Converting Kimber KCAG from RCA to XLR

Hi folks, I have 2 pairs of Kimber KCAG RCA interconnects and I would like to convert 1 pair to XLR. As you can see from the picture which I jacked from the internet, the KCAG consists of 3 silver wires. I would appreciate it if anybody could point out which wire should be soldered to which pin on the XLR connector. Many thanks in advance.

See this website
http://www.hifi4sale.net/equipment-discussions-f6/converting-kimber-kcag-from-rca-to-xlr-t5274.htm

Interesting website! It's exactly what i'm asking. literally! But no answers yet though.

My apologies .... finger trouble.

Here it is again:
http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-rca-1.html
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/cable_xlr_to_phone.html

Thanks for the info Sph.

Actually what I had in mind was to convert my KCAG which are currently both ends RCA to both ends XLR. These babies just arrived in the mail yesterday. Silver plated contacts too.



But to neuter my KCAG in favour of these Neutriks is still a scary undertaking. I might not go on with it.

Don't fret.
All you need is basic DIY soldering for such a project.
If you haven't done any soldering, then try it out on some old wires (any type) and a cheap XLR connector.
Search on Google for "soldering basics" for info on the subject.
Here's one site to get you started.
http://www.circuitrework.com/guides/7-1-1.shtml

Once you have this project completed satisfactorily you will yearn for more. That's the start of your DIY journey!

Happy DIY!

Here's another website (in video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLfXXRfRIzY

Use solder with some silver for your project.

no lah, don't mutilate those factory terminated KCAGs...

If they were Monster Interlink 400 or Chord Chrysalis, OK lah, but Kimber KCAG .... ?

aiyah en bimmer, u should have bought 3 pin xlr male plug to rca female socket adapter. much easier that whay i reckon, as mf said, sayang lor baik juai or simpan etc

Yup, should give the adaptor a try, a variety of adaptors RCA to XLR or visa versa/ male /female etc are available, for example Aqvox about USD55.00, Cardas, priced at USD78.50 a pair... (abt RM270) while Purist Audio abt USD100.00 at thecableco.com. Saw before a used pair of Cardas on audiogon but not sure now. Try gooling around for better price..

Not sure about affect on the sound but at least if you don't like it, the cable will still be intact..

my two sens worth

Beemie, if u are curious to try out your Krell's balanced inputs but from a CD player with only RCA outputs, you can try to DIY your own RCA to XLR cables. (no need to wait for that ML CD player! )

I recently made one with Silver Sonic interconnect cables, Canare RCA plugs and Neutrik XLR male plugs.

Thanks for the input guys, but alas, my personal feeling with XLR to RCA adaptors is akin to copulation and condoms, no feel at all. Can't believe I just said that. I blame Peter Teo. His music and lyrics have taken it toll on my state of mind.

Well anyways, correct me if i'm wrong but with XLR to RCA adaptors or "XLR on one end and RCA on the other end cables" you're not reaping the benefits of your equiptments balanced circuitry correct? Might as well just stick to RCA then?

That illusive Levinson if I ever get it is the ultimate upgrade for me. From then on i'll know that I never ever need to change my source component again because beyond that Levinson lies a realm I cannot possibly achieve in my blue collar lifetime.

Give it a try... you **might** hear an audible difference still. Don't discount this so soon just yet.

OK Mugen, i'll give it a try. Do you know which of the KCAG wires goes where?

Here what I know and don't know:

Balanced connectors have 3 pin. The KCAG has 3 wires.

So, positive goes to pin 2 (hot)
and negative goes to pin 3 (cold)
What about pin 1 (common/shield)?

Pin 1 is what boggles me because the KCAG has no shielding. Do I solder the third wire to shield or do I solder the third wire to Pin 3 (cold) and leave pin 1 unconnected? Would this still be a balanced connection?

In my experience with both by converter XLR to RCA & cable XLR to RCA from my Sony X7ESD to preamp & amp (Bryston) the sound dry, good & detail high but less dynamic compare than RCA to RCA or XLR to XLR. May be my connector/plug only normal neutrik. Just want to try the affect. Why not you try & see how it sound with your system.

Tho most important from my AV specialist shop, convert mean no more balance like XLR to XLR, but I still try.

Well, I am asking about how to convert RCA-RCA to XLR-XLR. No converters and no hybrids for me.

I think you just solder pin to pin and forget about the shielding. Alternately, wrap a thin wire around the Kimber and solder that to the shields pin.

Beemer, you know my stand on mutilating the KCAGs....

But if u absolutely wanna do the frankenstein job... i would do it this way ..
first find out which core is used for the RCA's + pin. This shall be the the XLR's pin 2 (hot/non-inverting pin).

Then find out which core carries the negative. This will be for XLR pin 3 (cold or inverting).

The third core, if its not used in the RCA, Then use it for XLR pin 1 (ground pin).

If the third core is also soldered to the RCA's ground, means that 1 core is positive and 2 cores are for ground. Check and see if the 3rd core is left unsoldered at both RCA ends, or if its only soldered at ONE RCA end. In this case, this 3rd core is best used as the Ground (pin 1) for the XLR job.

However, if the 2nd and 3rd cores are also terminated at both ends of the RCA, then u just got to decide which goes for negative and which goes for ground. Just remember to "maintain cable geometry" when u decide to split up which is which for negative or ground.

Confused you already ? ... here's a better solution. Sell off (ahem ahem!) that unused pair of KCAG, and get yourself a proper pair with factory terminated XLR interconnects.

Or just buy some Silver Sonic AirMatrix (or whichever brand u like that has twin core + outer shield conductors) cables and make your own balanced interconnects right from the beginning !

Thanks MrWong, Mugen,

I emailed Kimber about the matter and they were quick to reply. Here's what they said:

"The KCAG conductors are all the same so you can terminate each wire to which ever pins you like. The important thing is that your terminations are consistent from one end to the other. This can be especially easy to get wrong since the conductors are all the same color. This on reason why we recommend having this done by our factory.

The cost would be $100.00 plus shipping. "

Translation: Just send it in!

Don't waste the $100.00 . You have already bought the XLR connectors. It only natural the manufacturer want to get your $100
If you are going to have it converted, do it yourself.
To differentiate the conductors, use a multimeter. Set it on OHM (resistance) and test out the ends. If the ends are from the same conductor, the reading should show 0 (zero).
Once you have determined which end belongs to which, mark the different conductors (with different colour pens) to ensure you don't mix them. Check again with the multimeter.

Good luck.

Thaks SPH,

Well, that much I do know but my concern now is that I want to wire it according to manufacturer's topology (does the term topology apply here?)

You see the KCAG, RCA version is wired with 1 wire positive and 2 wires joint together negative. So the only thing I need to find out now is how Kimber wires their XLR version. There are 2 possibilities:

1. 1 wire hot/non-inverting, 2 wires cold/inverting

or


2. 1 Wire hot/non-inverting, 1 wire cold/inverting, 1 wire common/shield

But it looks like Kimber is not telling. Hey, anybody out there got KCAG balanced, care to undress her and solve the mystery? Pretty please?

Bimmer, I think if we open up the RCA plugs we can see isn't it ? The hot wire is the one to the center pin. The negative/ground is the one to the outer casing. Mugenfoo has a point. Try to reuse the individual wires as they are currently being used. I.e. middle pin/+ve wire use for XLR +ve as well. This is assuming your cable already run-in. So you get consistent sound.

An alternative. Mugenfoo has soldering skills and knowledge of the so-called topology. See if you can bodek him and get him to do the re-wiring/soldering for you. For a small fee lar of course.

Beemie,

Kimber already replied ... so u just do this..
1 wire for hot, 1 wire for cold, 1 wire for ground.

SIMPLE !!!!

WongKN wrote:
An alternative. Mugenfoo has soldering skills and knowledge of the so-called topology. See if you can bodek him and get him to do the re-wiring/soldering for you. For a small fee lar of course.

Oooooo... this one dangerous recommendation here... nanti people accuse me of pretending to be "soldering Guru" instead....

Try contacting this guy who has upgraded his KCAG. He may be able to help.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73489.0

Ok, I've stripped her naked so that you guys can indulge in some cable porn. Sorry bout the image quality, Nokia E90 has a sucky camera.



As you can make out from the fuzzy image, 1 wire is positive and 2 wires negative.

Question:

Regarding balanced "topology"

Does the balanced topology require all three terminals to be connected? If only hot and cold are connected and common is not, would it still be operating in balanced mode? Does it have to be a trinity to be balanced or would a twosome suffice? That is the question.

All three needs to be connected AFAIK. If I understand correctly, 1 is live, 1 neutral and 1 ground. Actually I am sure there are references that will verify this. DON'T only depend on Google or the internet. The library or even places like Kinokuniya have good books on basic electronics that should settle this once and for all. Hifi is not black art. We all still have to obey the basic rules of electronics and the laws of physics lar

Yes. the Hot and cold signals still NEED a ground reference point. which is provided via pin-1 of the XLR connection.


Treat Pin-1 as the ZERO VOLTAGE aka GROUND REFERENCE.

Then pin-2 (HOT) is the AC signal that swings about the zero axis as referenced to pin-1, while pin-3 (cold) is the exact same signal as in pin-2 BUT phase INVERTED.

But both the hot and cold signals still NEED the GROUND REFERENCE aka ZERO volt reference.

Why make life so difficult? Just connect the three wire to the three pole of xlr will do. All three +, -, n common need to be connected. U may take the centre wire from RCA as xlr +, RCA gnd as xlr -, n RCA sheilding as common. It's done.

Or to make things easy bimmerman, I myself do have very elementary soldering skills so instead of paying Kimber RM100, you can pay me RM50 and I will solder the XLR connectors for you. But silver solder will cost extra !!



(joking only yah, life is short lar, just get it done and enjoy the music lar !! )

If u sayang your kimber cable, u may try to make 1 using wire wraping wire which Alen wright claim to be good sounding 15 years ago in his cable cook book.

U may also need to consider weather to use silver solder, silver solder may not always sound good.

If u need any silver solder I can let u have some foc

I can tell you folks have grown accustomed to my silliness in this matter and taken a liking to my quirky disposition. I would have been "cha" out of my wits in another forum. Thanks y'all for your patience and understanding.

Ok, I geddit now. All three need to be connected to make a balanced connection. One signal, one inverted phase signal and one common ground as reference. And then some differential amplifier uses the signal/inverted signal to cancel out noise together with the common as a return path. Okiedokie!

I've checked with some friends and i'm told the KCAG will become thin sounding, lacking body and weight in balanced configuration unless I run it with a minimum of 5 strands instead of 3. 2 strands hot, 2 strands cold and 1 strand common. Or better 6 strands with 2 strands common. Whoa! far out and no thanks!!!

So, i'm taking Mugens advise and keeping it as RCA. Afterall, my current setup sounds spankingly good already. Levinson or no Levinson.

Hey Mugen, gotta get me that Pipit thingy soon for a vinyl revival yo! Wanna rewire my tonearm with Kimber TAK too. What say you?

By the way Mr. Wong, Kimber was asking for US$100+shipping not RM100!

Hey Mr. Noodles, thanks for the Silver solder offer. Next time can?

Hey no problemo .... but u better hurry, i think Frankie boy is runnig low on the Pipit II units already and he ain't making anymore of them. Unless u wanna put an order down for his new "Pipit Reference" phono stage which will cost a pretty penny.

Last i checked, he has mebbe 1 or 2 more units left up for grabs. We know who grabbed one recently already!

What tonearm do u wanna rewire? Don't tell me the TP13a kugelarm ? Ouch! The TAK cable would be worth more than the tonearm already! But if u want to, sure! ... and mr moodle can supply the silver solder.

Hey Mugen, ok ok TAK too good for the TP13a. Any recommendations?

Actually I already have the phonetical equvalent of a PiPit2. It's from NAD, it's the NAD PP2.

As for pipit or pipit2, what's the difference and which is better in your opinion? How much do these cost? (PM me if need be).

Nighty night!

Ok, anytime. I do have a few types for u. But Im not using it.
Cheers,

If I remember correctly, mugen posted the photos of both Pipit I mk2 and Pipit II.
Maybe he can explain briefly on the differences.

In my opinion, PP2 cannot match the Pipit II (let's not compare the price 1st) .

car o scope wrote:If I remember correctly, mugen posted the photos of both Pipit I mk2 and Pipit II.
Maybe he can explain briefly on the differences.

In my opinion, PP2 cannot match the Pipit II (let's not compare the price 1st) .

Comparing NAD PP2 vs. Frankie Pipit II is like comparing Kancil vs. Altis.

Hahahahaha.. Ya... It is a very obvious difference but just by words, it will not give the true picture (or sound in this case) on the differences.

but still, if someone here is looking for a budget NAD phono, I have one old NAD PP lying somewhere around a corner.

Bimmer, go and splurge on the multi-curve phono pre made by Audio Image. I highly recommend that. Price is slightly less than RM5k 'only'.

bimmerman wrote:Hey Mugen, ok ok TAK too good for the TP13a. Any recommendations?

Actually I already have the phonetical equvalent of a PiPit2. It's from NAD, it's the NAD PP2.

As for pipit or pipit2, what's the difference and which is better in your opinion? How much do these cost? (PM me if need be).

Nighty night!

The quintessential Pipit is no longer being manufactured by Frankie anymore.

Here are the following Pipit generations according to him:

1. Pipit Original (aka Pipit 1)
This is the very first unit that was reviewed about 10 years ago in The Star Audiofile.
Variable resistance loading & variable capacitance via DIP switches.
Variable gain done by swapping a pair of carbon resistors on the circuit board.

2. Pipit 1 MK. II
This mid-model-revision had the variable capacitance loading removed, but added a variable gain via the same DIP switches.

3. Pipit 2.
This one no longer has separate RCA inputs for MM and MC inputs. They now share the same RCA inputs.
Variable loading for MC is the same as Pipit 1 (original & mk.II).
Variable gain via DIP switch settings.

3. Pipit 3, its a one-off batch that Frankie made-to-order for Tong Lee. Not sure how many was made and how many did Tong Lee sell out to the market.

All the above Pipits have the same black metal shoebox chassis and separate PSU box. Owners of the Pipit 1 and Pipit mk.II can have the PSU upgraded to the "PSU 1000" unit which is housed in a larger and rectangular plastic box (painted black also). PSU 1000 comes standard with the Pipit 2. Not sure what PSU goes with the Pipit 3 but i would guess the same PSU 1000 still.


For overall performance, the Pipit 2 will outshine the Pipit 1 anytime. Better bass extension, better rythym, better dynamics, better detailling, etc etc.


But there is one ACE that Pipit 1 will ALWAYS WIN hands down. And this is in the SWEETNESS & LUSHNESS of Vocals.

WongKN wrote:Bimmer, go and splurge on the multi-curve phono pre made by Audio Image. I highly recommend that. Price is slightly less than RM5k 'only'.

Hey Uncle WongKN! Kenot lah I spend RM5K buy multi-curve device then where got anymore money to buy Levinson ah? Kenot lah. My Turntable only for listen Mantovani, Ronnie Aldrich, Acker Bilk and other old fart music. CD still my priority one.

Mugern, are you sure comparing the PP2 and Pipit2 like Kanchil and Altis. Not like Kanchil and Ferrari meh? Since we're in the topic of comparing phono and cars, how you think the Trichord Dino compares against the Pipit2?

And now the million dollar question... How much the Pipit2?

under 2K, thats why its only Altis and not Fallalee.

Trichord Dino also under 2K woh. But i'm sure the Pipit2 can put Dino in his pocket right?

Not sure, but can A/B with a Pipit-1 Mk.II if u like ....

It has been rumoured that the Pipit 2 can walap even the entry level FM Acoustic Phono costing approx 10x the Pipit 2's price.

Pipit 1 & 2 for sure will walap the following:
NAD PP-anything
Rotel 9XX Phono
Pro-Ject Phonobox anything
Behringer Phono
...

Bimmer,
You will use your KCAG for the phono pre-amp as well?

bimmerman wrote:Mugern, are you sure comparing the PP2 and Pipit2 like Kanchil and Altis. Not like Kanchil and Ferrari meh? Since we're in the topic of comparing phono and cars, how you think the Trichord Dino compares against the Pipit2?

And now the million dollar question... How much the Pipit2?

Sorry lah bro beemer, i never heard the Dino in action b4, so cannot comment.

Pipit 2 price, RM 1.5K is the sticker price. Not that I'm selling them. I can just hook u up with the seller only. If u want something somewhat higher performing, can try the RM2K+ "Adrian Phono". Also a shoebox design in a full aluminium casing + separate PSU also in an alu casing. This one the bass is damn SYIOK one... can walap the Pipits nicely in the bass dept.

car o scope wrote:Bimmer,
You will use your KCAG for the phono pre-amp as well?

Ya loh Mr. Caroscope. One pair for CD and one pair for TT loh. Why? you want to buy my KCAG izzit? Sorry loh, if I sell oso will sell to Mr. Mufoo first because he already "chup" and I already promise him mah. But if Mufoo dunch want then I sell to you lah.

mugenfoo wrote:

bimmerman wrote:Mugern, are you sure comparing the PP2 and Pipit2 like Kanchil and Altis. Not like Kanchil and Ferrari meh? Since we're in the topic of comparing phono and cars, how you think the Trichord Dino compares against the Pipit2?

And now the million dollar question... How much the Pipit2?

Sorry lah bro beemer, i never heard the Dino in action b4, so cannot comment.

Pipit 2 price, RM 1.5K is the sticker price. Not that I'm selling them. I can just hook u up with the seller only. If u want something somewhat higher performing, can try the RM2K+ "Adrian Phono". Also a shoebox design in a full aluminium casing + separate PSU also in an alu casing. This one the bass is damn SYIOK one... can walap the Pipits nicely in the bass dept.

RM1,500 can nego lah izzit? Actually I know Frankie Foo, no, not the Pua Chu Kang nemesis but Frankie Audio. He helped me mod my interated before and did an excellent job. But did it through a friend who passed away already.

I got another friend also very close to Frankie Audio. I call him Mr.OSK because he is very excellent stock market man and gives excellent market advise. But lost touch already after the other friend passed away.

Mugen, you can help me nego nego or not? Maybe next month I got some budget for vinyl revival. But come to think of it, bass is what I really want lah, maybe the Adrian phono better for me hor? I'm also thinking to change my TT to Project 6.1 leh. Carbonfibre arm and looks like UFO. You know lah, I like good looking gear mah.

Since you are already into the spending mood, might as well go for the Clearaudio TT + arm lar. Also, there is a Linn LP12 with arm for sale at our FS forum.