Sonus Faber - discussion thread

[auronthas]

I am new to this forum and as a thread starter, I wish it will bring Sonus Faber fans here to share...

IMO, i feel great to own Sonus Faber though mine is a lower end series of SF, i.e. Sonus Faber Concertino Domus

However, with a correct combination, i.e. digital source, amplifier, cables, SFCD really sings and delivers the sound well.

Cheers

[brera]

Thanks auronthas for creating this thread. I have a pair SF Concerto Grand Pianos (old series). I was thinking of getting the Krell KAV-400xi to drive the GPs but now, with the introduction of the new Krell S-300i, I have to defer my plan.

[auronthas]

Sound's great, Brera. I got mine Krell KAV-400xi less than six months, but it's great match with Sonus Faber Concertino Domus (SFCD).

I believe Krell S-300i should able to meet your requirement. Since it's still new, probably you need to wait until the new model burning in then go for auditioning.

Just curious, what's your current amplifier? Source?

[Hi-Fi 4 Sale]

I am new to this forum and as a thread starter, I wish it will bring Sonus Faber fans here to share...

IMO, i feel great to own Sonus Faber though mine is a lower end series of SF, i.e. Sonus Faber Concertino Domus

However, with a correct combination, i.e. digital source, amplifier, cables, SFCD really sings and delivers the sound well.

Cheers

Auronthas,
Would you like to post some pics of your system under the Systems Gallery section. Sounds like a nice setup.

[- br@d -]

I sense a group buy for the Krell anytime soon..

=)

bongbo

[auronthas]

Here's my Sonus Faber Concertino Domus and audio components setup, just manage to find some times to post the photos (kinda of lazy... lol). Hope to see more Sonus Faberians to post your setup photos, especially i am interested to see how's your room treatment ... my current room treatment is rug, bookshelfs, CD racks, looking to put a back drop curtain behind my listening chair, what do you think?



Sonus faber concertino domus bookshelf speakers with Cambridge Audio 540C V2, Slim Devices Squeezebox V3, Krell KAV-400xi



Closer look on Squeezebox V3 and CA 540C V2



Bookshelf from my left side of listening chair



Bookshelf on my right side of listening chair, audiophile magazines (Stereophiles, The Absolute Sounds, Audio Art 音乐论坛 (Taiwan audio magazine), etc.)



My listening chair (partly hidden) and CD racks behind it

[ryder]

Nice system you got there. I've noticed that your system is in a dedicated listening room. If that's the case, you have the chance to play around with room treatments that will definitely take your existing system to a new level.

Every room is different and the only key is to experiment yourself and find the most favourable results that will yield the best sound to your ears. For starters, you would need absorption at side walls(acoustic foam is a cheap solution). For front and back wall, you can experiment with either absorption or diffusion. I personally prefer diffusion for front wall(wall behind the speakers) and absorption for back wall(behind listening chair). You can use your existing book racks at your side walls for diffusion. Try moving each rack behind the speakers and scatter the books in the racks. I am pretty sure you will hear a difference as the sound field will be more uniform.

Have fun.

[ryder]

Before I forget, your idea of putting a curtain behind is workable but make sure it is as thick as possible and not the thin ones. Thin fabric will not help in improving the acoustics. The idea of the material is to absorb as much sound waves as possible. Acoustic products often work better due to the larger surface area and higher density.

[auronthas]

Thanks for your kind words, my listening room is rather small, i do not think i can place bookshelf at front wall (behind speaker), instead, i intend to place oil painting at front wall, will the oil painting acts as diffusion?

Yeah, i am looking for thick wool back drop curtain, any recommendation outlet, looking for curtain size approx. 13' (length) x 10' (height)

[ryder]

From the pictures it seems that your speakers have about >3'(1m) of space from the front wall. I was referring to your existing bookshelves which the pictures are featured here as I can see that the depth of the bookshelves isn't too deep and is about the same dimension as the the amp stand. The book racks can be placed just beside your Krell amp and CD player.

Due to the rough paint surface on oil painting and the canvas material, the oil painting can give a little diffusion effect. You will certainly hear a difference when you place an oil painting at the front wall, the larger the painting the better as a larger surface area will be more effective. The only question is the extent of difference that you can hear with the oil painting.

I would still suggest placing the bookshelves behind the speakers if there is sufficient space to do so, and then place the oil painting at the middle. I know that WAF will be an issue to most but I suppose the bookracks behind the speakers won't look too ugly or bad.

I forgot to mention about bass traps. If your room as problematic bass ie. loose bass or boomy bass, you can consider placing bass traps at both front corners of the room behind the speakers. Tong Li sells their own DIY bass traps and I find them to have a positive effect. It's a cylindrical trap which can act as diffusion or absorption as one side is made of strips of wood while the other side is cheap foam. It won't be comparable to good traps from established manufacturers(lacking in Malaysia) but it does work.

Small rooms will benefit more from room treatments since the reflection of sound waves off the walls are more prominent and direct which can cause flutter echoes. The room is very important and has a huge effect to the overall sound, and it's worthwhile to pay more attention to the room acoustics to optimise one's system. You might be surprised on the results if the room is done properly. However, most folks tend to neglect room treatments due to WAF as most of the systems are placed in the living room instead of a dedicated room. High WAF can be achieved but at a cost.

[auronthas]

Ryder, thanks for your suggestion, i do not think both bookshelves can be fitted into front wall beside the amp and CD player and i would not stack the amp and CD player to provide adequate ventilation.

I thought only rear-port type of speakers would require diffusion/absorption at front wall, correct me if i am wrong. Also, isn't diffusion/absorption is important at side walls as it's first sound reflection from the speakers?

By the way, what is approx. cost of DIY bass traps frorm TL?

Thanks in advance.

Wonder if i can see more Sonus Faberian posting your setup photo. LOL

[ryder]

Here are some pictures of rooms with treatments.



Bookshelves behind Kharma speakers.




Absorption/diffusion panels at front wall with bass traps at corners

[ryder]

It's not that speakers "require" absorption or diffussion panels at front walls.. Sound waves will radiate in all directions and almost all speakers either rear-ported, front ported, sealed, planar or omni-directional speakers will project sound not only to the listener but to the side and rear as well. So there will definitely be an effect if the bare walls are treated. For some advanced setup, the ceiling is also treated with a combination of absorption panels and diffusion.

MY system picture is in Audiogon and I am an active forummer over there. I have owned Sonus Faber Grand Piano speakers before for 3 years but I now use PMC and Proacs. I used to own B&W N805 speakers at a stage in my life.

[ryder]

If my memory serves me right it's about RM300 for a 4' high bass trap. I have 4 pieces, 2 stacked up on each other on each side of the room. Not too sure if price has increased. You can call them up to find out. THere are no imported bass traps in Malaysia as far as I know. Even if they are available they would cost a bomb. Some audiophiles in Singapore have imported ASC and Real Trap products directly from USA and shipping included they are too costly to be considered an option. For high-end systems it may be worthwhile though.

[auronthas]

If i move my current bookshelves (left and right) to front wall, then my side walls will be bare, my question is the front wall or side wall more important in term of acoustic treatment, the reason i ask is the bookshelves are not light to move around.

Yeah, i have read articles from forum, audiogon, stereophile, etc on room acoustic, it's require a deep study on the acoustic treatment, wall, ceiling.

Ryder, are you using the same username in audiogon? I do have the same username in audiogon but not very active.

[ryder]

Yes, I have the same username in audiogon.

Yes I agree that it is not a simple task to move big heavy bookshelves from the side wall to the front wall, and I understand your concern. Unfortunately I cannot give you the answer so the safest bet is to stick with the current set up and not to move them. If you happen to have additional bookracks in your house you can try to relocate them behind the speakers and hear the effect yourself.

Actually one needs to experiment as different rooms will give different effect. Some may prefer absorption at front wall and diffussion at rear wall while some would prefer vice versa. So the best solution is still for the listener to experiment and find out the best setup for his own room and listening preferences.

Good luck.

[auronthas]

Yes, i will consider add in bookshelves and/or painting when time is right, and i totally agree with your statement on trial-error on audio setup based own audition preference.

Enjoy the music and happy weekend.

[ryder]

I would suggest absorption for back wall first above your CD rack as that would create the next big effect. There isn't any purpose to place a curtain on a bare wall without any windows but if you decide to go ahead with it, you would need to get a thick fabric, probably thick wool to maximise the level of absorption. Another alternative is to get 2" Auralex absorption panels. Tong Li sells pyramids absorption panels but they are quite costly. The cheapest option to purchase aborption panels is from a local factory in Kepong called Pexafoam. They manufacture acoustic foams which have the egg-crates type. The quality is slightly inferior compared to equivalent foams as the density is lower. The website is www.pexafoam.com.my. You can try this out just for fun as it's cheap but I would not recommend this for long-term solution.

All acoustic foams are ugly to be placed on walls and but these can be covered up with acoustically-transparent fabric and framed up like the ones featured in the 2nd picture above.

[auronthas]

actually behind my listening chair is a stair leading to ground floor, the back wall is further away (my listening room is actually first floor family room), currently my CD racks are placed adjacent to the handrail of staircase, i just added these CD racks earlier this year, so i am thinking to get a thicker wool drop down curtain to be hanged on structural beam which is right above CD racks.

Ryder and guys, any clue when can get good quality/thick and reasonable price curtain? As my previous post, i need approx. 12' (length) and 10' (height) curtain size.

Thanks in advance.

[ryder]

OK, so now I know your system is not in a dedicated room but on the first floor living space. Since the back wall is much further away from the listening chair, the effect of placing absorption material like curtain may not be too prominent as the reflection of sound waves will only happen at the back wall and not at the middle of the room where the stairs start to go down. You may still hear a difference since reflections of sound waves off the back wall will be cut off a little by the curtain.

Personally if I were you I would pay more attention to the front wall and side walls but guess you can't do much to the side walls as there must be doors on the left and right leading to bedrooms.

Sorry, I don't have much experience with curtains. It's either you get a curtain specialist to do everything for you or you buy the fabric from the store(Kamdar or other fabric stores), do the curtain yourself with the railings installed by the specialist. If your wife or family members do not have experience in doing curtains, then the only solution is to hire the curtain specialist to do it for you. It's just a small portion of works and not the whole house anyway, so the cost wouldn't be too high. The curtain guys will be able to give better advice on where to get appropriate fabric that is required and may be able to source it for you.

It is good to note that you have chosen your electronics well to match the speakers. From previous experience, I know that Sonus Fabers speakers match well with Krell amps apart from tubes. I have tried many amps on the Sonus Faber Grand Pianos which include Classe CAP-100, ARC D130(solid state), YBA Integre and Plinius and still the best sound is obtained with the Krell KAV-300i. Although the KAV-300i is known to be a harsh and unrefined unit, the amp matches very well with the Sonus Fabers due to the inherent character of the speakers that is slightly laid back and having a warm sound signature. In this sense, I know that the Krell KAV-400XI will match well with the Concertino Domus. It's good to note that the Domus line of speakers is much aesthetically-pleasing to the eye with better build quality compared to the previous line that brings the series closer to the Cremona line. One thing that I admire about this Italian manufacturer is they not only make good-sounding speakers but beautiful speakers as well with their exquisite cabinet woodwork. The Concertino Domus does look great with their curved wood cabinet that is a testament to great Italian workmanship.

[auronthas]

Thanks again, Ryder, sorry not informing my room setup earlier, my mistake.

I have visited Kamdar, the wool fabric is not as thick as i think of, i prefer wool curtain like stage curtain, probably i would ask few AV specialist contractors and getting some fabric samples.

It's interesting and exciting to try out and experience out myself on room treatment and enjoying the improvement of sound over time.

Indeed, it's true that Italian speaker manufacturers deliver excellent craftsmanship on speaker cabinet yet its superb sounding, such as Sonus Faber, Chario, etc.

[ryder]

Auronthas, I have read some of your posts in Audiogon. It seems that you are seeking advice on CDP and cables to ameliorate some brightness in your system. My advice is to forget about CDP and cables as they are not the problem. The room is the biggest problem. You would need absorption to kill 1st order reflections from side walls, more so in small rooms when the speakers are close to the walls. For front wall you can experiment with both absorption and diffusion and see which will work better. I guess you would need more absorption than diffussion now although too much absorption will reduce the liveliness of the sound. Used sparingly and it will yield good results.

[auronthas]

What's your recommended absorption material besides fibre glass/rockwool, any natural material can be act as absorption? Currently, i find the sound produced is quite lively and musical probably due to the long room (22'), IMO reflection is not that serious.

Will newspapers (WAF not an issue, lol) stacked at both corners of front wall can act as bass trap? I don't have issue of boomy bass currently, but i am excited to hear if any sound improvement after stacking newspaper.

[ryder]

Other than thick fabric curtains as natural absorption material, I cannot think of anything else. You already have a carpet which helps(the thicker the better). A thick 2 seater fabric chair may help a little too.

If you are limited to speaker placement, you can try minimum toe-in or no toe-in to reduce perceived brightness.

If there isn't any bass issues, then no need to consider bass traps. Anyway the Concertino Domus goes down to 50Hz only and probably rolls off at higher frequency when placed further away from walls, so that may explain you are not experiencing any bass boom. You can try stacking newpapers at corners and see if there is an effect but personally I don't think there will be any difference.

[ryder]

By the way, I just checked out the Sonus Faber Concertino Domus stands. They are quite nice, something like the Cremona Auditor. Are the stands too pricey that you did not consider them? In my opinion it matches very well with the speakers.

[auronthas]

The original speaker stand for Concertino Domus is quite pricely (i think it's around RM 2k or more), actually the top of speaker stand is tilting, the speaker is best to have slight tilt probably it's design. I did place car door stopper (rubber) underneath between speaker base and top speaker stand for slight tilt but no sound difference was observed.

Any soft cushion can be helped to place on side wall as absorption? I have calculated the absorption panel distance (centre) to listening position, the formula is Y * X2 divided by X1 + X2 where Y is distance between speaker and listening position (parrallel with side wall), X1 is distance between speaker (centre) to side walls and X2 is distance between listening position to side walls. After calculation, i need to place absorption panel at 43 inches from my listening position on each side of walls.

It's fun to make trial and error to explore sound improvement.

Thanks again.

[ryder]

I am not sure what type of soft cushion are you referring to when you mention about them being absorption panels. For best effect, the absorption panels at side walls need to be elevated from the floor and higher than the top of speaker to absorp the high frequencies. I think the best bet is still to try out actual panel products.

The advantages of trying out these panels are they are not too huge, light and can be placed anywhere in the room where you want them to be to achieve the best effect. They can either be fixed on the wall as a frame, or can be placed on top of a low rack temporarily. Auralex wedge panel is a good start and it costs RM100 for a 2" thick 3'x2' panel, RM120 for a 4" thick panel of similar size. Prices are quoted by the Singaporean Auralex distributor the last time I enquired.

You can try two pieces first for each wall and see the effect yourself. I can give you the email contact of the person as she is a Malaysian and you can contact her directly. She works in Singapore but often travels back to her hometown in KL.

I have no affiliation with the company and am just a satisfied customer. She worked on my room, and if you see the pictures of my system in Audiogon, the panels at the side walls are framed up and wrapped in acoustically-transparent fabric in the colour of my choice.

The picture below shows how the Auralex wedge would look like in their original condition.



Alternatively, you can try pyramid foams sold by Tong Li. I prefer the wedge myself as it looks nicer and has a higher density.

[auronthas]

Interesting !

Thanks for the recommendation, besides the side walls (one piece Auralex wedge each), do you recommend to add Auralex wedge on the front wall? Is one piece adequate ? (room width is 10')

Please give me her email address, i may contact her.

[ryder]

Her contact is as follows:-

Cindy Mar
Swedish Statement Pte Ltd
email: cindy@swedishstatement.com.sg
Address : 04-11/12 The Adelphi, 1 Coleman Street, Singapore, 179803
Tel/fax: +65-6333 4863
hp : +65-8183 8036

She got many pictures of customers' room emailed to me last time but I can't upload them here as I can't seem to figure out how to use the upload file function. If you have an email address I can forward the same email to you.

Can put panels on front wall mix with diffussion but need to experiment. Too many absorption panels all over the place is not good as it will make the sound dead and lifeless. If possible can request to loan a few pieces to try out. She got a few pieces of her own.

She also might have some clone RPG wood omnifussors/diffusors but I think you don't need them as book racks can be used as substitute.

[auronthas]

Thanks, just pm my email address.

[Hi-Fi 4 Sale]

Auronthas,
Not sure whether you're interested... I have a few pieces of acoustic foam bought in Australia many years ago (2000?). Square-shaped, grey... I'll post the pics later.

Looking at your room, they may help when placed at the edge where the front wall, sidewalls & floor meet.

They're not very nice to look at but they definitely help tame some room issues. I'm using a different room now, hence they're no longer needed. It's probably pointless to sell them for RM10 a piece. If you're interested, I'll pass them (4 pcs) to you for free at the Hi-Fi 4 Sale gathering.

[auronthas]

That's great and generous of you, i am looking forward the acoustic foam and join the hifi gathering to learn from hifi gurus.

Thanks a lot.

[Hi-Fi 4 Sale]

They measure 1ft x 1 ft, with mirror images of each other.

[auronthas]

They look lovely and robust! You must take care them well.

Which two pieces need to fix to side wall (first reflection point)?

[Hi-Fi 4 Sale]

They look lovely and robust! You must take care them well.

Which two pieces need to fix to side wall (first reflection point)?

No la... the pics look better than they actually are.

[- br@d -]

Hey guys... have any of you heard the Sonus Faber Musica amp? Someone was offering me a good price for it used but not sure how it compares to the likes of Krell, Primare or other amps.

[fizi]

hi brad..i heard the MUSICA before at kl av show 07/08 better u go too
Perfect Hi Fi and audition it...during the av show their using MUSICA
and SONUS speaker but i dont know which model of sonus speaker...
p/s-other then subwoofer what other things u want to let go??

[Johan]

I am using Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus with Pathos Logos amp and Classe CD player. Transparent Ultra balance interconnect and Siltech New York speaker cable. The sound is awesome. The high frequency sound really sparkle. Bass is full body. Female and male vocal is believably fantastic. The Logos is a hybrid amp and is noted for its remarkable midrange. Zero listening fatique no matter what kind of music you play. Its really a sonic nirvana.

[capkapak]

Peeps,

Wondering what sort of monies is the SF Grand Piano Domus HT system selling for these days? I see on Perfect HiFi's website they've got the SF GPD system bundled with a Denon but I'm just after the speakers.

I'd call them but only when I get back to KL next week.

[lawken]

Hi all SF Lover,

Very happy to see all SF owner here. Wana to sharing my system here.I owned 2 pair of Guarneri homage before, been pairing with my curent CJ premier10 preamp, Meridian 588cdp, Mark Levinson 332.5 poweramp & Jeff Rowland model 8Ti HC (High current version). Cables are Van den hul MC silver & NBS signature interconnect. Speaker cables was Van den hul revelation. NBS signature & JPS powercord. What a beautiful sound of Guarneri, especially mid timbre. Awesome sound stage.

But currently i really love this rare speaker - EXTREMA. When Guarneri has gone to someone. Sharing pics here.

[hushymushy]

wah bro lawken....u hv 1 awesome setup
respect!

[lawken]

Here are some old and new system pics. Infact, i jz hv small period in HIFI field. Is abt 4 yrs +. I'm still struggling to make a good placement for my EXTREMAs. Now better sound improved by using TOAC footers compared with last time. I hv noticed that SF speakers has the same mid range timbre. (especially female vocal) Love it so much.....incredible when listening to jazz music.

[lawken]

And more here...

[- br@d -]

wah liow... Lawken, You're truly our own Malaysian GodFather of Sonus Faber. Makes my Cremona Auditor looks like a small kid compared to your Sonus that you're having. Great set-up hey!

[lawken]

wah liow... Lawken, You're truly our own Malaysian GodFather of Sonus Faber. Makes my Cremona Auditor looks like a small kid compared to your Sonus that you're having. Great set-up hey!

Since now we're SF fans here, i suggest SF fans try to post more owned system pic. So we can sharing what is good method or skill for SF speaker.

[skydna]

Wow i see not only rare and few pair of sonus faber shock us
somemore gryphon,jeff rowland,mark levinson,meridian~~omg ~~~
i dint see krell, mind to share which power amp do the best with sonus faber?

[car o scope]

Wow... that's a wonderful collection of Sonus Faber!!
The systems are the dreams of many people..

The Gryphon is such a rare thing here too..

[Opera]

Wondering which is better in term of vocal ? Comparing SF Concerto Home with Harbeth HL Compact 7, I reckoned Harbeth is better than SF. Not sure is it the matching problem.

[hushymushy]

i think i will faint......paiseh wanna post up my low end rig....i tot mine was ok
now hv term my one low end liao....respect!

[fizi]

nevermind..we should proud that what we had...

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