Harbeth speakers

I just listened to 3 models in the Harbeth line of speakers at Sam's place today. They were the SHL-5, Compact 7ES-3 and the M30. A Quad 606 power amp was used to power all speakers and a Rega Apollo and Quad CDP were the sources.

Out of the three speakers, the M30 was shut-in and laidback compared to the other two, and that didn't appeal to me. The SHL-5 and the Compact 7ES-3 on the other hand, were spectacular speakers. The sound they produced was unbelievably natural with great scale and dynamics. It is uncanny that the sound coming out from these speakers can be so real and unforced it's just like listening to the real thing.

Surprisingly the Compact 7ES-3 only goes down to 46Hz on paper but the overall sound of it is much more musical and coherent from top to bottom than my PMC speakers that go down to 35Hz. I was told that the midrange magic of Harbeth speakers is due to the design philosophy of all Harbeth speakers as more attention has been put towards this area. Now I realize why my PMC speakers, although rated to go down to 35Hz with a puny 4" woofer can sometimes sound a little forced when pumping out huge chunks of bass.

I didn't listen to the M40.1 since the gigantic speakers were way out of my budget but was told they share a resemblance to the M30 being in the Monitor family, so I guess the sound won't appeal to me either.

I'm now contemplating between the SHL-5 and Compact 7ES-3. The latter comes with the selected tiger ebony finish at a premium which is much pleasant-looking(to me) whereas the SHL-5 only comes with the plain cherry. For the price, I would say the SHL-5(and M30) is a better buy compared to the 7ES-3. Either way, I don't think I"ll be disappointed.

Hi ryder,

Thanks for sharing your auditioning experience on Harbeth speakers.

What's the frequency response of SHL-5 ? IMO, for a better and serious auditioning, you should bring your Plinius amp for the pairing. The ideal case will be to loan SHL-5 speakers back for your realistic audiotion based on your room and equipment setup if it is allowed. Well, if you are really serious to buy any Harbeth speakers, i do no see why you are be rejected. Tell us more ...

Wish your dream comes true.

Auronthas

Hi Auronthas,

Frequency response of SHL-5 is 40Hz-24kHz +/- 3dB.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php?section=products&page=superhl5&model=Super%20HL5

Actually I know that the room is the most important but after listening to the speakers in the showroom I have acknowledged the quality of Harbeth speakers. The sound does appeal to me and I know I can't go wrong with these speakers. I have done a survey in Audiogon and found that Harbeth speakers are being driven by Plinius amplification in hifi shows, and most comments by forummers are positive. Those who left the Harbeth rooms have been more impressed that disappointed. Also, the Quad amp in Sam's place is actually cheap, good quality and value for money though.

Great to know that we have done numerous hard work, all the best and enjoy your new 'toy' soon.

Auronthas

Thanks Auronthas. I'm sitting on the fence between the SHL-5 and Compact 7ES-3 and will make a decision soon. If you have not listened to these speakers yet, you may want to audition them. The rave reviews and positive comments from those who own or have listened to these speakers do speak for themselves. If the SHL-5 comes in tiger ebony finish WITHOUT a premium charge, it would have been a lot easier for me.

I hope i can listen to Harbeth one day as it's one of the most natural sound monitor speaker in the world.

I wish Harbeth owners who on own Krell amp (eg. KAV-400xi) can give their feedback on how good is this combination?

I have no intention to upgrade my sound system now except probably to acquire external DAC (CA DacMagic) but just curious about Harbeth due to its attractive price here and its performance.

Auronthas

Oops...not so good news. As you know, I own the Krell KPS-30i CDP and asked Sam what he thinks of the Krell player. He didn't know I own the player and thought I was just asking a question, and he mentioned that Krell doesn't go well with Harbeth. He was a little critical on Krell equipment with his comments, and I guess he is just not into the brand.

Another point I forgotten to mention is I managed to hear a "big" difference in sound when swapping CDPs for the first time yesterday, the first time after almost 12 years in hifi. Quite an embarrassment really. The Quad CDP was really good in the midrange, very liquid, organic and airy, but the bass was loose, boomy and undefined. On the other hand, the Rega Apollo had defined bass lines, but the midrange did not have the palpable quality of the Quad. Now I'm thinking hard if my Krell CDP would sound more like the Rega or the Quad. I think your intention to go for an external DAC may be a right choice, although sometimes there can be totally no difference depending on matching and resolution of the rest of the system.

[Out of topic]

Yes, I would say sources also plays part of music produced besides amp and speaker.

I have done a lot of comparison and searching for external DAC or decent CDP. Since i am having two digital source CA 540C V2 and Squeezebox V3 (network media player), external DAC will give me both upgrading.

Earlier i was aiming on Benchmark DAC 1,until reading some posts in Audiogon, some said its too analytical and studio-like music which i prefer more musical soundstage.

Since my current CDP is Cambridge Audio with Wolfson DAC chips, i like the music produced, hence, i really look forward CA DacMagic very much which having the same DAC as 840C.

Auronthas

Hi there guys,

Hi KFM,

Yes, tiger ebony is really nice, but it does come at a high price to me, although Sam said it's relatively cheap since the price difference between cherry and tiger ebony in UK is GBP500. Unfortunately I was informed the manufacturer does not ship out SHL-5 in tiger ebony as it only comes in standard cherry. The tiger ebony is only available with the Monitor 30 and Compact 7ES-3.

ryder wrote:Hi KFM,

Yes, tiger ebony is really nice, but it does come at a high price to me, although Sam said it's relatively cheap since the price difference between cherry and tiger ebony in UK is GBP500. Unfortunately I was informed the manufacturer does not ship out SHL-5 in tiger ebony as it only comes in standard cherry. The tiger ebony is only available with the Monitor 30 and Compact 7ES-3.

Hi Ryder,

Is that true? I thought there was one that was a so called anniversary version of the sHL5 that was in tiger ebony. I have been reading and reading and reading about these speakers and I am much in love with it. But dont know when I will take the plunge and order one.

Yes KFM, it is indeed true. Sam informed that Harbeth UK does not ship out the tiger ebony finish for the SHL-5 anymore and only cherry is available. There may be some details that he may not be revealing to us consumers but one thing is for sure, we won't be getting any SHL-5 in tiger ebony. The M30 in tiger ebony finish at Sam's place really looks classy.

Anyway, the SHL-5 sold here is of greater value compared the Compact 7ES-3 which I favour more if we compare the price here with the retail price in the UK.

ryder wrote:Yes KFM, it is indeed true. Sam informed that Harbeth UK does not ship out the tiger ebony finish for the SHL-5 anymore and only cherry is available. There may be some details that he may not be revealing to us consumers but one thing is for sure, we won't be getting any SHL-5 in tiger ebony. The M30 in tiger ebony finish at Sam's place really looks classy.

Anyway, the SHL-5 sold here is of greater value compared the Compact 7ES-3 which I favour more if we compare the price here with the retail price in the UK.

OK thanks for the info. The price here are pretty good I was told. And its pretty impossible to get any on the second hand market.

I suppose most who have bought Harbeth speakers will keep them for life, hence the rarity in the used market.

ryder wrote:I suppose most who have bought Harbeth speakers will keep them for life, hence the rarity in the used market.

You are absolutely right about that! Hopefully one day I will be a proud owner of a pair.

auronthas wrote:I wish Harbeth owners who on own Krell amp (eg. KAV-400xi) can give their feedback on how good is this combination?

Just a quick update. After reading through countless of threads in the Harbeth forums, most of them contributed by the designer himself Alan Shaw which actively participates in the discussion, the consensus is Harbeth speakers are not power-hungry, not cable-sensitive, not fussy with speaker stands(except for listening height), and can match well with any type of amplifiers that is capable of healthy power delivery. Alan has mentioned that his speakers will show very little difference in sonic signature with most amplifiers in the market and stated that they will be compatible with any good amps out there.

The discussion thread below shows a forummer who found a dealer which uses a Krell S300i to drive the SHL-5 in a showroom in London.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?t=41&page=13

Hence, Sam's earlier notion may come off little unwarranted.

Hi guys,
GOod thread, with lots of positive feedback on the Harbeth line.

Sorry to sound like a total noob, but who is sam?and where can i audition these speakers? Will they match my resident system?

Also, can anyone recommend a decent CDP

Sam= Sam Chan of Tropical Audio. whats your resident system?

ryder wrote:

auronthas wrote:I wish Harbeth owners who on own Krell amp (eg. KAV-400xi) can give their feedback on how good is this combination?

The discussion thread below shows a forummer who found a dealer which uses a Krell S300i to drive the SHL-5 in a showroom in London.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?t=41&page=13

Hence, Sam's earlier notion may come off little unwarranted.

Argh... Ryder, you have poisoned me, i.e. Krell + Harbeth, LOL

I would stay with my SF for a long time, my next potential upgrade will be external DAC.

Cheers,

Auronthas

Sorry Auronthas, I know your Sonus Fabers will be sticking with you for a long time. Furthermore the Domus looks so much classier than the plain boxy ugly-looking Harbeths(that's the reason I have never bothered to look at these speakers after all these years). They won't win any beauty contest for sure but once these speakers start to play music it's another story. I hope you get your DAC soon and don't listen to the Harbeth....cos after listening to the speakers you may well be seduced by them. :-)

dheensay, you can audition the speakers in Tropical Audio in the heart of KL about 10 minutes drive from IJN(I'm only familiar with this landmark). I believe the current prices of Harbeth speakers we're getting here are the best value, sound for pound in comparison to other speakers in the similar price range although listening preferences will vary.

I'm not a dealer by the way, just an avid audio enthusiast and music lover.

ryder wrote:Sorry Auronthas, I know your Sonus Fabers will be sticking with you for a long time. Furthermore the Domus looks so much classier than the plain boxy ugly-looking Harbeths(that's the reason I have never bothered to look at these speakers after all these years). They won't win any beauty contest for sure but once these speakers start to play music it's another story. I hope you get your DAC soon and don't listen to the Harbeth....cos you may well be seduced by them. :-)

Hi ryder, i was kidding, need not to say sorry.

Harbeth is famous with its natural sound which i would like to have a critical audition session, my last audition on Harbeth was last year KLAV show, didn't have a serious listening due to big crowd. As long as the sound produced by speakers is natural and musical, i don't really care about its appearance. My previous speaker was AE Evo One, it's boxy too.

If i have a chance, i would listen to Harbeth critically.

Cheers,

Auronthas

ryder wrote:
dheensay, you can audition the speakers in Tropical Audio in the heart of KL about 10 minutes drive from IJN(I'm only familiar with this landmark). I believe the current prices of Harbeth speakers we're getting here are the best value, sound for pound in comparison to other speakers in the similar price range although listening preferences will vary.

I'm not a dealer by the way, just an avid audio enthusiast and music lover.

Thanks for the info ryder. What sort of price range are we talking about ? I dont think im ready to step up into the world of high end audio just yet...

My resident amp - Primare i20
Resident speakers - epos m5
Resident CDP - el cheapo dvd player
Cables - audioquest indigo + audioquest 2 intercons

dheensay, in the interest of the Harbeth dealer here, it's best that the prices are not revealed to the public. All I can say is prices range from RM5k to RM31k for the top of the line.

You cannot go wrong with harbeths.

I use the Compact 7s in my office system driven by a Mac tube integrated and it puts a smile on my face everytime.

HI Harbeth fans,
I have the priveledge of getting to know Ryder - thanks for the advice on PMC! ..Back on the subject of Harbeth speakers - I went to listen twice to an Harbeth's fan system and in conclusion I bellieve you should audition side with side with an ODEON Orpheus BOOKSHELF (cost 10-12K) German made....a wonderful new generation horn speakers - the transparency , vocal , life -like sound couple with an astouding bass - low and tight for a bookshelf - a revelation !!!!. Unfortunately you need to audition only one place in Malaysia - Audio Image at SS2 Petaling Jaya, Malaysia. The vocal ...a different league. The presentation very life like and easy to drive ...require low power amp...like tubes.

In my personal opinion much better than any bookshelf that cost much more even the Guarneri Homage, JM Lab Utopia or Dynaudio. I diid not get one as now I hava a fever on big big woofers.

Funny you shud bring up the Odeons. I was at the shop buying a piece of equipment and the Odeons were playing. I kept getting distracted from my conversation by the music which i found very engaging. Nice sound. Also liked the Yew veneer finish.

In anycase i ended up with the Harbeth cos I wasnt going to put down hard earned $$$ without trying with my system and in my room. I was told during my first visit ever to Audio Image, "no home auditions". To carry over 100lbs of equipment to the shop for an audition is ridiculous to say the least. My loss, dealers loss? who knows!!! Happy with the Harbeth.

Hi Shanghai, you are just being modest. Thanks for the kind words.

Shanghai is an experienced audio enthusiast(with a deep pocket) that has a pretty high-end system based on Audio Physics Scorpio and are currently looking at some large PMC speakers higher up in the line for his 2nd system, hence he was asking my advice since I own a small PMC bookshelf. I frankly believe if one has the space, room and electronics to match, it is always best to get a speaker that has the biggest drivers. No doubt small quality speakers will sound quite spectacular but in medium to big rooms, speakers with big woofers will be able to give a larger presentation and fuller sound with greater scale, realism and dynamics. That was the reason I have moved on from the PMC which has a 4.5" woofer to the Harbeth which has an 8" woofer apart from the sonic characteristics of the Harbeth that suit my taste.

There are just too many good speakers out there and it's a matter of choosing the right one to suit one's listening taste and preferences(apart from taking care of the pocket). Some will prefer a dynamic and high resolution sound, some will prefer a more neutral and relaxing sound while some will prefer a warm and laidback sound. I have not heard the Odeon Orpheus bookshelf before but if it's better sounding that Guarneri Homage then the speaker must be something special. Anyway similar to Shanghai I also have a thing for big speakers with big drivers now, and that was the reason I have settled on the SHL-5(although I know that Shanghai prefers the sonic attributes of his Audio Physics more).

Some dealers still give home auditions. It depends on the dealer as they may have some terms and conditions. However, if one intends to demo Harbeth speakers, be prepared for some criticism from Sam especially if you own fancy interconnects, speaker cables and power cords. He may suggest that you throw some of these cords away. :-)

Shucks, there was this pair of Harbeths HL Compacts for sale posted yesterday going for less than 3k. Original Compacts before it became the HL C7 I believe. By the time I called his afternoon they're gone. Always wanted a good used pair either this one or the HL5. They're always gone before I can respond to ads.
Oh well, just have to wait.

Just read this thread. What caught my eye was Sam's opinion on Krells. Hahaha.. good ol Sam. Cant really fault him as Alan Shaw is also similarly 'flat earthed'. Should read Alan Shaw's take on bi-wiring, power conditioner/cables and interconnects.

However, one thing is for sure, you really cant go wrong with Harbeths, having owned the HLP3s and now the C7s, they are the most unfussy speakers out there. Consistent performance all the time.
I guess its fair for me to say that having using Harbeths, I am enjoying the music more than the equipment.

Bro sleme, if you ever wanna sell your C7 please let me know. Or if anyone else out there too. Can also consider HL5 if price is right. Cheers

There is an M30 in the threads here. Price a bit steep but good quality speakers nevertheless. I am considering a 2nd one myself, possibly this M30 unless someone beats me to it.

After living with the SHL5 for half a year now my love for this speaker grows stronger each and every day. There were some ups and downs, frustrations in changing amps to match along the way but overall a good experience. Some people might find Harbeths dull and lack dynamics. At one point I felt the same and was searching for the right amp, in fact still searching until now. Then I tried some speakers to give me that excitement I was seeking, the dynamics and extended high frequencies that I thought was lacking in the SHL5. I got all these traits in some speakers but couldn't listen to them at above average volume levels for more than an hour. My ears would hurt and buzz followed by a severe headache. Although I lowered down the volume to below average levels things were not helping as listening fatigue was high with these speakers. I then switched back to the Harbeth and can finally crank up the volume without hurting my ears. I think the extremely low listening fatigue of the Harbeth is its main strength apart from the low coloration and slightly warmer side of neutral sound of the entire line of speakers. Some folks thought the Harbeths are colored though.

Not to say other speakers were not good. All of them were good in their own way. If one intends to listen at prolonged listening sessions at average to high volume levels without listening fatigue, I guess the Harbeths are one of the few that would be able to give you that.

Agreed with Sleme in that most can't go wrong with the Harbeths. They do a lot of things right and very little wrong.

ehad many friends with various harbeth while in UK;My conclusions:

>made For music Lover ,not audiophiles..Harbeth owners spent their money on music ,not cables ,tweak or amps....

2.Harbeth s are 'voiced' in a certain way;they only need cheap copper cables and a decent intergrated amp;if you are using pre-power combo ,it is a waste of money!!!!!!Exposure 2010/3010 or A sugden is ALL you need .really....I know it has become a vogue for Harbeth owners to spend more on the Likes of Lavardin IT,but I think it is money wasted

3.Because Harbeths are voiced in a certain way ,It likes deadened room;forget about diffusors;put as much absorbption as you ca n...

4.Forget about weaks;like footers or stand,it normally make the sound worse

5.Midrange is what gives Harbeth its uniqueness;its midrange in fact bettered magico mini easily.....

6.If you want Harbeth like sound but you want to play them loud ....you should get ATC instead.

here is a good place to hunt for used harbeth....or anything brits...

http://www.exdem.com/

Whoa Tin... that's a lot of sweeping generalisation there in your post. Forgive me but having, "many friends with various harbeth" is not a basis for such wide brush generalisation.

I unfortunately disagree with almost all your observations. Tweaks do make a difference. Amplification does matter, the GIGO principle still applies with Harbeths...

SLEME,

Tweaks for Harbeth?Like what?Certainly not cables for sure......in fact a lot of those cables -expensive ones,would be detrimental to Harbeth performance.....

Certainly GIGO but Harbeth doesn't need much to let them sing,certainly what might be garbage for others will be just fine for Harbeth........Try driving any American made speakers with a Sugden amp,and try again with Harbeth,you will know what I mean....

I saw in a recent issue of a local Hifi quarterly that the HL5 is RM9,600.00. Bargain i think.

tin wrote:SLEME,

Tweaks for Harbeth?Like what?Certainly not cables for sure......in fact a lot of those cables -expensive ones,would be detrimental to Harbeth performance.....

Certainly GIGO but Harbeth doesn't need much to let them sing,certainly what might be garbage for others will be just fine for Harbeth........Try driving any American made speakers with a Sugden amp,and try again with Harbeth,you will know what I mean....

Even these jumpers do have a beneficial effect on Harbeth speakers.

It is good for those contemplating owning a Harbeth to listen for themselves and not be influenced too much by comments here. For instance someone commented that the M30 is "shut-in" and "laidback" and thus didn't like it but later on wanted to buy a pair for himself. Strange indeed.

Harbeth speakers are brilliant. Having owned various models for the past 22 years I have never regretted buying any of them. Different models suit different listening environment , budget and personal taste. They do make you forget about hi fi and let you enjoy the music.... tremendously.

Cheers.

ed wrote:It is good for those contemplating owning a Harbeth to listen for themselves and not be influenced too much by comments here. For instance someone commented that the M30 is "shut-in" and "laidback" and thus didn't like it but later on wanted to buy a pair for himself. Strange indeed.

But we must understand that opinions and preferences can change with time.

ed wrote:Harbeth speakers are brilliant. Having owned various models for the past 22 years I have never regretted buying any of them. Different models suit different listening environment , budget and personal taste. They do make you forget about hi fi and let you enjoy the music.... tremendously.

Cheers.

These much I do agree.

I sent a message to the seller of the M30 last week who happens to be here in the thread as well and didn't get a response. Perplexing indeed since he has replied in this thread. He must have thought I am not a prospective buyer.

Mebbe he decided not to sell after all ?

My point about Harbeth is that they are the least fussy way to hi end;certainly it was meant in a good way...

If you want to invest in Harbeths you have to accept the way the speaker has been voiced;otherwise if you start fiddling with tweaks ,using those megacables you would be wondering what the fuss is all about..

There are better sounding speakers out there,there is no doubt about it.Yup,there are better value speakers too ,but with the rest ,you have to squeeze and tweak ,try and untry before you finally reach the destination..

With Harbeth ,it is easy ; a reasonable source....say a Rega P3, a good British/Kiwi INTERGRATED amp,maybe an exposure or for something that last forever a SUGDEN......using cables that you friends just throw.......No break in.....there you are home ...Musical Nirvana

How much is the selling price for Harbeth P3ESR, SHL-5, Compact 7ES-3 and M30?

You can call Malaysia Harbeth dealer Sam for price detail. Below is what I found from Harbeth official webside:


Name Mr. Sam Chan

Company Tropical Audio (M) SDN BHD

Address 25, Jalan Genting Klang

Setapak

53300 Kuala Lumpur

West Malaysia

Phone + 603 40235484

Fax + 603 77269300 / 40217660

Email tropical_audio@hotmail.com

I'll probably step on a lot of toes with this comment... but why must Harbeth speakers be so ugly?! I know it's the sound that counts, but there are many manufacturers that are able to produce a good looking and good sounding package, so why not Harbeth?

I've equally stepped on a lot of toes when I criticised other gears previously, so don't worry too much about it. Yes, the Harbeths do look a bit ugly and unconventional at first look but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They looked a little ugly to me when I first set my eyes on them but as time goes by I didn't think of that anymore. There are some folks who thought the Harbeths look wonderful and special in their own ways in their natural wood veneer.

There is a reason behind the "ugly" boxes, thin-walled panels and cubic proportions which has been part of Harbeth's BBC tradition throughout the years in giving Harbeth speakers their distinctive sound. I have to admit it was difficult to move from the sleek PMC bookshelf and Sonus Faber Grand Pianos in beautiful black piano finish to the Harbeth at first due to aesthetic reasons. However, the sound I got from the Harbeth soon made me forget about all that as I realised I would never get the quality and performance from my previous speakers or that from other makes costing a few times more.

The best aspect that contributes to the already good value of Harbeth speakers is our Malaysian dealer is able to offer them at the lowest price possible compared to dealers around the world. Most stuff(whatever mid to hi-end brands) are marked up from retail prices but it is the other way round for Harbeth. You wouldn't be surprised how much the speakers are selling in the US and other parts of the world, and yet people are still buying them for their love towards the warm and fresh sound of the Harbeth.

Some say,speakers must look like speakers the way they were first designed....unpretentious. So say i too.

Listening to P3 in office set up. Besides the speakers, the rest of the equipment, amp, cdp and all cables cost less than RM900. No tweaking. Listening to sixties blues band "Canned Heat" right now (productivity up ) and earlier, Schubert Unfinished Symphony (productivity ). Great music.

Ideally, we should have invisible speakers if we really want to be visually and audibly free of the "boxiness". I'm not into flashy gimmicky pretentious looking speakers myself, but Harbeth just looks too fuddy duddy IMHO. Too me, even traditional looking speakers from Proac, ATC and Spendor all look way better than what Harbeth comes out with.

BTW, my partner says my dream speaker Wilson Audio Sophia looks like a tong sampah.

hifikrazy wrote:

BTW, my partner says my dream speaker Wilson Audio Sophia looks like a tong sampah.

Pssst.... my boss Wilson Audion Maxx 3 also look like a RM200,00 tong sampah!

tycham wrote:

hifikrazy wrote:

BTW, my partner says my dream speaker Wilson Audio Sophia looks like a tong sampah.

Pssst.... my boss Wilson Audion Maxx 3 also look like a RM200,00 tong sampah!

I thought it looks more like Transformers, and the Sasha looks like Darth Vader's helmet.