal match. 103 actually need a heavier mass tonearm for much higher potential and resolve which can be quite a breathtaking experience. Yes, 103 can make a huge impression in some initial stages, but it stops there. Nevertheless if all that makes your day, so be it. Just saying that a fuller potential isn't realised when there's compromise in some ideal match.

This is merely my take on compatibility with a 103 cartie with standard Rega tonearm. 103 isn't some cartridge that'll match just about any tonearm. Linn Ittok is just about the bare minimum to match.

dixchen: I've heard the 103R a couple of times and didn't like what I perceived to be shine in my ears type brightness...

cmboy: Art Dudley says it's fine... even when it's been upgraded to Zu-specs with alloy body and some dressed up guts, and that's a heavier cartridge...

...but heck what do I know? Just that my toes have been tapping non-stop since last night....

JediSavant wrote:
...but heck what do I know? Just that my toes have been tapping non-stop since last night....

Right, just voicing my opinion from practice experience. As long as you're happy its allright. Just that I feel there's quite a lot more potential to be tapped in future. Heavy carts isn't a good mate to Rega tonearm, which I'll standby that indefinitely.

It's interesting that some consider the Denon a 'normal' cart for RB-300 and some consider it 'heavy'.

And maybe now's a good time to take a look at the associated equipment:

1. Rega Planar 3 w RB300, stock standard, about to get a new belt

2a. Musical Fidelity X-LPS V8 phono stage
2b. Holfi Ellipse phono stage

3a. Holfi Audis integrated amplifier, 35wpc
3b. Glow Audio EL84 SEP, 5wpc

4. Klipsch T-3000, vintage rock 'n roll speakers rated at 95db/w/m

I think I have a fairly efficient set up able to get the most out of what's sourcing and driving and ultimately throwing out. I have a preference for mid-range, rolled off highs, warmth and tonality over what I perceive mainly out there these days as sterility and sanitation.

JediSavant wrote:It's interesting that some consider the Denon a 'normal' cart for RB-300 and some consider it 'heavy'.

Without wanting to go deep into details, its quite a case of "win some, loose some" because of the cartrige weight. Its the "loose some" qualities that me personally aint quite making me crack any smiles, based on many and repeated A-B comparison in my own place. There exist other Denon models that suit the stock Rega arm better than 103 in quite a few areas because of better compatibility, but again, just that the since good money have been invested in a 103, its much higher potential should be desired in due time, otherwise its shortcomings will live on when mated to this tonearm or TT. Just remember, Rega tonearm, especially the RB300 class or below are built to a price point and not particularly suited for numerous "higher end" cartridges out there, although there will be numerous reviews or opinions that want to impress on readers that it is allright. Ok, mine is just another personal view. I have to admit I do very much like the Denon 103 but my rig have limitations that will not play it to a high potential degree. Spend a load of money, I must gain 80% or more potential, otherwise I'm wasting it, besides keep on playing it and it eventually and ultimately wears out.

Souping up the RB300 with various 3rd party upgrade (underslung CW and new tonearm wiring), it could bring a little more cheer, but synergy wise, your mileage will vary. Yes, upgrades (or serious change) is going to cost, can't help that.

Thinking about souping up to a Gyrodec actually.... crazy, but out of curiosity... what's your rig?

...incidentally, a friend of mine swears by his Planar 3 bolted to a Clearaudio Virtuoso... but that bunny is a pretty light one right?

scratch that, the steel bodied version is 10gm... more than the 103...

Which Virtuoso? Wood or Steel type ( 6gram and 10gram respectively)

6gram seems ok and about the limit.

JediSavant wrote:dixchen: I've heard the 103R a couple of times and didn't like what I perceived to be shine in my ears type brightness...

cmboy: Art Dudley says it's fine... even when it's been upgraded to Zu-specs with alloy body and some dressed up guts, and that's a heavier cartridge...

...but heck what do I know? Just that my toes have been tapping non-stop since last night....

Arm and setup dependant la.. one wouldn't call a 103R bright at all, basic character similar to the 103.. IMHO

cmboy wrote:

JediSavant wrote:It's interesting that some consider the Denon a 'normal' cart for RB-300 and some consider it 'heavy'.

Without wanting to go deep into details, its quite a case of "win some, loose some" because of the cartrige weight. Its the "loose some" qualities that me personally aint quite making me crack any smiles, based on many and repeated A-B comparison in my own place. There exist other Denon models that suit the stock Rega arm better than 103 in quite a few areas because of better compatibility, but again, just that the since good money have been invested in a 103, its much higher potential should be desired in due time, otherwise its shortcomings will live on when mated to this tonearm or TT. Just remember, Rega tonearm, especially the RB300 class or below are built to a price point and not particularly suited for numerous "higher end" cartridges out there, although there will be numerous reviews or opinions that want to impress on readers that it is allright. Ok, mine is just another personal view. I have to admit I do very much like the Denon 103 but my rig have limitations that will not play it to a high potential degree. Spend a load of money, I must gain 80% or more potential, otherwise I'm wasting it, besides keep on playing it and it eventually and ultimately wears out.

Souping up the RB300 with various 3rd party upgrade (underslung CW and new tonearm wiring), it could bring a little more cheer, but synergy wise, your mileage will vary. Yes, upgrades (or serious change) is going to cost, can't help that.

Well explained bro..

Guys, what's the qualitative description(s) that could apply to what a DL-103's ultimate potential might be?

JediSavant wrote:Thinking about souping up to a Gyrodec actually.... crazy, but out of curiosity... what's your rig?

...incidentally, a friend of mine swears by his Planar 3 bolted to a Clearaudio Virtuoso... but that bunny is a pretty light one right?

Clearaudios are excellent trackers well into the innermost LP grooves where other carts would have suffered IGD and sonic breakups already.

LOL... something to consider for my next TT...!!!

But this bunny right now is a pretty solid performer for it's price and the amount of good cheer it's introduced into the household. Need some tummy food now that ear food has been ingested!

JediSavant wrote:Guys, what's the qualitative description(s) that could apply to what a DL-103's ultimate potential might be?

Nothing definitive and as usual, people's views are often different. Like Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean and exotic car collector) is supposed to be quoted as having problem living with a Porsche and can't be telling people its a pile of dung.

Cartridges can perform differently on different rigs and tonearms. I sometimes think that they are quite bassy, quite bold, smooth and a unique richness, quite satisfying if very compatibe but how much finesse and classy thereon from what other people may have perceived or impressed upon varies from little to a world class beater depends very much on numerous factors and rig limitations, not to mention critical tuning, setup, amplification quality and room acoustics. Also just as many people who don't think much of it and opt for other competing cartridges at price point or by reputation. Its unfortunate, unless one got loads of money to buy and try one after another cartridge till you hit the right note.

Think you're right on several counts there cmboy...

One of the major factors behind the DL-103 for me is that it's been in virtual continuous production for over four decades. It was a broadcasting standard piece of equipment (maybe I'll hunt down an EMT turntable!!) and chances are most of us would have heard it when we were growing up listening to the radio...

Anyhow, it's day 3 today, and it's Blues day... big howling harmonicas, steel guitars and mojo trembling hoodoo going down. One thing that's impressed me today is how individual parts of a song, ie instruments vocals and beats are coherent even when things get raucous as in when soloists are going nuts and when voices are overlapping... Currently spinning Hoodoo Man Blues by the Junior Wells Chicago Blues Band with Buddy Guy reissued on 180gm by Delmark...

Let's see how Rock day goes tomorrow...

There is a super-charged DL-103 (re)mfg'ed by Zu audio.
Might be interesting for the diehard DL-103 fanboys to give it a try...

http://www.zuaudio.com/#turntable-cartridge.php

Zu? At 14gram weight, I would give it a pass without flinching, and pick the DL-304 which is a safer bet at that price bracket and elliptical stylus point than the conical 103. Besides, buying a great cartie is one matter, surely me hoping its NOT going to be mated with some bog standard NADDIE Pee Pee sumthing.

Come to think of it, if I like 14grams, I can do that vely cheeeply using 1 piece of car tyre 5gram lead balancing weight and bluetak it ontop of the cartridge headshell.

cmboy, that's 'nasty'!(lead weight)

You think so? not at all. My TT got about errrrr... 10 of them (well, not lead but newer steel ones actually and specifically used for balancing tyres) lurking somewhere inside the turntable internals.

Ahhhh! Now that just gave me an idea..!
Thanks.

mugenfoo wrote:There is a super-charged DL-103 (re)mfg'ed by Zu audio.
Might be interesting for the diehard DL-103 fanboys to give it a try...

http://www.zuaudio.com/#turntable-cartridge.php

Yeah, got one of those on order. Looks so good. It's an awesome piece of design. It'll be really nice on my new turntable, whatever it ends up being, but that's another story...

Here's a review of it by Art Dudley in Stereophile:

http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/1207zu/index.html

Apparently the guys at Zu were testing their version of the DL-103 on RB-300 based units, but it's all there in the review anyways...

Theoretically, it won't really matter what the weight of the cartridge is so long as the counter balance can cope with it and with sufficient adjustment provide the correct tracking force... I guess what's at issue here is the mass of the tone arm itself and the black magic behind its density and its sonic effects on what's being transmitted through it...

...right not I'm pretty happy with what's being transmitted...

Jedi,

Time for you to update your 'profile'. You are still claiming to be using RP3 with the Ortofon cartridge.

Small correction... Planar 3... RP3 replaced the Planar 3...

Edit to add: Oops correction, P3 replaced Planar 3, now RP3!!...

JediSavant wrote:Theoretically, it won't really matter what the weight of the cartridge is so long as the counter balance can cope with it and with sufficient adjustment provide the correct tracking force... I guess what's at issue here is the mass of the tone arm itself and the black magic behind its density and its sonic effects on what's being transmitted through it...

...right not I'm pretty happy with what's being transmitted...

BZZZZZZZZZT. You're MEGA wrong here....

Suggest you to go check out on tonearm "effective mass" and tonearm/cart resonances. No Black magic. It all works in conjunction with the cart's compliance ratings (or the "springiness" of the cantilever's mounting; sometimes with horizontal & vertical ratings). +/- a few quirky designs like tonearm internal fluid damping.. but it's still all valid concepts.

Basically its the principle of Inertia. While you can balance out the VTF as per the cart's specs, but how well would the tonearm traverse the spiral path (or follow surface warpage) and flex the cantilever's suspension would be the total effective mass here (which is the cart's mass, the tonearm effective mass, screws, washers, and whatever metal or rubber ballast that cmboy would stick on top of the headshell.... )

That's what I mean by black magic... the kind of concepts and theories that most find difficult to translate into non-jargon. For all practical purposes it still holds that if one can counter balance the cartridge, it'll still play music.

This is much like moving from the Newtonian realm to the Relativistic realm.

mugenfoo wrote:There is a super-charged DL-103 (re)mfg'ed by Zu audio.
Might be interesting for the diehard DL-103 fanboys to give it a try...

http://www.zuaudio.com/#turntable-cartridge.php

Nuding a 103/103r in an aluminum or wood body have long had it's following for a long time now since UWE Bretschneider started offering it to the vinylphile community around the world especially in the us.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/uwebody_e.html

As musical the Denon 103 is ,it's still a century old cart ( not exactly la ) but been around forever , with different iterations after different iterations , I think it's a Japanese thing similar to the Mitsubishi evo's and the Subaru Sti impreza's , r,m,ls,LC you name it they have it!

Same generator with various tweaks to it in the same ole body.

Anyone ever attempted this mod locally ( I did!) took me 3 minutes! , would know how crappy the stock plastic body is, wood glued on some areas only.

Enter the UWE bodies, perfectly tight press fitted ( amazing woodworking skills for these kind of tolerances, you'll be inclined to think it was cnc machined!

Anyway, sound wise, well listening to this thereafter would make anyone with a standard cart reach out for the standard casing to have it stored away for good!

It's that amazing!

Alum bodies being offered by MIDAS in HK that offers a ' different ' rather than better sound compared to the wood version.

The 103's continues to have it's cult following for it's excellent tweak ability including Soundsmith's ruby line contact styli and potted generator modifications.

Sky's the limit on this so called entry level cart. Puts the fun back in the art of DIY modification. Great for people like me who can't afford KOETSU'S.

JediSavant wrote:That's what I mean by black magic... the kind of concepts and theories that most find difficult to translate into non-jargon. For all practical purposes it still holds that if one can counter balance the cartridge, it'll still play music.

This is much like moving from the Newtonian realm to the Relativistic realm.

Where got jargon ? Its all textbook reference.

If you get the cart/tonearm compatibility wrong... it'll do more than just play music: you run the risk of damaging your precious LPs as well (even if you have set the weights for VTF correctly).


As for the car analogy ... perhaps the DL-103 is not quite even an Evo or STi yet. But more like a Toyota Starlet Turbo. Fun and zippy with lots of modding potential. But alas, its still a Starlet only. Bring on a real EVO or STI next to it, and end of story.

One main reason for the fame of the DL-103 and its popularity amongst radio DJs was because it was a very trackable & forgiving cart that glosses over many scratches and pops by errors of omission. Hence the radio station folks loved it. You could play a somewhat scratched up LP and the DL-103 could still make music from it without all the nasties. But on the same note, this also means glossing over all the innermost details and microdynamics of the musical content. So back to compromises, you get what you pay for & don't expect any sky high revelations from a DL-103, no matter how modded it is.

Wow, dixchen: You could set up a nice little sideline modifying 103's!! The UWE bodies are quite costly at EUR100/each at the time of the TNT review, and looks like you got it right quicker than the reviewer!!

mugenfoo: Rather dramatic isn't it? I'd always thought the RB300 to be a medium mass arm.

RB300 is OK to go with a DL-103.

Actually, i've tried this combo before... RB700 with DL-103 on a P5 deck, vs a RB301 with CA Maestro wood on a P3-24 deck. The RB301/Maestro combo still had the upper hand in just about every sonic aspects. Again, you gets what u pays for...

But I did feel that the RB arm didn't quite permit the Maestro to reveal its fullest potential possible.

Purely my POV, Its NOT ok! and it slides into some disaster area! There's some very desired and perhaps essential SQ that don't make it with this combo.

Ok, me not going to open bucket of snakes by my findings. Just my own take with numerous AB experimentation and comparison.

Hmmm.... Mugenfoo says ok, Art Dudley says ok, Sean Casey from Zu says ok... I say ok...

Cmboy, what's some of these desirable things that you weren't getting from the combo in question?

Told all earlier, no telling. Tell too much? people can start bringing out daggers like one asshole who tried to lambast me for being tongue in cheek on one particular vintage.
And lastly, I don't believe too much in reviews, I'll use my own ears mostly and in tandem with electronics background.
If brave to invest in all these thingys, do own research, experimentation and the long winding learning curve, as I did from countless moons ago.

Share and care man, it's all about sharing... Don't be too despondent....

Never mind lah. Keep or enjoy the 103 for whatever its current situation, set your sights on a better higher end TT + phono, you'd likely enjoy higher potential with the 103 later on. Just had a quickie packed Nasi Beriyani from one mamak shop. Whilst eating it, the sound of this 103 combo cris-crossed my mind countless times.. Gulppppp! Ok..gotta run for upcoming appointment. Cheerio!

I can't wait for my economy priced MC SUT to arrive and muck around with it... See?.. I'm going to change whole current MC stage with something else!

This is what I can advise you guys la, even by the time you change over to a new TT or a new arm, a modified 103/103R will still be in your list of carts to listen to for a long time.

Enjoy the music!!

you guys might wanna read the below taken from ' real ' world users not paid magazine or online reviewers... enjoy..


I haven't heard the Zu 103, but I'd rather put my money into
a 103R with one of Uwe's wood bodies (do a search at vinylasylum for
Uwe/wood body/Denon), which is exactly what I have done, for a number of
reasons.

First of all, while you will find the odd person that
prefers the 103 to the 103R, you'll find the vast majority that have
heard both prefer the 103R and think it's worth the extra money.
Secondly, the 103R plus wood body comes in for less money than the Zu
103. Next, of the few people that have heard a wood bodied 103 or 103R
vs. one that has been nuded using a brass mounting plate, what I read
between the lines in those comparisons is that I'd prefer the wood body
to the nuded/brass and I think the nuded brass would be more similar to
the the Zu than the Zu would be to the wood body. The wood bodied Denons
have replaced cartridges like the megabuck Shelter 901 and Benz Ebony L
(a $3,000 cartridge) and compared favorably with others like the Koetsu
Rosewood and Koetsu Rosewood Sugano as well as the Myabi by people
using them long before the Zu became available and was reviewed in
Stereophile.

Finally, the wood body is re-usable as it is simply a
pressure fit. So if your 103 or 103R wears out, you can simply buy a
new one and pop it into the wood body or send it out for a retip,
allowing a lot of flexibility. The varying wood bodies also allow for
"customization" if you will, in terms of matching cartridge weight to
tonearm and that can be a concern with the Zu weighing in at over 14
grams, a weight that may limit its use with certain arms.

I don't
think you'll see Zu do the "R" as it will push the cartridge into the
$500 retail territory based on the plain 103 pricing and that becomes a
more difficult sell. Under $400 it seems like a lot less of a stretch
for someone upgrading from a $200-$300 MM.

From a financial point of view it makes sense. I'm gonna go get a DL-103R next month and maybe whittle a wooden body out of some bits and pieces of teak and rosewood I have laying about. Smoke a corn cob pipe while I'm doing it and drink a nice Nicaraguan rum on the rocks while listening to Janis Ian....

However, from an industrial design point of view, the original body is a triumph of tactility and function, the open sided body notwithstanding...

Errrr, lemme stir shit pot this evening. Don't also think your phono stage is the last word in the chain. Since you've a Denon to play play, how about a very compatible step up transformer stage.

I'm heading into that arena to play play. Search around, few hundred notes can get quite a good one for a start. Forget those that are asking silly prices unless you wanna splash more.

Guys, check out the link,nice post on Denon 103. Thorsten view pretty much sump up my own experience.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=346#346

cmboy wrote:Errrr, lemme stir shit pot this evening. Don't also think your phono stage is the last word in the chain. Since you've a Denon to play play, how about a very compatible step up transformer stage.

I'm heading into that arena to play play. Search around, few hundred notes can get quite a good one for a start. Forget those that are asking silly prices unless you wanna splash more.

So you're gonna build your own?

My phono-stage handles MM & MC, so far so good.