Turntable Options - looking for an antidote

elhefe wrote:I knew it that one of these days, someone will spot that I do not have a turntable.



I am interested but still concern about the LPs availability for the the type of music I listen to.



Yup. One point to good hifi rack.

Lemme offer another counter-perspective. Lately i have been able to get most of my stuff on vinyl. Greenday, Coldplay, Lady Gaga, Weezer .... all no problem.

But very recently, I have also gone an acquired a full blown 24/192 gadget, I am now scratching my head where to find most of my "mainstream" material on 24/192. All that's available on 24/192 is some obscure Norwegian band playing some old fart classical score and stuff.

I guess I should have waited for Guns n' Roses (actually more like big labels like Geffen) to release 24/192 stuff before sinking an obscene amount of cash into a 24/192 digital toy. But the saving grace is that i manage to buy EVERY GnR album on vinyl and they are awesome sounding. Totally blows the puny CD away.

I guess the digital toy would have to just stay a "toy" for now.

elhefe wrote:I knew it that one of these days, someone will spot that I do not have a turntable.



I am interested but still concern about the LPs availability for the the type of music I listen to.

You have such a fine system already. Why not just take that extra 2 steps and get into vinyl. Your system now is like B16A but only up to 4000rpm. Once u go vinyl, the VTEC will open and u will reach 8500rpm.

Drop me a PM when you're ready. A good vinyl system doesn't need to cost an arm-leg, but its performance can easily exceed any digital playback system costing 5x~8x more.

Here is a real-world story. Only a few weeks old:
Recently, I got a friend with a RM200~300K system. Full blown Digital frontend (some 3-letter brand which is the best money can buy), massive monobock Amps, crazy expensive Speakers, but no vinyl. But when he finally took the plunge and bought a "modest" record player system.... He is enjoying his RM300K system even more than ever. 'Nuff said.

Bro MF,



You are using Honda terms. Very laymen hehehehe.



How much budget do I need tp put aside for a basic introductory vinyl set up.



NOTE: I already have an NAD phone pre-amp.

Ah.... I can see the crowning of the new poison-king....

8500rpm indeed. Go for an F20C lar. 9000rpm.

elhefe,m



u can put the tv on a wall mount and u will hv space for the ....turntable.

elhefe wrote:Bro MF,



You are using Honda terms. Very laymen hehehehe.



How much budget do I need tp put aside for a basic introductory vinyl set up.



NOTE: I already have an NAD phone pre-amp.

Ok, first thing you should do, is to BURN that NAD phono P.O.S. device.... (actually , just sell it off here at H4S lah ... heh heh heh heh heh)

OK, a decent analog front end, you can start with a Pro-Ject RPM 5 or 6 series, under RM4K.
A good cartridge, can be MM or MC, under RM1K.
A decent Phono box, lets say, a Clearaudio Nano-Phono, under RM1K also. Thats RM5~6K altogether.

Or if you wanna squeeze even lower, perhaps a Rega RP3 , around RM2K'ish ... Rega Elys2 cart around RM400, but do still stick to the Clearaudio PhonoNano, .... that comes to around RM 3.5K.

Anything less, don't bother otherwise you'll end up complaining that your CDs sound better (and rightfully so as well). Otherwise, buying a good s/hand turntable and electronics is also a popular choice. But for the Cartridge, its better to buy new unless the previous owner is honest about its mileage and usage. Just remember, the cartridge is actually a consumable item. It will eventually wear out and need replacing in due time.

All recommendations are IMO only. Of course there are also other similar combos and we'll let others chip in as well.

The quality of TT systems are a rather peculiar case. Complete analog systems costing less than RM 2K are usually rather crude sounding (of course there are a few exceptions here and there lah). But after that RM4~5K price point, it really improves exponentially and smoke the Digital equivalent. And when you touch the (let's say...) RM15K price point, and provided its properly set up, it will really run far far ahead of almost any digital front end system.

Be forewarned though that if a turntable is poorly setup, then it is sure to be very horrible sounding no matter how exotic or expensive it may be. But don't worry, when you decide to take the next steps to analog, there would be plenty of help available.

Elhefe,

Actually if you spend those money you told us you have been spending on digital but on a turntable system instead, provided your kind of music is available on LPs, then your musical life would be richer by several orders of magnitude !!!

Aaaaahhh on this pagi raya, after got my lemang and rendang fix, i am getting this poison from MF and WongKN hehehhe.

Project have been highly recommended by not only thia forum, but also from some of my friends. So, who is the authorised distributor for Project? The same as the Rega distributor in Amcorp?

I have a month long holiday in end of October. This would be my small project that time.

I never regret spending on the kit I have now. It is actually very satisfying but of course, LP has its merit as well. I remember my late father would spend hours spinning the black disc on weekends.

Project - Tong Lee. They can package the rpm5 with an ortofon or Sumiko cartridge n Project phono stage as well

Rega -Asia sound

Another option is the Clearaudio Concept - cmy

Need more poison?

Since the Clearaudio Concept and CMY was mentioned, and not to scare anyone away thanks to CMY's "super premium" prices...

It should be made known that for whatever clearaudio stuff that CMY sells, the exact equivalent item can usually be bought at probably 30% to 50% less than what CMY would sell for. Real-world street prices we're talking here.

What to do? Lots of hifi gear ARE EXPENSIVE HERE in Malaysia...tax and our lousy currency rate. Its been a take it or leave it matter all the time. Even one former big shot bluntly retorted about tolled roads..Wanna use? PAY lor!

There are people who'd pay premiums to satisfy their desire to own such. Linn oso not cheap here... Ekos arm = 15k woh! I really don't want to imagine how much the Naim Fraim will cost here.

Elhefe,

EVEN MORE poison. There's a Linn LP12 with Grace 707 arm going for less than 5k right here in our for-sale forum. 5k couldn't even buy that CDT you have been auditioning.....

If you are flush with cash, and the bekside is so itchy scratching doesn't work, I know a place where you can get a Goldmund Studio with matching arm and catridge for just slightly above RM11k....

Its Raya time and since we know each other, what better way for a friend to wish another Selamat Hari Raya than with some nice poison, of the non dangerous kind....

POISON POISON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.

cmboy wrote:What to do? Lots of hifi gear ARE EXPENSIVE HERE in Malaysia...tax and our lousy currency rate. Its been a take it or leave it matter all the time. Even one former big shot bluntly retorted about tolled roads..Wanna use? PAY lor!

There are people who'd pay premiums to satisfy their desire to own such. Linn oso not cheap here... Ekos arm = 15k woh! I really don't want to imagine how much the Naim Fraim will cost here.

Well, thanks to the Internet and regional price comparisons.. there are many alternatives.

Unlike roads and cars which are either infrastructural (e.g. highways) or institutional (e.g. the auto industry). Hifi is consumer electronics & consumers should be very much wiser by now whether to always pay "official agent's sticker price".

Wwwwwaaahhh this poison is not bad at all. Better than all these cholesterol I gained from todays feast at all my relative's house hehehe. I have to do sOme research on the 2nd hand Linn Sondek. The seller is in Penang. Quite far alsoto go.

I think I need to demo and experience vinyl in CMY first. I will ask my trustworthy SA to set it up this week.

Thanks for the tip. I shall move this discussion to another thread as its no longer about racks hehehhe.

Moving the thread eh. Well you know what they say "you can run but you can't hide". Hahahahaha, sorry, sorry, too good to miss.....

You should do a search in our for-sale forum. I remember seeing more than 1 Linn LP12 for sale over the past 1 month period. With the active interest in another thread where people are sharing knowledge and experience about re-furbishing LP12s (what to and what not to), now seems to be a good time to get one.

Of course if you can afford, I would recommend that Goldmundo instead....

elhefe, from your posts here I know you are a very prudent guy so I hardly need to tell you to think carefully before making the leap to vinyl.

Mugenfoo, KN, and all the others are right - vinyl sounds better. Even my TT setup, which costs 2/3 of my SACD setup, easily sounds superior in many ways. The SACD sounds cleaner, has a lower noise floor, has better bass, and has better timing - but vinyl has better dynamics, wider and deeper soundstage, and simply sounds more like real life.

HOWEVER - the music which I am interested in is scarcely available on vinyl. I live in one of the best cities in the world for vinyl - Melbourne is full of secondhand vinyl shops, and there are vinyl swap meets every few months. Even then, I find it hard to find some of the things which I want. I am fed up of going to swap meets and coming home with incredibly noisy and scratchy vinyl which sounds worse than the CD equivalents.

Before you make the investment, take a look at the software. I found that most of the stuff is either audiophile schmaltz or jazz or rock/pop - all things I cannot tahan. Take your 10 favourite discs, and see if they are available on vinyl. In my case, NONE were available new, and I had to get lucky in the secondhand market.

There is no point having a killer vinyl rig if the only music available for it is stuff you don't like.

Good point. And the same could be said of true hirez files at the moment also....
So at the end of the day, the CD format still reigns supreme (only because of availability but not quality)... for now.

WongKK, can tumpang u some day to find some of those Rock/Metal LPs that u cannot tahan ? Here in KL, they are being sold at cut-throat prices!

Hahahhahah somebody took the liberty to start this thread for me....thanks. Ultimate poison.

Yes WongKK,

I will not rush into vinyl. Being analogue which human ears are accustomed to, I have no doubt vinyl should sound more 'real'. The last experience I had with vinyl was in late 90's when I was still living in UK. Various LPs of course was easier to find in HMV, Virgin shops etc.

That is actually my greatest fear leaping into vinyl - the availability of the LPs of my music genre. Nevertheless, I will try to audition a vinyl set up first.

Speakng of LPs, have anyone tried ordering online from overseas? I have tried with CDs and BDs from amazon. Not only cheaper but also never got taxed by customs here and the items arrived undamaged. Not sure with LPs though.

Ah, wise words indeed. And thus why I always append my recommendations with "IF you can find the music you like". It's all about finding the music you want because all those audiophile music, they can only get you that far. I know it painfully well.

Perhaps this recommendation instead. Go visit Amcorp mall and take a look at the used records they have for sale there (I would have said to check at the KLAVS but we all know it ended just last month). Amcorp mall remains the main source of used LPs if one doesn't want to venture to buying from internet (may not be adviseable to those who are not familiar with it). If you can find the music you want there, then you know you now have a good source. If you can't find it, then you know you have to start looking for alternatives and that may not be easy.

I think a lot depends on what year one's favourite music is typically released in. I have mentioned often enough how music released from early 1990 till late 2000s are all available mainly on CD only. If you look real hard and am really patience, then you might find them on LP but I myself waited 5 years for some of the music I want. So if you don't already have a good selection to listen to in the meantime, then it is probably foolish to wait years before you can listen to your favourite music on LP.

mugenfoo no problem. Here the LP's sell between A$30-$60 each (depending on whether they are "audiophile" or not). Secondhand LP's are between $3 - $10, depending on quality and rarity.

Elhefe,

I don't remember you ever telling us what kind of music you like. So perhaps this is the most important thing to consider before you continue taking our poison

From my experience, the crucial elements are the genre of the music (whether it is more mainstream like pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc vs the non-mainstream like punk-rock which from personal experience I know is tough to get on LPs) and then the year which the majority of your music is released. Again LPs are easily available up till around early 1990s. Thereafter, the major labels all quickly converted to CD and it was like that until late 2000s. It was really only the last two or three years that some of the major labels have started releasing LPs again. Thus if you like Lady Gaga or Taylor Swift, you will be able to find their LPs. But if you want to get Westlife or 4 Non Blondes, then you are basically out of luck.

I re-discovered vinyl earlier this year after a few years in the audio Wasteland consisting of new technology games with MiniDisc, CD, iPod and consumer level streaming from iTunes and an active shunning of any sort of remotely audiophile equipment. Then my mom just simply off-loaded her old Rega Planar 3 with RB300 and Ortofon MC-1 Turbo cartridge, along with Holfi Ellipse phono stage and Holfi Audis Integrated (60w/c SS), and a pair of System Audio 1050's.... and a few boxes of records.

For me, the tactility of the experience is so satisfying. Be able to see and touch the music carrying medium and of course, the big album art-work, are involving and non-isolating, in that one can sit, watch the disc spin and handle the album cover comfortably. And of course, the blooming warmth from the sound that emanates!

I've since added a GLOW Audio Amp One (5w/c EL-84 driven SEP) and a pair of vintage circa 1994 Klipsch Tangent T-3000 speakers to the set-up and am about to go cartridge hunting, together with thinking about coming home with a VPI Classic turntable. This whole experience has been very rewarding and led to a re-discovery of music in general for me.

From what I have experienced thus far, it can be done on a controlled budget and reasonable sanity levels and certainly rewards with serious bang for buck value.

WongKN,

Have you experienced any of the new-release LPs of contemporary artists? Some punters have reported a sometimes 'flat' and 'un-lively' quality to the sound.

I've thus far restricted myself to building up my pre-envisioned back catalogue of albums and the occasional re-issue on 180gms. Having said that, I just picked up the Eric Clapton/Steve Winwood Live at Madison Sqaure Triple LP, pressed in the US, and it's simply awesome.

I have not really tried the latest LP releases. Was planning to take up Taylor Swift from Acoustic Sounds as my little niece likes her. At the moment am waiting for my other orders to be available so I can order in one go and save in posting. But I am getting frustrated because I am not sure if the CCR box-set I have on back-order will ever be fulfilled or not. If I do get the Taylor Swift I will update. But Mugenfoo has bought LPs like Lady Gaga. Perhaps he can give some feedback.

The audiophile re-issues are so far quite good indeed. I bought MFSL Santana Abraxas from HiWay at the KLAVS and MFSL did a good job with the re-mastering and re-issue. The re-issue of Eric Clapton UnPlugged is very good as well. These are available at either HiWay, CMY, Nova, etc.

Have you visited Amcorp mall yet ?

Also, I am not a regular at CMY as my good friend Japson has left the 1U branch. Anyone knows what happened to that huge stash of used LP they were selling at the KLAVS ? I bought a few from them and I find the quality to be good, and clean as well. So I am eager to go rummage through those boxes again.

I spend way too much time at Amcorp on Sundays...

I saw on one of the blogs that CMY is now selling the second-hand LPs at Sungai Wang and the Damansara Utama branches.

I've got the Hendrix albums on re-issue and while clear and clean, they seem lacking punch in the mids and are too bright... Not a set-up issue as far as I know as some friends who have the same are similarly inclined.

You probably need to find the earliest pressing possible. I.e. when was the album released and which country was it recorded. Then find the LP around the year of release and from the country it was recorded. This means for Jimi Hendrix, should be U.S. pressing. Unfortunately, knowing Jimi Hendrix, this is going to be expensive. Sometimes the 2nd pressing (e.g. a few years later) can be good as well. Plus they are cheaper.

Oh yah, I forgot I do own a current LP - Tom Petty's MOJO which according to the label is supposedly mastered in 'hi-res' digital (not sure what format but the 'hi-quality' downloads are only in 24/48 format). Even with a supposedly digital base, the LP sounds wonderful ! Perhaps the studio equipment they used for the DAC process is very good....

Tom Petty's voice is awesome...

RE: Jimi... the original pressings were all UK... he was a nobody in the US and had to travel to the UK to make his name... when he left for the UK, a blues legend, John Hammond Jr (his father was a Columbia Records exec who discovered Bob Dylan) lent Jimi $20, which he repaid when he returned after finding fame...

An uh, to steer this back on track does anybody here have any experiences with the VPI Classice turntable?

Ah, then you might want to look for UK pressings (useful info to for me too for the future).

VPI Classic eh ? Are you a regular reader of the STAR by any chance ? Since you just registered here this month, I don't think you might know which famous local 'celebrity' owned just this exact turntable...

Hmmm... Sujesh = Bassraptor?

The VPI Classic is potentially a great turntable, with the right cartridge ... I suggest a thorough and careful audition to hear everything it does do and doesn't ...

Oh, I now use an Aries 3 ...

Thanks for that raptor...

Why did you move away from the Classic?

I've heard it twice now and am thinking about a 3rd go and then listening to some others before making a decision. The soundstage is pretty wide and deep, with good mids and adequate bass, my only complaint being it's antouchnbright for my liking, but I'm thinking cartridge choice would take care of that.

What cartridge/system was used? You heard it at Centre Circle?

After an A/B comparison using the same cartridge, I decided it was worthwhile moving up to the Aries 3.

VPIs have traditionally been dark-sounding, although their newer TTs, especially the Classic, moves away from this. Still, it never sounded bright with a number of cartridges I tried on it, from Benz, Sumiko, Dynavector and Clearaudio ... bass was a strong point.

Just got back from kampung.

My music genres ranges from orchestra to heavy metal to grunge to punk rock to jazz to acoustic....never ending list hehehehe. Basically, mood dependent. I think I have mentioned before that as a drummer, I tend to listen to any type of music as long as it has good beat and rhythm to it. BUt most of the time, I only enjoy in the likes Andrea Bocelli, Gypsy Kings, Eagles, Foo Fighters, Beatles and for local-ish artists, M. Nasir, Broery, Ebiet G. Ade and Sheila Majid.

I would not be going to find LPs on albums that I already own on CD. Most probably I would look for new albums or older albums that I do not have in my CD collection.

WongKN wrote:Elhefe,

I don't remember you ever telling us what kind of music you like. So perhaps this is the most important thing to consider before you continue taking our poison

From my experience, the crucial elements are the genre of the music (whether it is more mainstream like pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc vs the non-mainstream like punk-rock which from personal experience I know is tough to get on LPs) and then the year which the majority of your music is released. Again LPs are easily available up till around early 1990s. Thereafter, the major labels all quickly converted to CD and it was like that until late 2000s. It was really only the last two or three years that some of the major labels have started releasing LPs again. Thus if you like Lady Gaga or Taylor Swift, you will be able to find their LPs. But if you want to get Westlife or 4 Non Blondes, then you are basically out of luck.

All these poison makes me want to skip work tomorrow and head towards Jaya One and Amcorp mall. Hehehehe.

Elhefe ... a Rega P5 would suit you just fine ...

Bassraptor,

Was there a P3 model before this P5?

How much are we talking about here for a brand new P5? And I guess this can be auditioned in Amcorp mall?

bassraptor wrote:Elhefe ... a Rega P5 would suit you just fine ...

elhefe wrote:
I would not be going to find LPs on albums that I already own on CD. Most probably I would look for new albums or older albums that I do not have in my CD collection.

Haw haw!, wait till you own a TT and playing with it, then like many other people who once thought the CD was best, then happen to listen to the ori LP version, you could think otherwise and god knows what you'll do next. I did kena something like that once a while, not only that, one TT brand after another. Unfortunately, wifey is the one who receives packages from abroard at the doorstep....Wooooooooooo!

elhefe,



rega is sold by asia sound at amcorp mall.

btw there's the rega rp3 to be launched soon...cheaper than the p5.

The P3 24 is the latest version of the venerable Planar 3, of which I'm a proud owner. However, it's reached the maximum extension of it's performance for me. The P5 is one model up I believe and I'm sure Eddie at AsiaSound would be more than pleased to help you audition it. Just be sure to match it with a cartridge that gives decent bass as while the P3 is a decent performer, it needs some help reaching low.

Bass raptor: most modern hifi sounds bright to me, but I'm sure with my vintage speakers and smooth tubes the Classic could be tamed along with a woody looking Grado cart... Otherwise I'm screwed as there's no other TT in the same cpprice bracket that appeals to me.... To my ears, VPIs are certainly more musical and warm than say Clearaudio....

JediSavant wrote:... To my ears, VPIs are certainly more musical and warm than say Clearaudio....

Ah, see, that's why I moved away from Clearaudio ...became a bit fatiguing ...

Have u considered a vintage Thorens or Garrard?

Tried two different Grado cartridges before ...it always seemed like they were missing something ...

The rega website no longer lists the P3-24 under its catalog, except for the high gloss colour variants. The RP3 is the replacement model and also sports a few noteworthy improvements like the new RB303 arm.

But having worked with a number of Rega decks, I have to say that Regas are severely limited in the following respects:
- The darn speed... it always runs too fast. And even the flagship P9 model with its outboard power supply, does not afford any kind of speed control feature.

- The RB-series arm. Not too rigidly secured to the plinth, and not quite as frictionless as its modern contemporaries. Sonically, it just lacks that final bit of refinement to resolve the detailing depths that vinyl can offer.

- That plastic resin subplatter .... always a wobble and a bump to it. Luckily, plenty aftermarket replacement parts to consider.

A vintage Thorens with a vintage SME arm , now thats an idea.

Or that modern Thorens TD 309 looks really tempting...

Aiyah, waste time la. Just get that Goldmund Studio la !

There's an Artemis Labs TT too ...

Yes, that too. Get a Shroader Ref arm as well.

hhhhmmmm had a listen to Clearaudio Emotion just now. Played Dire Straits.

Very strong poison. Will have a listen to Clearaudio Concept next week. Not enough time just now.

I prefer the looks of Concept though.

I thought the thread title is "looking for antidote", after reading thus far it is all about poison and more poison. Better jump out soon. :-)

mikapoh wrote:
I thought the thread title is "looking for antidote", after reading thus far it is all about poison and more poison. Better jump out soon. :-)

Too late...elhefe has already buka puasa and drank the poison...

It was definitely a different experience totally listening to vinyl but of course it was running through a full Jeff Rowland amplifiers and ProAc giant speakers.

I do feel that playing vinyl has an emotional and personal touch to it. With the anti static gun and the brushing of LP before playing it, its really a passion that cannot be forced.

I will also have a listen to a cheaper Rega TT and see what is the different.

For the tine being, back to my CLiC.