The "$$$ Expensive $$$" Super Snake Oils of the "audiophile" industry

DrWho wrote:For those of us who are not keen to spend our hard earned money on the costly tweaks try this as an alternative to Frank Chang's resonator. Use two small size tubes, eg 6922 or 12AX7 and placed them on top of your loudspeakers. You will hear the difference, whether you like sonic change or not is another matter. Cheap snake oil

Now this one I've heard first hand and yes, I heard a difference especially in piano recordings. Try and you'll hear it yourself. No bull.

And I also heard that upside down spike thingy. Moving it forward/backwards by just one mm makes the midrange sound thicker/thinner. Not imagining it I swear. Strange but true!!!

JediSavant wrote:Oh shit, the tubes were lying flat, now i've placed them on their pin ends... standing proud... report back in a minute.... or 5....

Jedi, you can stop right there, it won't make a difference in your system because your system is not sensitive enough... And as long as you plan to keep that Holfi Audis, things can only get worse for you...



No, no, no... I'm just kidding!!! I love the Holfi Audis. When I sold my valve monoblocks I fell into valve withdrawal depression and the Holfi Audis kept me sane. Love that amp to bits.

i'm running Exposure 2010s2 now...

...and the Audis will never leave my home as it's a family heirloom...

Yeah, a really beautiful piece that Audis. The cherry wood fascia was made for my Minima Amators. I do regret selling it sometimes...

How Jedi, hear any difference with valves erect???

We should let this thread continue and prosper ! Everyone have been participating and there has been no name calling nor any insults thrown around. Lots of great sharing has been done. In fact from what I can see, the thread has suddenly grown alive ! So many thanks to the great master shit-stirrer MF ! Kudos ! So let's just continue !

And to add my own shit-stirring, about the ladies and their handbags. recently for some reason, I sat down to research on how to differentiate an original LV handbag from one of the countless copies. Because of this, I now have an appreciation for why LV handbags are so f**king bl**dy expensive. What I can see is that they really waste a lot of materials because of the need to make everything symmetrical and perfect. There are lots of fine details to an original LV handbag as compared to the cost cutting necessary to maintain the affordable price of a copy. Even amongst the copies there are different grades and as the grade improves (and the price goes up to approach an original handbag price), the same kind of workmanship requirements starts to apply. Of course I did find that the name-brand also adds some degree of mark-up. But in the end, I discovered that much like how a high-end hifi equipment like Krell, Audio Research, Soulution, Audio Note Ongaku, Magico, etc are so finely hand-made, the same applies to the ladies toys as well.

Sometimes audio enthusiasts do go to the extreme in improving their systems isn't it? So now there is a new trick of placing used tubes on top of speakers and on the front wall. No offense, although the sound may improve with these tubes placed at strategic locations on top of speakers and on walls, it may look a bit awkward, at least to me, especially tubes with rusted pins. More so when the system is in the living room. To each his own I guess.

The crystals that Jo-Ki uses on his LS3/5a should be a better substitute by providing a more aesthetically pleasing view, although sonically may be different.

Or the classy and beautiful Acoustic resonators. Just the looks of it will elevate the musical enjoyment.. That may be the reason people consider them.

Just my opinion.

Ok, I tried with the tubes, I really tried...

But I need more time to evaluate... the highs seemed clearer... cymbals and high hats...

Voices and piano... hmmm, need quiter music to evaluate those aspects, Blues Rock is all about power, but there was no marked improvement in definition overall.

WongKN wrote:We should let this thread continue and prosper ! Everyone have been participating and there has been no name calling nor any insults thrown around. Lots of great sharing has been done. In fact from what I can see, the thread has suddenly grown alive ! So many thanks to the great master shit-stirrer MF ! Kudos ! So let's just continue !

.... But in the end, I discovered that much like how a high-end hifi equipment like Krell, Audio Research, Soulution, Audio Note Ongaku, Magico, etc are so finely hand-made, the same applies to the ladies toys as well.

Sifu, should be 'accessories"... toys may imply something else

Anyway, another BS from Coconut Audio... these Swedish have fetish for rocks I suppose...
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1321677633

Should give your 'vibra-portals' a good shake.. The details are silky and sparkly, the background extremely black and 3 dimensional, the bass strong and textured, and the midrange sweet and organic. It gives a great listening experience. It feels like you listen to music in an alien space ship!

Yeah, I found a new hobby as well. Collecting vintage LV storage chests and trunks. Bound in leather and ready to strap onto the rear of your Ferrari Dino for a weekend at the Alps.

Ok, the Ferrari is beyond me but the trunk does suppress some bass boom in my music room. Got to stuff it full of blankets though. Also works great as a beautiful coffee table too.

WongKN wrote:We should let this thread continue and prosper ! Everyone have been participating and there has been no name calling nor any insults thrown around. Lots of great sharing has been done. In fact from what I can see, the thread has suddenly grown alive ! So many thanks to the great master shit-stirrer MF ! Kudos ! So let's just continue !

And to add my own shit-stirring, about the ladies and their handbags. recently for some reason, I sat down to research on how to differentiate an original LV handbag from one of the countless copies. Because of this, I now have an appreciation for why LV handbags are so f**king bl**dy expensive. What I can see is that they really waste a lot of materials because of the need to make everything symmetrical and perfect. There are lots of fine details to an original LV handbag as compared to the cost cutting necessary to maintain the affordable price of a copy. Even amongst the copies there are different grades and as the grade improves (and the price goes up to approach an original handbag price), the same kind of workmanship requirements starts to apply. Of course I did find that the name-brand also adds some degree of mark-up. But in the end, I discovered that much like how a high-end hifi equipment like Krell, Audio Research, Soulution, Audio Note Ongaku, Magico, etc are so finely hand-made, the same applies to the ladies toys as well.

Exactly my point, there must be a reason why one item cost thousands...and some item cost hundreds....

One manufacturer who says everything sounds the same, its merely doing reverse phsychology so that one will purchase his product in fact. If all amps sounds the same, buy the cheapest lah...no brainer then.

Same goes to other accessories....buy if you have tested it with your own ears...and appreciate the difference it makes...and compare it with how much you are willing to pay for it....if it does not do anythiing to your system...dont bother...

But firstly, add things only if you are not satisfied with what you hear from your system now...If everything is already your cup of tea....then stop adding accessories...and just listen to music....

bimmerman wrote:

elhefe wrote:AS shown in the picture, the basic resonator package which includes:

1. 1 x resonator with copper cup

2. 1 x phase corrector

3. 1 x diffuser

will give you a damage of RM1400....

Hmmm... I'll try and see if my mother's Noritake tea set sounds any good. If it does sound good... RM2000 anyone??? Finely crafted in Japan...

Dont forget to try with IKEA pots and pans as well....

bimmerman wrote:Yeah, I found a new hobby as well. Collecting vintage LV storage chests and trunks. Bound in leather and ready to strap onto the rear of your Ferrari Dino for a weekend at the Alps.

Ok, the Ferrari is beyond me but the trunk does suppress some bass boom in my music room. Got to stuff it full of blankets though. Also works great as a beautiful coffee table too.

I have found the same result using and old camphor storage trunk as coffee table / bass trap. I only use old towels in the trunk for damping. New towels are not pliant enough, and I believe the synthetic fibres are detrimental to SQ.

Wah, lots of people have fetish with cups now. I wonder if we can tune the sound signature by using different types and brands of cups. If we use plastic cups from children's toy set, maybe the sound will become 'plasticky' and if we use cups from a super expensive bone china tea set from UK, maybe the sound will be very 'refined' and 'british' ? Anyone thought of trying out beer mugs ? It could make rock sound damn good you know.

Do you have balls? If yes, you are in for a treat. Ball bearings, I mean. Get hold of some steel ball bearings from about 7mm to 15mm diameter size. These are sold at car spare parts or industrial supplies shops. The ball bearings are used to repair worn out industrial bearing.
Place a couple on top of your equipment chassis. on slots etc so that they don't roll off. Too many will over damp the vibration and make the sound, sound dead. One, two at most three on each equipment.
Those who have balls should try this tweak

Actually better still (in the sense that it makes you spend more money ), I am sure many of you guys would have seen photos of high end listening rooms. A number of these rooms actually spots real musical instruments. Those are not used for decor but rather it is believed that putting real musical instruments in a listening room will improve the accuracy of its sound. The theory is that if you sell your bekside to buy that stradivari violin, then you put it into the listening room. Now you put on your favourite classical music piece, CD or LP or digital file or whatever. Heifetz playing a violin concerto using a stradivarius. If you system is accurate enough, the sound of the violin coming out from it will excite that -real- stradivarius which will now resonate in harmony. This then reinforces the richness of the reproduced music, making it sound much more lifelike.

If we want to keep our bekside intact, we can put a normal violin there instead, of course but we have to expect the music won't be so rich lar. Snake oil always sounds best when it is super expensive !

Cavert : back many years ago, I have tried putting my classical guitar in between my Spendor SP2/2 speakers and played John Williams on Rodrigo's Concerto De Aranjuez. My classical guitar is supposed to be hand-made but in the end is still a normal guy's classcial guitar la costing only RM600 when I bought it new around 20 years ago. I'll confess I thought the guitar sounded richer and more lifelike from the system. But back then I was younger - and more 'susceptible'...

That's why I have my drum set and guitars in my hifi room LOL.....hahahaha

sigh....
better take my daughter's 'kapok' brand guitar and put somewhere else when the new music room is ready...
No wonder i had a distaste for 6 string unplugged guitar during the dying days of my old music room.

LOL!!

bAL

Ah.... the legendary 'kapok' guitar. I remember how it was the staple brand used in my student days. Brings back nice memories...

Peter Belt & Rainbow Foil

http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/newsletter/The_PWB_Spring_Newsletter_2011.pdf

Actually KN, if you excite anything to its resonant frequency, it will vibrate and produce sound. The only question is whether you like the effect. No snake oil about putting a musical instrument in the room, because you will definitely hear it if it starts vibrating at its resonant frequency.

It is not in the same class of snake oil as audiophile products that cost a lot of money but don't do anything. Examples: anything from Machina Dynamica, LessLoss Blackbody, Shakti Hallographs, and the aforementioned Frank Tchang resonators.

lets face it, they are cheap grade snake oil and expensive snake oil to cater to the elite few.

whether its snake oil, just give it a try. if its right and imporve the sound, its yr luck. if not (damage to gears ?), dont sue the one who give the idea.

i think the greatest $$$Expensive$$$ super snake oils of the audiophile industry are not the resonators or vibration dampers but the interconnects, power cords and speaker cables that cost tens of thousands of ringgit.

Cables like anything else, have to be auditioned. There are cables that make a difference. Dealers just have to know how to audition them for customers. Otherwise, one would just have to rely on the kindness of strangers or well-meaning friends.

sflam wrote:i think the greatest $$$Expensive$$$ super snake oils of the audiophile industry are not the resonators or vibration dampers but the interconnects, power cords and speaker cables that cost tens of thousands of ringgit.

Agree.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I've tried using 6C33 on speakers playing AC/DC 'For Those About To Rock (We Salute You)'. I swear Phil Rudd's cymbals has a certain 'ring' to it . The canon shots we quite 'real', in a sense that after the first shot one of the tubes fell and crashed! Need to get more 6C33s

I on the other hand, have actual first hand experience of how speaker cables DO make a difference, a HUGE difference. Thus my strong belief in equipments and things like interconnects and power cables.

Sflam, rocketman,

In all honesty, do you really believe there is no difference between numerous brands of speaker cables, power cords etc? And in your current set up, you are using the power cord that came with your unit and for speaker wires, the red and black thin wires?

This is a sincere question as I have come across a few ppl whom is a keen believer that all these accesories do not make a different but will never reveal what they use. I was once a true believer as well but after I heard how a few cables and cords performed, I was converted.

elhefe you can count me as someone who does not believe in audiophile power cords I believe in interconnects and speaker cable but it stops there!

WongKN wrote:Ah.... the legendary 'kapok' guitar. I remember how it was the staple brand used in my student days. Brings back nice memories...

Factually, its simply the most affordable box guitar for its intended purpose, just like buying a cheap pair of useable reading glasses.

WongKK wrote:elhefe you can count me as someone who does not believe in audiophile power cords I believe in interconnects and speaker cable but it stops there!

thanks wongkk, so for power cords, are u using the one that came with the unit?

Yeah, using standard power cable. I have one aftermarket cable, and that's it.

elhefe wrote:Sflam, rocketman,

In all honesty, do you really believe there is no difference between numerous brands of speaker cables, power cords etc? And in your current set up, you are using the power cord that came with your unit and for speaker wires, the red and black thin wires?

This is a sincere question as I have come across a few ppl whom is a keen believer that all these accesories do not make a different but will never reveal what they use. I was once a true believer as well but after I heard how a few cables and cords performed, I was converted.

Hi bro,
My power cable : Kettle/computer power cable
Interconnect : DIY western electric (RM 30/pair) and Quad
Speaker cable : Western electric 22 gauge and "transformer" cable (RM 1 per foot run)
Yes. I couldnt tell the diff when swithching cables esp power cables in my system. I have written about my experience before in this forum under a different thread (forgot which one, all I remember was one of the forumers said that I have accumulated a lot of wax in my ears).
Latest experience was a friend brought over his Kaptivator and I still couldnt tell the diff between this expensive cable and my kettle cable.

Yeah, the kapok guitar was in the same league as chinese 'arrow' pens, bata shoes and so forth. But please don't misunderstand me. I really enjoyed playing my kapok back in those days.

My experience with power cords was all subjective. In that I could hear the improvements but that is all 'in my head' so to speak.

With speaker cables however, and I believe I did tell the story before of how many years ago I once changed speaker cables and when I played afterwards something on a shelf started vibrating due to the stronger bass coming out from the speakers. It was totally unexpected but was something physically real and it gave me confidence on my own hearing ability after that.

power cord dont make a difference ?

Perhaps some QRT, QV2, Hydra, sound application, Orb will? or snake oil again ?

Well, let me put it this way. I was chatting to an audio engineer about how power cords can make a difference. His reply: it can't possibly deliver more current, because your current is limited by what your wall socket can deliver, and having a big power cord won't make a difference. It can't be less resistance, because otherwise you should hear a difference with shorter power cords. Therefore the only thing a power cord might do would be filtering. And you don't need filtering if you already have clean power, or very good power supplies in your equipment. And ... why spend thousands of dollars on a power cord just for filtering? Why not plug your power cable into a cheap filter network and be done with it?

JediSavant wrote:Cables like anything else, have to be auditioned. There are cables that make a difference. Dealers just have to know how to audition them for customers. Otherwise, one would just have to rely on the kindness of strangers or well-meaning friends.

The difference could be better or worse. It is about system matching.

Kindness of strangers or well-meaning friends.... hmmm.. the friend that keeps depleting your wallet as well as your bank account for the enjoyment of hi-fi?

kakibook wrote:power cord dont make a difference ?

This is another hot LZ

123_rocketman wrote:

elhefe wrote:Sflam, rocketman,

In all honesty, do you really believe there is no difference between numerous brands of speaker cables, power cords etc? And in your current set up, you are using the power cord that came with your unit and for speaker wires, the red and black thin wires?

This is a sincere question as I have come across a few ppl whom is a keen believer that all these accesories do not make a different but will never reveal what they use. I was once a true believer as well but after I heard how a few cables and cords performed, I was converted.

Hi bro,
My power cable : Kettle/computer power cable
Interconnect : DIY western electric (RM 30/pair) and Quad
Speaker cable : Western electric 22 gauge and "transformer" cable (RM 1 per foot run)
Yes. I couldnt tell the diff when swithching cables esp power cables in my system. I have written about my experience before in this forum under a different thread (forgot which one, all I remember was one of the forumers said that I have accumulated a lot of wax in my ears).
Latest experience was a friend brought over his Kaptivator and I still couldnt tell the diff between this expensive cable and my kettle cable.

Thanks rocketman....kudos to you for withstanding venomous snake oil....Its good to know that you made your decision based on your hearing and not based on some technical write up or review.

Bottomline is, if you are happy with the sound you have now, stick to it.

I was for more than 10 years been using stock power cable, RM 1.00/metre speaker cable (cheaper than yours) and freebies IC.

However, when I first tested the entry level QED interconnect, I could already hear some different. THen when I changed to QED Conduit power cable, I could hear the difference as well....and also the speaker cable.

These are all sub RM500 stuff.

Until recently, Siltech came into the picture, I was happy with QED. But with Siltech, I found even better sonic delivery.

The thing is, its not always about how expensive the stuff is. I compared Siltech (sub RM2000) with an ASI (sub RM5000), I still prefer the Siltech.

Nevertheless, I put a limit of RM2000 for any IC/power cord/speaker cable. Beyond that, it starts to get a bit ridiculous in comparison with my set up.

Speaking on powercords, I was once a big believer and have owned a number of brands such as VDH Mainstream, XLO, Supra etc. The first thing I do when getting a new component is to ditch out stock powercords. One day I decided to pick up my cheap kettle look stock power cables and swap between the thick VDH Mainstream for comparison. To be honest, while my heart desperately wants to convince me but my ears tell me there is No difference. If there is any, I believe it will be very subtle and the price paid did not commensurate with real performance we expect. And now I am a happy chap using the original stock powercord which is also recommended by the manufacturer.

However, I can detect an appreciable difference in power conditioner or distributor. Sometimes a difference does not necessary means for a better, to each its own. Anyway I prefer to use a passive type.

I agreed with elhefe, IC, powercords, speakers cables, power conditioners are all considered as accessories. They should not be more than 20% of the system cost.

WongKK wrote:Actually KN, if you excite anything to its resonant frequency, it will vibrate and produce sound. The only question is whether you like the effect. No snake oil about putting a musical instrument in the room, because you will definitely hear it if it starts vibrating at its resonant frequency.

It is not in the same class of snake oil as audiophile products that cost a lot of money but don't do anything. Examples: anything from Machina Dynamica, LessLoss Blackbody, Shakti Hallographs, and the aforementioned Frank Tchang resonators.

Since this thread is so alive and kicking ... i am therefore tempted to add another to the uber duper snake-oil list... Steinmusic H2 Harmonizers & Magic Stones.

"The H2 stimulates
the oxygen's molecules in a way that
improves its viscosity thus allowing it act
much more effectively." The info that
arrived with the H2 reads, in part, "The
basic principle is similar to a catalyser.
Technically it works with capacitively
activated crystals. The air molecules inside
of the listening room are jogged through the
loudspeaker and thus transmit the sound
information. In order to elongate the air
molecules from their rest position it is
necessary to spend energy first. It is much
easier to move them if once moving. This
phenomenon is similar to static and dynamic
friction. To force a heavy piece of rock to
move is not an easy task. But if it is once
moving it can be much easier shifted
further. The Steinmusic Harmonizer is
working very similar, but rather at a level
of ethereal states...."

Steinmusic
Magic Stones are 1 1/2" triangular shaped
polycarbonate “stones” designed to be used
in conjunction with the H2 Harmonizer and
purporting to intensify its effectiveness.
They are ideally located at about 5-feet off
the floor on the wall between your
loudspeakers; behind your listening seat; on
the ceiling (if possible, between your
listening seat and the loudspeakers); on the
edges of the loudspeakers - above the
tweeters - and lastly, in the corners of
your room.

Aiyaaaa...so small lah the fonts....

sflam wrote:i think the greatest $$$Expensive$$$ super snake oils of the audiophile industry are not the resonators or vibration dampers but the interconnects, power cords and speaker cables that cost tens of thousands of ringgit.

Maybe u can share with us here, how much does an FM Acoustics interconnect or powercord sells for...

Found the cheapest tweak ever.........

I really like funky colored interconnects....

Walaoweh.... Them FM Acoustic gear look pretty expensive indeed... Made in cuckoo clock land... Aka Rolex land, aka Patek Philippe land....

Hi rocketman,

Sad to hear that ur system have no different between the Jps n stock powercord. There must be something really wrong in ur system that's why ur k-horn got no bass. I'm sure if u do invest some money on ur powercord, interconnect n speaker cable, with ur golden ratio room ur system will sound wonderful.

Who say powercord make no different? Interconnect make no different? As well as speaker cable?
Do a little test, just ' terbalik' one of ur interconnect see got different?

Cheers,

noodle88 wrote:Hi rocketman,

Sad to hear that ur system have no different between the Jps n stock powercord. There must be something really wrong in ur system that's why ur k-horn got no bass. I'm sure if u do invest some money on ur powercord, interconnect n speaker cable, with ur golden ratio room ur system will sound wonderful.

Who say powercord make no different? Interconnect make no different? As well as speaker cable?
Do a little test, just ' terbalik' one of ur interconnect see got different?

Cheers,

Hi Bro,
Your news is out dated a bit,
Friend and I repositioned the speakers and we got bass now.
I got deeper bass when changed to Quad II mono with cheapo power cord.
Still need fine tuning ie to find the best speakers position.
Anyway, I really tried and wanted to hear the difference with change of power cords but to no avail. I resign to the fact that power cord doesnt work for my system. Hey, saves me a lot of money man..

Well my personal experience on the matter of powercords is yes, they do make a difference. In digital sources as well as in amplification.

The skeptic in me did not allow me to "waste money" on powercords and I stayed away for years. Then one day I tried it and was totally taken by surprise. The difference was not the least bit subtle.

But for some strange reason, I've found that powercords don't make such a big difference on my valve amplification.

I currently have a pair of 300B humping a pair of 211 output tubes, pumping out 50watts and it sounds good, well stunning in fact with just kettle cord. Strange but true!

bimmerman sounds as if you have a Cary CAD-805?

You're a genius WongKK, Cary 805 it is!!!

It's on long term loan until it gets sold. Haha. I kept it in a corner of my room for half a year, not wanting to move it due to the sheer heft and bulk of it but decided to give it a shot 2 nights ago after a pint of Guiness. I must say i'm getting to like it very much. If there's one complaint I have about it is bass. You know what i'm talking about. But it's overall qualities really make up for everything and then some...

I don't even have a proper preamp to drive it and i'm using my Krell Kav-300i as a pre. But the results really surprised me. I never expected the transistor/valve hybrid pairing to be any good but the Krell really is able to pass on the sonic goodies to the Cary. And I think the bass happy nature of the Krell brings the bass back into balance even.

I'm gobsmacked!!!