The "$$$ Expensive $$$" Super Snake Oils of the "audiophile" industry

H4S seems abit (too) laid back recently.... time to stir up some spice & controversy and what better way that to create a list of the Hi-Fi Snake Oils which is highly subjective with full of pro and counter arguments.

To start off... i shall fire the first salvo:

Hi-fi brands, big and small all seems to always try their luck to pawn a premium price on otherwise normal or highly dubious claims in the pursuit of "audiophile quality" improvements.

For starters .. this one is from Denon; an "Audiophile Ethernet cable".
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/06/snake-oil-alert/

IMO, Utter bullsh!t to the maximum...

Not if the cable is used for audio signal such as I2S. I2S does not have a standard input/output socket. Some manufacturers use this socket for I2S.

OK .... next up on the list :
Franck Tchang Acoustic Resonators & sugar cubes.

http://www.francktchang.com/acousticresonators.html
http://www.francktchang.com/sugarcubes.html

Voodoo magic from miniature metal cups better suited for a Barbie & Ken doll tea-set.
Also don't forget those small blocks of wood with a drilled hole in it. Perhaps a good sugar substitute for those acoustically diabetic situations.

This must be the next-generation or re-incarnation of Shun Mook tweaks, now that the novelty of the Shun Mook mpingo carrom-men has worn off....

Anyone knows whats the price tag of those Barbie & Ken 10-piece tea set ?

http://www.coconut-audio.com/isotower.htm

Personally this looks a bit weird.




Upsampler 500 Power Accelerator | £48,750

http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/coconut_audio.html

frankly i have become a bit nutty after reading the claims in the coconut audio site.

mugenfoo wrote:OK .... next up on the list :
Franck Tchang Acoustic Resonators & sugar cubes.

http://www.francktchang.com/acousticresonators.html
http://www.francktchang.com/sugarcubes.html

Voodoo magic from miniature metal cups better suited for a Barbie & Ken doll tea-set.
Also don't forget those small blocks of wood with a drilled hole in it. Perhaps a good sugar substitute for those acoustically diabetic situations.

This must be the next-generation or re-incarnation of Shun Mook tweaks, now that the novelty of the Shun Mook mpingo carrom-men has worn off....

Anyone knows whats the price tag of those Barbie & Ken 10-piece tea set ?

You mean these ones hehehehe? Its on a 1 week loan for me to test and review....better not post the review here.

drwho wrote:
Not if the cable is used for audio signal such as I2S. I2S does not have a standard input/output socket. Some manufacturers use this socket for I2S.

if i recall correctly, some manufacturers use the hdmi (not ethernet) connection for I2S.

sflam wrote:

drwho wrote:
Not if the cable is used for audio signal such as I2S. I2S does not have a standard input/output socket. Some manufacturers use this socket for I2S.

if i recall correctly, some manufacturers use the hdmi (not ethernet) connection for I2S.

You are correct again BUT some manufacturers do use RJ45 ethernet socket for their I2S, like my transport.

elhefe wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:OK .... next up on the list :
Franck Tchang Acoustic Resonators & sugar cubes.

http://www.francktchang.com/acousticresonators.html
http://www.francktchang.com/sugarcubes.html

Voodoo magic from miniature metal cups better suited for a Barbie & Ken doll tea-set.
Also don't forget those small blocks of wood with a drilled hole in it. Perhaps a good sugar substitute for those acoustically diabetic situations.

This must be the next-generation or re-incarnation of Shun Mook tweaks, now that the novelty of the Shun Mook mpingo carrom-men has worn off....

Anyone knows whats the price tag of those Barbie & Ken 10-piece tea set ?

You mean these ones hehehehe? Its on a 1 week loan for me to test and review....better not post the review here.

Ya man ... any reviews for this product , i would get ready all the Super Bazooka Rocket Launcher and ICBM missiles ready to blow this junk to kingdom come.

But u can sure share here, how much does a box of that Barbie tea-set costs ?

AS shown in the picture, the basic resonator package which includes:

1. 1 x resonator with copper cup

2. 1 x phase corrector

3. 1 x diffuser

will give you a damage of RM1400....

On a lighter side...

An "Audiophillow" V2.1E, to absorb all the unwanted humms and dings and give you maximum listening pleasure.... while resting your head listening to your favourite music and giving you good and pleasurable support for your head.


Comes in single colour but you can enhance it by covering with your matching cover. But that might cost you an ARM and A LEG...but there is a DIY Route...



Review :

Holding ones head in the right angle to derive maximum listening pleasure and directing the music into the ears while absorbing unwanted frequencies.

wingman wrote:On a lighter side...

An "Audiophillow" V2.1E, to absorb all the unwanted humms and dings and give you maximum listening pleasure.... while resting your head listening to your favourite music and giving you good and pleasurable support for your head.


Comes in single colour but you can enhance it by covering with your matching cover. But that might cost you an ARM and A LEG...but there is a DIY Route...



Review :

Holding ones head in the right angle to derive maximum listening pleasure and directing the music into the ears while absorbing unwanted frequencies.

they should put in the add " Eliminate Unwanted Noise From Bank Manager aka Wife" to boost the sale of this product....

Cheers.....

Actually according to a certain well known speaker designer from the U.K., the ultimate in snake oils are things like Krell, Soulution, Audio Note Ongakus and stuff like that. Amplifiers all sounds alike so when someone pays thru their nose for something like a Soulution or Ongaku, it is all purely in their minds...

I think I know who is he. However, his followers are aplenty. Hot LZ.

htkaki wrote:I think I know who is he. However, his followers are aplenty. Hot LZ.

He just got himself a new follower here.

Who? Which model??

Hot LZ's are fun... especially with an unsecured perimeter, lack of on the ground intel etc... Time for Special Forces man...

WongKN wrote:Actually according to a certain well known speaker designer from the U.K., the ultimate in snake oils are things like Krell, Soulution, Audio Note Ongakus and stuff like that. Amplifiers all sounds alike so when someone pays thru their nose for something like a Soulution or Ongaku, it is all purely in their minds...

I thought his comment, whether you agree or disagree, is to advise against spending too much money on seemingly snake oil products?

Yes, I agree to that which is why I never wrote any disparaging comments. Some people agrees to his view. Some disagree. As long as we can all laugh about it as we are all humans and can accept other's opinions. I tend to disagree with his views (that all amps are alike, and that we cannot hear things like soundstaging from live classical concert) if you are curious.

Actually come to think about it, even about those snake oil products like Shun-Mook, or the hifi coconut, as long as someone really enjoys it... if he/she got the money to blow...

This looks like a Food Critic thread! I am looking forward to taste your cookings.
It is not proper to bash manufacturers without giving them an opportunity to rebut. Frank Chang's demo is always popular at our AV shows and his products are quite widely used in Malaysia. Some of this audiophiles cannot be wrong in using his tweaks. Bashing without substantiation is just like gangsterism!
For the record, I don't have any of Frank Chang tweaks nor do I know him or his local distributor. I strongly feel it is just not fair for such bashing.

Snub Sniper wrote:This looks like a Food Critic thread! I am looking forward to taste your cookings.
It is not proper to bash manufacturers without giving them an opportunity to rebut. Frank Chang's demo is always popular at our AV shows and his products are quite widely used in Malaysia. Some of this audiophiles cannot be wrong in using his tweaks. Bashing without substantiation is just like gangsterism!
For the record, I don't have any of Frank Chang tweaks nor do I know him or his local distributor. I strongly feel it is just not fair for such bashing.

You are right...it is not fair to make sweeping statements disparage such tweaks, when there are people who can attest to identifying sonic differences.

Obviously ... some of you incl. the admin wants to play nice and lovey dovey for all. Fine for you guys. If some of you wanna pay Rm1400 for a bunch of novelties, fine as well. This could be for whatever sonic effect could just as well be achieved by hanging (or removing) a bunch of curtains or paintings of the wall. It is not so much as to whether these tweaks work or not, but more the PRICE that they are being charged for.
There are many well known tweakers who uses many exotic materials in sonic experimentation incl crystals and various stone materials for sound tuning and with audible results as well.

But RM1400 for a miniature Barbie tea-cup set made out of supposedly acoustically exotic metals ? Go figure.


Just remember, one need not be a cook to criticize the cooking.

PhDs are earned in the most critical Viva sessions lest the doctorate's worth is akin to a mail order degree.

On the same line, it is the product(s) that stands the test of time and the critics of many so that it may evolve into something really special, or just fade away as the obvious frauds it may be.

I leave one last item from the snake-oil Snake Oil list for your counter-arguments & defense... (could add more as well, but since this is obviously causing too much discomfort to some of you people, this would be the last one for the thread).
The Argent "Room Lens". Another attempt at throwing scientific terms aimed at confusing the lay-consumer with such words like "resonator" (seems to be a favourite among scammers) and "Helmholtz".

http://www.stereotimes.com/acc051199.shtml

One could very well build something similar out of PVC pipes from the local hardware shop, and even "improving" on this design by drilling various holes of differing diameters into it, filling the pipes with certain amount of sand, shift it all about the room.... etc etc etc to further "tune" its effectiveness! But, heck, some might feel its better to just pay that USD 1195 and just let the brain do all the imagination! Ahh, the convenience of the almighty dollar (or Euro or Ringgit)...

Oh, BTW, don't bother clicking on the link to the mfg website... the company has long since disappeared into the night after a brief hit-n-run job on a handful of gullible consumers (and perhaps reviewers as well).

When you cough out lots of dough your brain kinda force your ears to hear improvements ..

mugenfoo, for the record I agree with you about the Acoustic Resonator thingies. I have heard them demo'ed a couple of times and I am completely unconvinced.

mofaz, I think the phrase you are looking for is "effort justification paradigm" ...

There will always be critics who are more vocal than others. Mugenfoo is clearly very open with his thoughts and outspoken and usually does it with a reason. Obviously there will be unhappy folks since some(or a lot of) people use the Acoustic Resonator stuff in their homes.

It is almost similar to folks who regard all amplifiers to sound similar. Fortunately there are not many of these individuals here (PinkFish has got dozens). In other words, exotic amplifiers such as Krell, Naim, Audio Research etc. which are considered as snake oils often get bashed a lot too since they are deemed to sound similar to a Sony amp and yet come with a high price tag. The same situation applies to all other gear or accessories and not only Acoustic Resonators.

At the end of the day, people can choose to use their money in whatever ways they want, paying for snake-oils(and that include audiophile-grade equipment for those who consider all amplifiers sound the same). Disparaging statements will evidently create some indignation and anger not only to owners but those who are in the business.

What about the plastic thing that prevent the speaker cables from touching the floor ..anyone using them ? A cheap any effective upgrade is to put a heavy object eg slab of marble on top of your cd player ..tighten the bass ..

I am game for cheap but effective tweaks even though people may regard
them as crap. I briefly stopped at the Acoustic Resonators booth in the
hifi show 2 years ago when Frank was displaying his products to the
audience. Couldn't really figure out what was happening and how the
sound has changed when he moved the cute little bells around the front
wall. The environment was probably not ideal. Having said that I would
not have considered their stuff.

As for the plastic/ceramic cups that elevate speaker cables off the floor, I wager they will bring some improvements to the sound. Just didn't bother to try them. I believe all small tweaks will bring some audible effects, either subtle of significant(mostly subtle at best). It's a matter of whether it is a worthwhile effort to gain a small improvement, and the money that some folks are willing to fork out for these tweaks.

ryder wrote:I believe all small tweaks will bring some audible effects, either subtle of significant(mostly subtle at best).

To clarify things, the statement above does not apply to some "truly" snake-oil tweaks from the likes of Machina Dynamica, although I have not tried them. In my clear mind and consciousness I wouldn't even bother to look at them. For instance, this jar of brilliant pebbles that will fetch up to RM5k or more..



Some folks suggested to pick up small pebbles on the beach, paint them with fancy colours and fill them into an empty peanut butter jar. All for almost free, and they will most likely do nothing to the sound.

Due to numerous complaints from forum members, I believe, Audiogon had refrained Machina Dynamica from publishing their ads in the classifieds section. They used to promote and sell their products on the 'Gon several years back but are now nowhere to be seen except in their dedicated website.

mugenfoo wrote:
It is not so much as to whether these tweaks work or not, but more the PRICE that they are being charged for.
There are many well known tweakers who uses many exotic materials in sonic experimentation incl crystals and various stone materials for sound tuning and with audible results as well.

OOppps! Silly me, I must have misread earlier. If it is the high price we are talking about, the Post Title should be more appropriately titled as Expensive Oil not SNAKE OIL.

mofaz wrote:When you cough out lots of dough your brain kinda force your ears to hear improvements ..

On the contrary, using cheap solution also, your brain will force your ears to hear the difference just because one would not spend money on something that is more expensive.

For example, blutack...cheapest solution to so call sound improvement. Spend thousands of RM to buy hifi and in the end, it boils down to a RM 0.50/strip of blutack for sound improvement. Why not save the money in the initial place and buy mini compo?

Hi...

Everyone is entitled to their views or the snake oilssss they intent to purchase or have. The Positive exchange of views is healthy and makes this forum lively. But lately....

Personally, never entered the snake Oil Kingdom with the $$$ value out of my range but have gone the DIY Route or my version of Snake Oil... which primarily fits my budget and ears. Am i Happy ...most definetly.

Would also agree with RYDER / Mugen's views positive criticism is good and makes the designer improve on his/ her product to meet the short fall.

Not all consumers are gullible too. So its a two side of the coins view that one has to take.

Lighten up and have fun. Life is tooo short.

cheers

I believe that any changes made to your system either adding or removing miscellaneous stuff like resonators, buying a new amp or even isolation feet, MAY provide you with a different in sound. But not everyone may be able to hear the DIFFERENCE.

As for the price tag, lets go back to the ladies lah. Why buy RM5000 Coach handbag when you can buy RM100 Sg Wang handbag? Lots of reason people would spend certain amount of money may it be for achievement, rewarding yourself, truly convinced of its effect or simply damn kaya and dont know what to do with the money.

On FC's resonators, I have been using it for a week now.

1. I can hear the difference when moving the circle diffusor higher or lower on the back wall.

2. Cant hear the difference when moving the copper cup

3. Will I spend RM1400 on them? Most probably not. Why? Because I didnt go to the hifi shop to improve my system as I am already happy on how it sounds at the moment. Went there to buy LPs But because was requested to try it out, said to myself why not?

Snub Sniper wrote:OOppps! Silly me, I must have misread earlier. If it is the high price we are talking about, the Post Title should be more appropriately titled as Expensive Oil not SNAKE OIL.

Good point. I have amended the title to reflect the "expensive price of..." as such.

maybe i should start marketing my special turntable plinth and wooden blocks...

elhefe wrote:I believe that any changes made to your system either adding or removing miscellaneous stuff like resonators, buying a new amp or even isolation feet, MAY provide you with a different in sound. But not everyone may be able to hear the DIFFERENCE.

As for the price tag, lets go back to the ladies lah. Why buy RM5000 Coach handbag when you can buy RM100 Sg Wang handbag? Lots of reason people would spend certain amount of money may it be for achievement, rewarding yourself, truly convinced of its effect or simply damn kaya and dont know what to do with the money.

On FC's resonators, I have been using it for a week now.

1. I can hear the difference when moving the circle diffusor higher or lower on the back wall.

2. Cant hear the difference when moving the copper cup

3. Will I spend RM1400 on them? Most probably not. Why? Because I didnt go to the hifi shop to improve my system as I am already happy on how it sounds at the moment. Went there to buy LPs But because was requested to try it out, said to myself why not?

If you are keen to try something that is far better proven and won't cost an arm or a leg, consider taking a trip to Hiway laser and buying a piece of the Styrofoam diffusors. They are locally made, and are a copy-in-principle of the famous RPG "Skyline Diffusor".
2 ft by 2 ft. U can stick it on the wall, or ceiling with dbl-sided tape or blutack... free for you to move it about. Costs less than RM180 a piece. Simple and proven textbook example of a working acoustic diffusor.

JediSavant wrote:maybe i should start marketing my special turntable plinth and wooden blocks...

LATTE my good man.... Light Affordable Turn Table Enhancer... Do it do it....

mugenfoo wrote:

elhefe wrote:I believe that any changes made to your system either adding or removing miscellaneous stuff like resonators, buying a new amp or even isolation feet, MAY provide you with a different in sound. But not everyone may be able to hear the DIFFERENCE.

As for the price tag, lets go back to the ladies lah. Why buy RM5000 Coach handbag when you can buy RM100 Sg Wang handbag? Lots of reason people would spend certain amount of money may it be for achievement, rewarding yourself, truly convinced of its effect or simply damn kaya and dont know what to do with the money.

On FC's resonators, I have been using it for a week now.

1. I can hear the difference when moving the circle diffusor higher or lower on the back wall.

2. Cant hear the difference when moving the copper cup

3. Will I spend RM1400 on them? Most probably not. Why? Because I didnt go to the hifi shop to improve my system as I am already happy on how it sounds at the moment. Went there to buy LPs But because was requested to try it out, said to myself why not?

If you are keen to try something that is far better proven and won't cost an arm or a leg, consider taking a trip to Hiway laser and buying a piece of the Styrofoam diffusors. They are locally made, and are a copy-in-principle of the famous RPG "Skyline Diffusor".
2 ft by 2 ft. U can stick it on the wall, or ceiling with dbl-sided tape or blutack... free for you to move it about. Costs less than RM180 a piece. Simple and proven textbook example of a working acoustic diffusor.

Bro MF,

First of all, I rather spend my valuable time listening to music rather than trying out all sorts of different hifi enhancer. As mentioned, only trying the resonators because was offered to me, not because I am going around seeking the higher power in hifi hehehehe....already happy with the set up I have.

Secondly, how do you define that one item works better than the other? Based on personal experience of listening to the effects of both items, technical explanation or write up or based on review?

My ultimate preference would always be personal experience (trusting your ears) but like to be supported by a technical write up or review.

Heck, no matter how cheap one item can be, if I dont hear the difference, I will still not buy it or apply it to my system....for example blutack...I cant hear even a small difference using blutack, so no way its getting on my set up eventough its cheap like hell.

But the LATTE definitely made a difference...

JediSavant wrote:But the LATTE definitely made a difference...

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS....that is based on our co-joint hearing hehehehehe....no reviews no technical write ups hehehehe...

....best kept secret in Boleh-Hifi-Land!!!....

JediSavant wrote:....best kept secret in Boleh-Hifi-Land!!!....

Patent patent....file for a patent....



www.latteisgoodforyou.com.my......hhhmmmm

For those of us who are not keen to spend our hard earned money on the costly tweaks try this as an alternative to Frank Chang's resonator. Use two small size tubes, eg 6922 or 12AX7 and placed them on top of your loudspeakers. You will hear the difference, whether you like sonic change or not is another matter. Cheap snake oil

Dr... do you need a special mounting? or just place them side on? or on a small slip mat in case they roll off 'cos the speaker goyang too much when listening to 'Pump Up the Jam'?...

JediSavant wrote:Dr... do you need a special mounting? or just place them side on? or on a small slip mat in case they roll off 'cos the speaker goyang too much when listening to 'Pump Up the Jam'?...

Just let the tube pins sit on the top of the speaker. No Blutag, let the tube resonate freely. You could also try placing another one at the center of the front wall, where the singer mouth is located. For this you need a small bracket stuck to the wall.
Please report back on your findings.

elhefe wrote:AS shown in the picture, the basic resonator package which includes:

1. 1 x resonator with copper cup

2. 1 x phase corrector

3. 1 x diffuser

will give you a damage of RM1400....

Hmmm... I'll try and see if my mother's Noritake tea set sounds any good. If it does sound good... RM2000 anyone??? Finely crafted in Japan...

Poole Pottery from Eng-gur-land much better...

Or 100 year old Zhu-Ni purple clay Chinese tea pot....

DrWho wrote:

JediSavant wrote:Dr... do you need a special mounting? or just place them side on? or on a small slip mat in case they roll off 'cos the speaker goyang too much when listening to 'Pump Up the Jam'?...

Just let the tube pins sit on the top of the speaker. No Blutag, let the tube resonate freely. You could also try placing another one at the center of the front wall, where the singer mouth is located. For this you need a small bracket stuck to the wall.
Please report back on your findings.

I just sat thru two rounds of Joe Bonamassa's 'Dust Bowl' track and the tubes on top of the speaker didn't do anything... I don't really have a front wall, cos then I might have to blu-tack the tube to the TV....

If anything the sound is less dense, less body.... but then again, maybe got snake oil in my ears...

Oh shit, the tubes were lying flat, now i've placed them on their pin ends... standing proud... report back in a minute.... or 5....