Lousy electrical power supply fix - Power Conditioners

It would take a while to digest what tin is saying.

Dear Jchong,

Theoretically the ac regenerator and isolation transformer will output "new and clean power", but I had experienced my projector ( which is plugged in to PurePower 2000i-RGPC 400Pro-RGPC Substation-wall outlet ) video quality with higher noise ( in comparison )for some different moments even the input voltage was 230-240 50hz. I suspect bad harmonics/EMI/RFI injected to my housing area grid by the usage of unknown electronic equipment in the neighbourhood.

Ps, the above mentioned condition happened very seldom however. With the aid of power products mentioned, my systems always perform well, clean, quiet and noisefree for video

Dear Tin,

I agree and disagree with your statements of transformer based power products like voltage regulator will inject noise into the system.... the noise harvesters better than transformer based power products...the voltage regulator should be avoided...

My previous PS Audio P1000 transformer based avr is no doubt injected noise to the system and easily outperformed by a RGPC 400Pro.
But the RGPC Substation/ Torus as isolation "transformer" and PurePower as an ac regenerator and "UPS" will greatly improve the system sound with very quiet background.
"IN MY SYSTEMS", AB comparions with my previous 6 unit of PS Audio noise harvesters with a RGPC 400Pro or a Substation, those noise harveters, "to my systems", are "snake oil" which made the initially bodied overall sound to bright,thin and harsh sound.
Voltage regulator plays big part in bringing the undesired voltage ( certain permissible range ) to a desired rated voltage, optimum for your equipments designed voltage. Only with the input designed voltage, your equipments will perform their best.

hughesths wrote:Dear Jchong,

Theoretically the ac regenerator and isolation transformer will output "new and clean power", but I had experienced my projector ( which is plugged in to PurePower 2000i-RGPC 400Pro-RGPC Substation-wall outlet ) video quality with higher noise ( in comparison )for some different moments even the input voltage was 230-240 50hz. I suspect bad harmonics/EMI/RFI injected to my housing area grid by the usage of unknown electronic equipment in the neighbourhood.

Interesting... I would have thought the regenerator/isolation transformer would filter out the bad harmonics/EMI/RFI from the grid. That should also be part of the new and clean power they are supposed to output.

Jchong and hughesths.

1. Voltage regulators and isolation transformers are 2 different devices. In my opinion it is important to determine why your system voltage swings so much. Like I have mentioned earlier there is absolutely NO role WHATSOEVER in the use of transformer based voltage regulator. Al Sekala seems to agree with me on this http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/55/556103.html

As far as isolation transformers are concerned the quality of the transformer is the single most important determinant. In this regard there is one brand that stands up above others:TORUS. Super Quiet transformer; unrivaled really!

Richard Grey Power Company (RGPC) is more suited for AV use rather than true high end system, that includes the sub station. It imparts too much sonic signature of its own. Hence, based on my experience I can not recommend this brand for serious hifi.

As far as receptacles are concerned I use the American type receptacles only for my hifi use. I am using Oyaide R1 which I find truly superb. Other than the hifi use for the rest of my house, I am using Siemens British type receptacles. Other brands of British type receptacles that I can recommend are Simtone, Delta, the high end Clipsal and high end MK.

ELCB? Siemens or Hagar, nothing better really!

I do not use any PS Audio products and that includes the noise harvester. I have had superb results using hifi tuning noise harvester. A lot of peoople use this device incorrectly. IT SHULD BE PLUGGED AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE NOISE PRODUCING DEVICE AND NOT IN YOUR HIFI RIGS!

I think the efficiency/quality of those products and how effective (0-100%) they are, are the main cause. But the higher picture noise (in comparison) mentioned on the video is only slightly compared to the noisefree condition. All I'm talking about is when comparing upscaled dvd video quality only. Blu ray video quality has been noisefree all the time however.
The mentioned condition appeared more obvious in video, but very subtle in audio.

Tin,

For your info, I only involved in av 3 years ago. Those RGPC and Torus products were seriously auditioned in my hifi systems before I had av setup.
I have both the products but used in different setups. AB comparisons of Torus and RGPC have the same quieter character transformers. The Torus is far more expensive for an isolation transformer. The Substation is more value of money. I bought the Torus before the Substation, bit regret of paying so much for the same sonic performance.
Perhaps Macintosh, Audio Research ,etc companies which use RGPC products as their reference power conditoner, are not as "true" high end as you described.
I do not own true high end system so the RGPCs are enough use.

hughesths,

The Most important thing is you like the sound of your system,It doesn't matter what other people think.if you find ,in your system,RGPC gives you what you want,well ,by all mean ,congratulations...


as you are well aware,RGPC is perharps the most popular power conditioner in malaysia.i have heard many systems that has RG pc at its heart,and the sonic sig, is always there........

My experience in comparing the Substation vs Torus is completely different from yours;the Torus has always been superior by quite a fair margin ,in almost every department

You could also google what R.fremer thought of the Richard Gray Pc in the stereophile archive;my experience is not dissimilar..........

here is the link of that Framer's review.My experience mirrors his ....

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/255/index11.html

Tin,

First of all, I do care what people think of the effect of the varies power products as I have invested so much trying to minimize my area bad quality of electricity effect to the systems. I'm interested more in power products rather than audio products. The brands I'm trying to audition now are ByBee and Running Spring Audio
Most power products will show greater sound improvement in the poorer ac quality and only in this condition, the effectiveness of power products could only be exactly confirmed. That's why power products will show great improvement to my systems. Please kindly ask yourself, does your area/household input voltage fluctuate from 198V-262V ?
Michael Fremer auditioned the older RGPC 400s and 120v Substation but not 400Pro and 240v "balanced" output Substation, so will his review as accurate? I had 400s before and it was a snake oil compared to the newer 400Pro which really improves system sound while prolonging equipments life span, tube gears especially. So I confidently prove Michael Fremer wrong.

I'm not a bias type of person like when I use A brand, I will say A is the best, but I keep searching the better and more effective products based on reviews and self auditions. I had have many PS Audio conditiners like PPP, P1000, Duet, noise harvesters, humbuster....before I found better products like Torus, RGPC, Isotek Titan and then PurePower ( bought in order ).

hughesths,

1. The power supply in my audio lines are fairly stable. Of course it fluctuates by about 5 - 7% but this does not effect the performance of the system. I have a whole phase dedicated to the hifi system with its own circuit breaker. My whole house has been wired with helukabel wires and I have hifi tuning noise harvester in almost every place that produces noise. I believe this contributes significantly to the voltage stability of my hifi rig.

2. I have compared the new and old RGPC product and I do not think that there has been much change. This is because they are using MOV which is a no no in power filtration in my opinion.

3. I certainly think you are on the right track with regards to using Running Spring Audio and ByBee power conditioners. My friends abroad are raving about them and they have been dumping everything they are using for the above mentioned. Add the Synergistic Research Power Cell 10E, Acoustic Revive, Audio Replas, and I am sure you will not feel sorry about saying good bye to RGPC's products.

4. I have never been a fan of PS Audio power conditioners, especially so now that they have moved their power conditioner to Class D amp and manufacturing to China.

5. You should also audition the Teflon version of Audience power conditoner and the newer Shunyata Vray version II. They are better than their predecessors.

Tin,

Perhaps your system has prejudice of RGPC and it really doesn't match your system and you do all the time have better quality of ac compared to mine. RGPCs, to a certain degree, serves all of my friends high end systems well.
I have many "small" power conditioners, some still in use, like Acoustic Revive RGC-24 (2 units ) and RR-77, DPA Power Plus, Quantum QX2, Shunyata Hydra 6... used in my different gears
The Synergistic Research Power Cell 10E, Audience, Shunyata Vray II, Walker Audio Velocitor, Burmester 948, Edge ACF-2M... auditioned so far, they all have sonic improvement but not that value for money due to their high price.
All products will have their sonic signature, like them or not all depends on how they match with your system and whether you like the overall sound they give. No product is bad, it's just system matching. The effectiveness of catering poor ac, equipments protection... are different story however.

Tin,

Torus is not as "super quiet" isolation transformer as you said , it does slightly hum together with my RGPC Substation, Servo 15v2 sub and power amps occasionally when poor ac period experienced in my systems.

Let us go back to the original theme ;i.e minimizing Voltage fluctuations.As I have elucidated earLIER WHAT the important things are;good wiring for the WHOLE house,good receptacles and house hold equipments etc,......This is the crux of the issue.

Just to give an example,a friend of mine recently changed his 10 y.o LG 3 doors Fridge with a Fisher & Paykel unit{the same brand that i use] and he couldn't belive the improvement of sound he get in his hifi rigs!!!

A few years ago after coming back from abroad, I spoke to the then senior engineer in TNB about power supply in malaysia in general.He told me that the biggest problem faced by TNB is actually the contractors.They use the cheapest cables around, use multiple branching[coz it is always cheaper to do} ,and a lot of them are actually self tought.The markups are quite increadible too!!!!


I too notice this to be the case.So let me make myself clear;I feel the use of AVR,and the likes do not adress the fundemantal problems of the system;Get a dedicated cuircuit ,use good electrical stuff and you would be surprised that the voltage suddenly becomes more stable

Like I mentioned earlier ,RGPC [together with Monster and Chang lightspeed]are actually very popular in the US for use in the AV rooms.You actually get very good discount on them too .Elsewhere ,it is almost nonexistence[except for malaysia,perharps]Now Torus actually manufactures their own transformers which are amongst the quitest in the industry.Having said that ,a transformer is a transformer ;it always produces noise

tin wrote:

A few years ago after coming back from abroad, I spoke to the then senior engineer in TNB about power supply in malaysia in general.He told me that the biggest problem faced by TNB is actually the contractors.They use the cheapest cables around, use multiple branching[coz it is always cheaper to do} ,and a lot of them are actually self tought.The markups are quite increadible too!!!!

You mean they don't regulate like they used to during LLN time. Surely, someone qualify, Licenced Electrical Worker or Professional Engineer had to sign some declaration paper upon completion of the work.

Cheap cables maybe can blame the developers.

Hmmm.. Based the TNB story above, it seems that:

They know the root cause.
They know the culprits.
But they don't know how to take action.

Tycham and car o scope,

both of you are right.

Culturally,Malaysia is a heaven for middlemen;too many people share the single piece of roti chanai,they have to make it really big....

Also,how many people actually use proper Architect to build their house?I was amazed to find out[fr an architect friend] that most just pay a token sum to the draftmen to do the drawing and the arcitect just provide with the 'chop'

My house has been experiencing wide-range voltage swings in the past 18 months only, after some project was started nearby. The readings, from 220V to 260 are the same inside the house and outside at the entry point prior to the meter (i know, because the TNB guys came and checked and agree it was their issue). I've taken readings in my neighbours houses, same thing.

So how the fudge can I minimise voltage swings when the problem isn't mine?

Of course, the TNB PR office was kind enough the tell me to let them know if anything burned out from spikes, as they would investigate and compensate.

I did a complete re-wire of my pre-owned house 8 years ago when I bought it, and the electrician who planned it for me is himself a hi-fi nut (he uses Krell monoblocks), so he knew what i needed. Yes, there is dedicated 32A line to my hi-fi room.

Anyway, I've settled on the PurePower 1050i, and I don't worry about anything happening before it these days!

My 2 sen, then ..

tin wrote:A few years ago after coming back from abroad, I spoke to the then senior engineer in TNB about power supply in malaysia in general.He told me that the biggest problem faced by TNB is actually the contractors.They use the cheapest cables around, use multiple branching[coz it is always cheaper to do} ,and a lot of them are actually self tought.The markups are quite increadible too!!!!

The premise you are making is that the use of cheap cables and multiple branching by the contractors is the root cause of the poor power quality (in particular wide voltage fluctuations) in many homes. I'm not sure how true that is entirely.

Cables - firstly, I'm sure we all realise that contractors are not laying cables with audiophiles in mind. Yes the contractors would use cheaper cables, but not so bad as to breach local standards. I believe the cables would be of some standard approved type. After all the normal 2.5mm pvc jacketed copper cable is a very simple thing. How far wrong can it go?

Multiple branching - the design of the wiring layout is commonly done by the electrical consultant and executed by the contractor. Again I believe the wiring layout has to follow some standards and is signed off by the PE. Again the PE is not designing for audiophile needs.

ELCBs, etc - I believe some SIRIM or TNB approved type will have to be used at a minimum.

So at a minimum, the materials used (cables, ELCB) are of approved type. Though definitely not 'audiophile grade'. If TNB approves the use of such materials then they cannot put the blame entirely on contractors. And in the very first place, do we know for sure these factors contribute to voltage fluctuations? In terms of voltage fluctuation, I still think TNB is involved and they cannot entirely put the blame on contractors.

As for other aspects of power quality, no doubt things like EMI/RFI noise is injected into our powerlines (due maybe to unshielded cables). Is that a fault of the cable or due to the proliferation of devices nowadays? Besides, I think standard specs for electrical wiring design do not cater for EMI/RFI rejection. So again is it fair to blame the contractors?

No doubt audiophiles demand a higher standard, in materials and design of the electrical system, but the general market (not only in Malaysia but elsewhere) doesn't call for this.

Now Torus actually manufactures their own transformers which are amongst the quitest in the industry.

IIRC Torus gets their transformers from Plitron.

tin wrote:Also,how many people actually use proper Architect to build their house?I was amazed to find out[fr an architect friend] that most just pay a token sum to the draftmen to do the drawing and the arcitect just provide with the 'chop'

In the first place most Malaysians don't have the opportunity to build their own house. They would buy a house from a developer and in this case definitely an architect is involved.

For those who can build their own homes, well there are those who use architects and those who, like you say, pay a token sum to a draftsman to do the drawing and just 'chop' by the architect. However, I think the former are in the majority.

Tin ,

What if I already have dedicated ac line, good whole house wiring with larger gauge, good connectors/receptacles/ELCB/CB/meter, good househlod equipments, good earthing and still get bad sound during lousy electricity hour? In my case, I'm also facing lousy electricity issues even though the household voltage is normal 230-240v, I did have whole house rewired, changed to good receptacles/fuses.... as u mentioned, I've even tried unplugged all my household equipments and just left my hifi sys played, but I still got bad sound during lousy electricity hour. The grid ac quality should be the main cause. Fortunately, my newly bought PPP come to rescue, at least it helps filtering the lousy ac. The sound improvement is the proof.


Hughesths, you are really a power conditioners freak ( Just a joke )and I pity you have lousy ac too. I bet you already have good household wiring, dedicated line, good receptacles.. and good household equipments since you have many expensive power conditioners.... BUT maybe there is not enough, you should stop wasting your money looking for other expensive power conditioners but to concentrate on changing all your household equipments to FISHER & PAYKEL brand, only that you get better ac output, AVR won't do any help at all !!!

soonthas wrote:Hughesths, you are really a power conditioners freak ( Just a joke )

I agree. Salute to you hughesths for having tried out so many different power conditioners.

Your opinions on them would be valuable to those of us looking into these devices.

Thanks Jchong. Actually there is nothing to be proud of being a power conditioner "Freak" as described. I did all sort of possible changes to my house wiring,cb, dedicated line, earthing....to good one but still could not solve the problem, then only this power conditioners quest has begun. Many of my friends have ridicuted me by suggesting to better buy a diesel gen set.
I really admire most of your have better ac quality than mine.

hughesths,

So, after so many trials, you settle down with which one in the end?
PurePower?

Car,

For the "bigger" power products, I own a Torus, an Isoteks Titan, 4 RGPC 400Pros, a 1200s, a substation, a PurePower 1050i and recently a 2000i.

Depends on what improvement you need, each of them have their own strength. Purepower is considered quite a good product, it is an ac regenerator with battery backup which is very useful during sudden blackout and good for tubes/projector's bulb protection. It's price is not sky high, quite value for money with the good features and good sound improvement it provides. Cheers.

hughesths wrote:Car,

For the "bigger" power products, I own a Torus, an Isoteks Titan, 4 RGPC 400Pros, a 1200s, a substation, a PurePower 1050i and recently a 2000i.

Depends on what improvement you need, each of them have their own strength. Purepower is considered quite a good product, it is an ac regenerator with battery backup which is very useful during sudden blackout and good for tubes/projector's bulb protection. It's price is not sky high, quite value for money with the good features and good sound improvement it provides. Cheers.

Thanks for the info..
The part of Sban that you are staying has noisy electricity supply?

I have to thank one of us here too for lending me the device to check the supply at my home.
Glad that the supply is quite consistent. Phew!!

Car,

Sban Jaya.

SOONTHAS,

in your case it is very easy,all you need is just multiple plug in-capacitor types voltage stabalizer.......you might even end up selling your PPP;)....and what brand of wires do you use for your house wiring?What is the differential reading on your earth???And is the earth in your listening room isolated??Hmm....

2.Bassraptors-your situation of corse is quite different,make sure you harass the TNB guys.......but also having a good lines in your whole house is just as important as your dedicated cuircuit.....


3.Jchong...I suppose Power cords are not important right?after all wires are wires.........might as well just use the power cords given free by the manufacturers.....and save some money for some more power conditioners....;)And hey ,most of those free PC are approved by the gov too......
4.Jokes aside,If you need so many power conditioners to get the best out of your system,there MUST be something seriously wrong with your wiring...............

TIN,

If TNB comes across to appoint their new CEO director by election, I'm the first one who would vote you.
If you come across opening an Hifi household wiring consultation and construction firm, I will become your first client.
I should dump my PPP right away and just plug all my equipments to the wall outlet dedicated lines with isolated earthing ( reading of 1.6 ohm)....and always brainwash myself and convince myself that the sound produced is the "TRUE AUDIOPHILE VERY CLEAN & BEST SOUND" even though the actual sound is badly affected by dirty mains from the grid.
My own household poor ac acknowledgements and rectifications experiences and confirmation experiences of the power conditioners effectiveness have seemed barking at the moon all the while. You seem knowing my house wiring etc better than anyone, must be GOD then.

PS: I use Russ Andrews wire in the household wiring, this low end brand wire of course far lousier than yours.

hughesths wrote:Car,

Sban Jaya.

hughesths,

Can I consult you on something regarding power conditioning?
It is on behalf of my friend, actually.
He is also staying in Sban but he is into HT.
I shall PM you if you are ok with it.

Car,

You can PM me anytime, I'll tell you what I know, I'm still in learning stage though. Thanks.

Soonthas'

1.why so angry man?

2.No I am not an engineer and I am not interested in the post of TNB ceo.Please grow up and be an adult.

3.Where do you get the Russ Andrew brand wiring FOr the WHOLE house ??Interesting.

3.You do know that the PPP is actually a class D amp,Right?

4.Nobody is doubting the benefits of power conditioners here,thought some brands of amp Do prefer direct plug in{Halcro,Bryston,Behold}to the wall plug.......

5.No need to follow my advise if you do not want to;but please be civil,not like a child whose icecream has been taken away.......

Its just a child play and a child's way of expression, interesting?

I don't bother other's ice cream, I have my own ice cream machine which is plugged into PPP for better constant flow of ice cream to the cones.

yum yum ... i love ice cream !!

soonthas wrote:Its just a child play and a child's way of expression, interesting?

I don't bother other's ice cream, I have my own ice cream machine which is plugged into PPP for better constant flow of ice cream to the cones.

Please suggest McD to use the PPP for their ice cream machines as their flow of ice cream for Sundae Cone is not that consistent!!

tin wrote:3.Jchong...I suppose Power cords are not important right?after all wires are wires.........might as well just use the power cords given free by the manufacturers.....and save some money for some more power conditioners....;)And hey ,most of those free PC are approved by the gov too......

Please don't misunderstand me. All I'm saying is that general wiring works are done to a different standard than what is demanded by audiophiles. It is perfectly fine for its intended purpose of supplying power to common household/office appliances and lights, but perhaps not for audiophile purposes (like what I've mentioned before).

hughesths wrote:Thanks Jchong. Actually there is nothing to be proud of being a power conditioner "Freak" as described. I did all sort of possible changes to my house wiring,cb, dedicated line, earthing....to good one but still could not solve the problem, then only this power conditioners quest has begun. Many of my friends have ridicuted me by suggesting to better buy a diesel gen set.
I really admire most of your have better ac quality than mine.

Ha-ha, a diesel gen set is noisy, produces fumes and has long term running costs (buying diesel)... so you're still better off with the power conditioners!

I believe all of us TNB customers have a right to reasonable AC quality. Have you tried contacting TNB to see if they can do anything from their side?

hughesths wrote:Car,

For the "bigger" power products, I own a Torus, an Isoteks Titan, 4 RGPC 400Pros, a 1200s, a substation, a PurePower 1050i and recently a 2000i.

That's an impressive list of power products? U use all of them? Or some have been put into storage...

Using hifi grade power conditioner in other sector is quite common. Many of my doctor and dentist friends using RGPC 400Pros for their expensive related equipments, mainly for protection and longer equipments life span.
Regardless the sonic performance, 400Pro is good for extending equipments life span. Less heat is generated especially for those tube amps, thus efficiency increased, equipments perform better.
My previous P1000 was very famous of its annoying excessive heat generated which could boil eggs, after adding a 400Pro, suprisingly heat was greatly reduced.

jchong,

The general wiring done in most homes are NOT up the standard.It is as simple as that.Which is a shame ,because Malaysia is a kind of mini -hub for manufacturing of high quality cables like Sumitomo,Belden etc...Unfortunately,most that are used by contractors and developers are the elcheapo made in China stuff...the markup(just like our hi-fi0 is another story....

The good thing though is many Electricians in Malaysia has the ability to provide good service,you just have to look around .they normally work for Hospital projects and in Manufacturing industries.....not your typical electricians hired by the developers...


It also boils down to what is acceptable by your standard;

tin wrote:jchong,

The general wiring done in most homes are NOT up the standard.It is as simple as that.Which is a shame ,because Malaysia is a kind of mini -hub for manufacturing of high quality cables like Sumitomo,Belden etc...Unfortunately,most that are used by contractors and developers are the elcheapo made in China stuff...the markup(just like our hi-fi0 is another story....

The good thing though is many Electricians in Malaysia has the ability to provide good service,you just have to look around .they normally work for Hospital projects and in Manufacturing industries.....not your typical electricians hired by the developers...

It also boils down to what is acceptable by your standard;

As an audiophile I'm sure you demand a very high standard. If I had a chance to re-wire I would also do it differently along the lines of what you mentioned.

My question to you is what would you recommend as a general standard? Since you feel the current general standard is not good enough. Perhaps homes should follow hospital standards?

In terms of the basic 2.5mm copper wire, what's the difference between the china made cables and those from Sumitomo, Belden, etc...?

Jchong,

I use all of them in different systems equipments. If I have good area ac quality, I wouldn't have to spend so much.

JChong

1.The difference between the Good cables and MIC cables are like using Nordost odin PC versus stock PC.Your Bulbs last longer,your other appliances last longer,motor based appliances gets quiter and you actually pay less electricity be cain the long run.........and your Voltage gets more stable throughout the house...

2.Your house should be wired like a house albeit properly done.Those Electricians that i mentioned would be more discipline and professional .They tend to be less sneaky too.....

3.I still think hughesths has a serious wiring problem ......I also think he would benefit greatly from using Multiple Hifi Tuning noise harversters at the point where the noise comes from and the Hifi Tuning Quantum plugs[also multiple] in his power conditioners unused receptacles

tycham wrote:It would take a while to digest what tin is saying.

But then, it would cause indigestion to some. Especially so, if one feed too much on ice cream.

Tin, have you any experience with the Harmonix Enacom? If so, how would you rate it against the noise harvesters? This is the only form of noise suppression I have right now.

Bimmerman,

Harmonix Enacom is quite effective in sniffling out sound ,and it is capacitor based but if you are looking for a giant killer ,nothing beat this ones....http://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=33

Use them close to your appliances,and you can use them in conjuction with the Hi-Fi Tuning (or Kempe)Quantum plugs close to your equipments,again you should use multiple ones for best effect...


Now,take a voltage meter and I am sure the voltage will not be swinning like john Travolta anymore.......

Does any remember those red Ferrite cylinders AudioQuest used to make, i think lots of China-made ones are in the market these days.

I never found much use for them the 15 years I've had them, been in storage. An article I read some months ago prompted me to clamp two of these around the power cord of my fridge ... one at the wall end, the other at the input. The fridge, about 8 years old, was a bit noisy, sometimes quite loud.

However, after using those ferrite thingies, the sound disappeared, my wife was quite amazed, wanted to know what I did, and I showed her. Anyway, the past few months, the fridge has been quieter than ever!

Of course, my ice-cream stored in the freezer tastes colder now! ... but i'm serious about the noise part ...

After reading this, I feel like having ice cream.
Alright. Grab my car keys and off to buy ice cream.

bassraptor wrote:Does any remember those red Ferrite cylinders AudioQuest used to make, i think lots of China-made ones are in the market these days.

Is this it? A relatively cheap tweak!

car o scope wrote:After reading this, I feel like having ice cream.
Alright. Grab my car keys and off to buy ice cream.

My favourite Häagen-Dazs. Just had it for dessert

tycham: yeah, that's the one!