Re: Sonus Faber - discussion thread

[hifikaki]

car o scope,
The HT is part of my system, the Marantz is mainly for HTPC until BD is cheap to buy.

Johan,
I not compare the grand Piano with Cremona, so cant really give commend how diff between the 2. since u plan to upgrape to Cremona M, maybe u can audition them at dealer place.
I place my set in my living room, not sure how big is the 'resonator' as any huge or wierd thing are ban due to wife factor.
So far no boomy issue for me.

[Johan]

The resonator, like a small metal pot, similar to a size of 20sen coin mounted on top of a flat wood of 2" square and hanged on the front, side and rear walls as per the desingner spec. So nobody will notice it anyway. I will be trying it soon at my home.

[car o scope]

This kind of resonator that you guys mentioned are the ones which we saw in the KLIAV show where the exhibitors put on the wall behind the systems??
I saw CMY using a lot for the Dynaudio C4 setup.

[Johan]

I just remembered the CMY guy 'Dicky' was saying that this resonator was reviewed by 6moon so I did a search and here is the review address, http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticsystem/resonators.html. I heard something good with my ears done by this resonators therefore I intend to share it with you guys. I belive you guys will do the same, share the good/bad things about hifi products.

[hifikaki]

wow, it not cheap leh for these small piece of resonator.. Johan, have u try it yourself?

[sonyman1]

Finally got my SF setup and running

SF Cremona
Marantz SA11s1
Audia Flight One intergrated
JPS power cord
Purist XLR
AFA speaker cable(will be replaced later)

Hi hifikaki, i think that is a wonderful setup. how much was the cremona that you bought? was it used or new one ? but only thing is the speaker is in the middle of the hall, i presume, so it looks like there is a speaker standing right infront of the hall, but overall i think thats a very romantic speaker, hope you have enough juice to push this babe all the way,

[Johan]

Ya the resonator is not cheap. I have not tried it yet but soon will try the basic setup comprising 3 pieces and from there upgrade to 6 pcs. I think 6 pcs is enough for me.

[car o scope]

I am not sure if I can really get the vast differences when Franck (sorry if wrong spelling) did the tunings on his resonators at the KLIAV.
My friend who has also visited the same room said that he felt the differences - the sound stage widens.

Please keep us updated regarding the resonator if one of us here is investing.

[hifikaki]

Sonyman,

not really, when i close the sliding door, it will turn to dedicate audio room. though the Audia only 100w, but it very powerful, i think it better my old Gryphon Callista2200.

The Cremona bought used..I considered the price is good even i have to spend $$$$ to replace the mid driver.

[car o scope]

Will the Marantz AVR face difficulties driving the Cremona?
Or the Cremona is actually easy to drive type?

[sonyman1]

hi hifikaki that is really good, now we all can see that it is a dedicated room, at least. well i think 100W should be able to push it, but i think the cremona is at 4 ohm, so if ur amp is 100W 8 ohm then you get 200W at 4 ohm.

[hifikaki]

Will the Marantz AVR face difficulties driving the Cremona?
Or the Cremona is actually easy to drive type?

Not the Marantz driving the Cremona, the pre out connect to Audia.

[mugenfoo]

hi hifikaki that is really good, now we all can see that it is a dedicated room, at least. well i think 100W should be able to push it, but i think the cremona is at 4 ohm, so if ur amp is 100W 8 ohm then you get 200W at 4 ohm.

Not necessarily. Depends on the amp. Most japanese amps and some british & american amps WILL NOT double up the power into the loudspeakers if the impedance is halved.

Coz these crap-ass amps got high output impedance and if rated 100W into 8ohm, it would be like maybe 170 or 180W into 4ohm only.

[car o scope]

Will the Marantz AVR face difficulties driving the Cremona?
Or the Cremona is actually easy to drive type?

Not the Marantz driving the Cremona, the pre out connect to Audia.

Sorry ya.. Need to clarify some things.
Does that mean the Marantz AVR is driving the surround speakers?
And then the front is driven by the Audia while the Marantz act as pre-amp?
Need to learn this kinda stuff..

Wonder how well Sonus faber will perform as surround channels...

[hifikaki]

[/quote]

Sorry ya.. Need to clarify some things.
Does that mean the Marantz AVR is driving the surround speakers?
And then the front is driven by the Audia while the Marantz act as pre-amp?
Need to learn this kinda stuff..

Wonder how well Sonus faber will perform as surround channels... [/quote]

The marantz AVR only drive center and surround, and act as pre-amp when play AV. Most hi-fi pre-amp or intergrated amp has AV pass thru which will by pass the pre-amp section of the intergrated amp. Unfortunately my Audia has 5.1 input but no AV pass thru, so both the marantz and Audia can be used to control front speaker volumn in av mode.

[mugenfoo]

wah.. SF for surround speakers .. abit wasted isnt it ?

[car o scope]

A bit wasted but there are some people out there having whole surround set of Sf..

In fact, there are some models purposely developed as surround speakers by Sf.

[bimmerman]

Hi folks, Just wondering if anyone here has modded their Sonus Faber speakers or are planning to do so. You know, like changing the capacitors in the crossover network or changing the internal wiring.

Some say modding your Sonus Faber is like adding ketchup or sambal belacan to your fine dining. You'd kill the fine dining experiance and the SF character. Others say the character remains while better caps and internal wiring can unleash the full potential of your SF.

I'd like to hear opinions from both sides.

Thanks!

[azri]

poket suda pennoh, tangan suda gatai, telinga suda tepu

[bimmerman]

Wahai sifu Azri, lu punya advice gitu je ke? Share lah sedikit petua yang useful. You master of one liners lah beb!

[azri]

encik bimmer, my fullrange yilek xovers & caps, how to share!! hehe

[bimmerman]

Your Sonus Faber got no crossover and caps??? No internal wiring??? Fuallamak! Macam tu Kantoi la beb!

[bimmerman]

Hi folks, Just wondering if anyone here has modded their Sonus Faber speakers or are planning to do so. You know, like changing the capacitors in the crossover network or changing the internal wiring.

Some say modding your Sonus Faber is like adding ketchup or sambal belacan to your fine dining. You'd kill the fine dining experiance and the SF character. Others say the character remains while better caps and internal wiring can unleash the full potential of your SF.

I'd like to hear opinions from both sides.

Thanks!

Anybody care to share some useful info?

[mugenfoo]

they all boor-chaap lah.

[sph]

I have recently modded my Concerto.
I have changed the capacitor in the tweeter section and the performance has jumped to a whole new level.
The difference isn't subtle. Previously the speakers sounded warm but a little veiled (knowing what it can do now!). Nothing wrong with it then, but now it has gone to the high end (in my opinion).
Although there is a greater level of clarity, it is very musical. It isn't fatiguing to the ears, even at high volume. My spine tingled when I listen to it the first time after the mod. I LOVE IT !! The caps were not even run-it yet!
In fact I have just ordered some more capacitors to experiment. These are supposed to be even better than the ones I have installed. But they are not cheap (relatively). There are some that can go up to almost RM1k per cap. But these caps are reported to be heavenly (and huge)!
Check out this website http://bildarkiv.hififorum.nu/Ryssen/Pic/Komponenter/Cap.html

The original cap I replaced is almost a fifth the size of the new cap. It did take some effort to fit into the speaker cabinet.
I am planning to place the crossover unit outside the speaker. My sifu says that the capacitors are affected by the vibration caused by the sound waves inside the cabinet. Placing the x-over outside will also give me the chance to experiment with other caps without much fuss.
I am even thinking of changing the inductors to the air-core type. There are 3 inductors in each speaker.

So far the present cap cost me about RM100+ each (total RM200+), but it was worth more than that with the new level of performance.

Anybody keen on a A-B with my modded Concerto? Mine is the bi-wirable model, probably 9 years old. But be fore-warned, there will be no turning back once you hear the difference! Hehe.

[dixchen]

Months back my friend modified his Sonus Faber Concerto ( the original 4 binding post version) and actually replaced the capacitors and resistors inside to the V Cap OIMP 3.3uF and some Kiwame carbon type resistors.

Reason why he did that was the Sonus had a very pronounced highs coming off its tweeter no matter what source you were feeding to it. That was getting very etchy and unpleasant when feeding some source material to it. Some whom I have consulted said its sensitive well I just call it unbearable! THe mids were playing fine, only complain were the tweeters.

This perhaps was the biggest change or improvement as doing so not only took that problem out but smoothened the sound so much that it was so much easier to listen to without losing any details or alter tonality. Still the Sonus Faber sound coming out through it.

A marked improvement effort I would say.

He did not touch the internal wiring though.

[azri]

picture pls

[bimmerman]

Wow! thanks for the input guys. Sounds like somthing worth doing. How Mugenfoo? you want to mod your SF? I'm highly tempted already. Although i'm pretty happy with the sound right now from tweaks elsewhere, like silclear and changing to better biwire jumpers, I feel there is still some room for improvement in the transparency department. Just a tad.

But I was told (i've never opened up my Minima Amator to confirm) that the crossover inside the Minima Amator is sealed in some black tar/goo like stuff for dampening and probably also to keep espionage at bay. Can anyone confirm this?

[mugenfoo]

if it ain\'t broken, don\'t fix it.

Besides .. to change the sound of my SF, i just need to use a different amp.

Got a crap-ass Sony AV amp to use, or if i want some super fuzzy warm + sweetness ... the Exposure XX.

More power + some grunt, and it would be the KAV ...
Or if going to the extreme, my \"other\" Krell that could propel the woofer drivers out to the point of being a launched projectile.

or i just won\'t bother .... am really jaded from all these equipment tweaking these days. My time is more precious to be wasted on music consumption + hifi4sale.net postings instead.

[sph]

Yes, there is some tar-like stuff in there to dampen the vibrations. The stuff has sort of hardened but it can be removed by applying some heat from a hair-dryer. It can then be reapplied after the mod.

Before this I have read quite a bit of write-ups about the vast improvements resulting from these capacitor mods on speakers. Even CD players benefit from capacitor change too. I then decided to do the mod 2 months ago. I have not regretted it since.

The mod is reversible. If you don't like it you merely unsolder it and solder the old cap back. Simple as that. But I doubt you will want to see another cheapo capacitor in your equipment ever again after that.
Once you have tried it, you may want better caps to go further into blissful territory. That's what I am planning to do in a couple of weeks' time when I get hold of some other different caps. I just can't wait for the caps to arrive!

If your SF is good already, I think you will be in audio nirvana after the mods. Even my wife and children were really pleased with the sonic improvements.

Read what others have to say about these mods.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1164387495&read&3&4&
http://www.justblair.co.uk/mission-753-crossover-capacitor-swap.html
Search the web for more info.

[hushymushy]

hello all SF sifus...wanna seek all the sifus opinions here
i've recently just bought the SF Grand Piano Domus
two questions here:

1. Would Musical Fidelity A300, a dual mono amp suitable to drive it? Since it's able to give 250watts @ 4ohms....power i don't think its an issue....the thing is....this unit is only viewed over the internet and not able to audit it with my speakers

2. any sifus have tested the GP with Kimber Kables 8TC before?

any recommendation on amp and speaker cables?
current budget only allow these upgrades...
of coz later would be the cdp

[mugenfoo]

hushymushy,

Good to see u in hifi4sale, the REAL hi-fi forum for true hi-fi nutheads unlike all the Edifier PC speaker, headphones, ipod earphones and assorted junk-ass crap at lowyat.net.

[hushymushy]

hushymushy,

Good to see u in hifi4sale, the REAL hi-fi forum for true hi-fi nutheads unlike all the Edifier PC speaker, headphones, ipod earphones and assorted junk-ass crap at lowyat.net.

haha mugenfoo taikor......lowyat.net is where all the computer fellas with the interest of PCs first then only hifi mar

here is hifi over anything else
hehehehehehe

[car o scope]

hello all SF sifus...wanna seek all the sifus opinions here
i've recently just bought the SF Grand Piano Domus
two questions here:

1. Would Musical Fidelity A300, a dual mono amp suitable to drive it? Since it's able to give 250watts @ 4ohms....power i don't think its an issue....the thing is....this unit is only viewed over the internet and not able to audit it with my speakers

Suggest you to find something at local shops that you can test with your speakers.

[hushymushy]

yeah i suppose having to hear the amp with my speakers would be best

[wabun]

hushymushy wrote:hello all SF sifus...wanna seek all the sifus opinions here
i've recently just bought the SF Grand Piano Domus
two questions here:

1. Would Musical Fidelity A300, a dual mono amp suitable to drive it? Since it's able to give 250watts @ 4ohms....power i don't think its an issue....the thing is....this unit is only viewed over the internet and not able to audit it with my speakers

try Krell or Euphonic Research Hybrid Class A, they match quite well..

[mugenfoo]

Which Krell ?

hushymushy wrote:hello all SF sifus...wanna seek all the sifus opinions here
i've recently just bought the SF Grand Piano Domus
two questions here:

1. Would Musical Fidelity A300, a dual mono amp suitable to drive it? Since it's able to give 250watts @ 4ohms....power i don't think its an issue....the thing is....this unit is only viewed over the internet and not able to audit it with my speakers

try Krell or Euphonic Research Hybrid Class A, they match quite well..

[car o scope]

hushymushy,

Wanna go round and listen listen at hifi shops during weekends?
If you have patience, you can slowly hunt for the right amp.
BTW, what's your current amp driving the GPD?

[WongKN]

This (hunting for the right amp) is one of the most enjoyable part of the hobby, besides enjoying the sound of course.

[hushymushy]

hushymushy,

Wanna go round and listen listen at hifi shops during weekends?
If you have patience, you can slowly hunt for the right amp.
BTW, what's your current amp driving the GPD?

i am currently using Audio Analogue Verdi which produces 70watts @ 8ohms
what i feel lacking about this particular amp is it's ability to control the GP
previously on my concertinos, it performed very well indeed
but i guess it takes a different amp to drive the GP
my current GP has ran in about 100hours or so
and of coz it will need more time to run in, say another 100hours at least...
although the sound from the GP has changed for the better within this first 100 hours, i still feel that the grip at especially at the lower end frequencies is still not good enough
it's basically still muddy and lack of grip

take for instance....i was playing Legends of Jazz just last night
the double bass reproduction was muddy

and of coz i plan to go around kl to audit some amps
but not every weekend ler
wifey will nag nag nag...hehehehehehehehe

currently....here's my setup

Amp: Audio Analogue Verdi (about 500 hours used)
CDP: Marantz CD-7300 (about 300 hours used)
Interconnects: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Speaker cables: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Power cable: cardas (can't remember the model)..bought second hand, XLO Reference 2 (also bought second hand)
power conditioner: some local brand...nothing fantastic
speakers: SF Grand Piano


current speaker positioning:

1. 1 meter away from back wall
2. 2.5 meters apart
3. i would say roughly 30degrees toe in
4. listening position is 8 feet away from speaker

hall size is 16feet wide and 20feet long
room acoustics is really bad since my unit is in my living hall
to the right speakers, i do not have a partition wall between my living and dining
left speakers has a wall with windows on it.

prolly later i will snap a picture of my living hall to give you guys an idea of how bad my setup is

[car o scope]

i am currently using Audio Analogue Verdi which produces 70watts @ 8ohms
what i feel lacking about this particular amp is it's ability to control the GP
previously on my concertinos, it performed very well indeed
but i guess it takes a different amp to drive the GP
my current GP has ran in about 100hours or so
and of coz it will need more time to run in, say another 100hours at least...
although the sound from the GP has changed for the better within this first 100 hours, i still feel that the grip at especially at the lower end frequencies is still not good enough
it's basically still muddy and lack of grip

currently....here's my setup

Amp: Audio Analogue Verdi (about 500 hours used)
CDP: Marantz CD-7300 (about 300 hours used)
Interconnects: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Speaker cables: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Power cable: cardas (can't remember the model)..bought second hand, XLO Reference 2 (also bought second hand)
power conditioner: some local brand...nothing fantastic
speakers: SF Grand Piano

Hushy is very humble.
Your setup is better than a lot of people already.
Now, you just need to aim to make them sound better.

I see that you have quite a number of XLOs too.
And your components are quite new.

You just need more time in your quest for the right amp.
Anyway, what's the budget for your new amp?

[mugenfoo]

hushymushy,

Wanna go round and listen listen at hifi shops during weekends?
If you have patience, you can slowly hunt for the right amp.
BTW, what's your current amp driving the GPD?

i am currently using Audio Analogue Verdi which produces 70watts @ 8ohms
what i feel lacking about this particular amp is it's ability to control the GP
previously on my concertinos, it performed very well indeed
but i guess it takes a different amp to drive the GP
my current GP has ran in about 100hours or so
and of coz it will need more time to run in, say another 100hours at least...
although the sound from the GP has changed for the better within this first 100 hours, i still feel that the grip at especially at the lower end frequencies is still not good enough
it's basically still muddy and lack of grip

take for instance....i was playing Legends of Jazz just last night
the double bass reproduction was muddy

and of coz i plan to go around kl to audit some amps
but not every weekend ler
wifey will nag nag nag...hehehehehehehehe

currently....here's my setup

Amp: Audio Analogue Verdi (about 500 hours used)
CDP: Marantz CD-7300 (about 300 hours used)
Interconnects: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Speaker cables: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Power cable: cardas (can't remember the model)..bought second hand, XLO Reference 2 (also bought second hand)
power conditioner: some local brand...nothing fantastic
speakers: SF Grand Piano


current speaker positioning:

1. 1 meter away from back wall
2. 2.5 meters apart
3. i would say roughly 30degrees toe in
4. listening position is 8 feet away from speaker

hall size is 16feet wide and 20feet long
room acoustics is really bad since my unit is in my living hall
to the right speakers, i do not have a partition wall between my living and dining
left speakers has a wall with windows on it.

prolly later i will snap a picture of my living hall to give you guys an idea of how bad my setup is

The AA Verdi is not known to be a powerful amp despite its 70W rating.
As most already know, power ratings are very misleading.

A well built 50Watter can play with more slam and dynamics than a typical budget Japanese Consumer brand Amp rated at 200W, for example.

Sad to say, a better (although far from the best) guideline would be to look at the Price category & Class range of a given amp. If you have set yourself a budget, then u can go about looking for the Amp that would give the best XXX or YYYY sonic quality to go with your Grand Pianos. Maybe some people go for more refined vocals and sweetness, while some people will go for bigger bass extension and dynamics.

But its always a compromise even at the high-end scale. So you can decide what can u compromise abit, to gain some other better qualities. Given the budget that you have decided to spend on.

[kkthen]

currently....here's my setup

Amp: Audio Analogue Verdi (about 500 hours used)
CDP: Marantz CD-7300 (about 300 hours used)
Interconnects: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Speaker cables: XLO Ultra (about 700 hours used)
Power cable: cardas (can't remember the model)..bought second hand, XLO Reference 2 (also bought second hand)
power conditioner: some local brand...nothing fantastic
speakers: SF Grand Piano

Very nice system. I never hear SF Grand Piano. But my friend ayre cx 7e + krell 400xi + SF concerto domus at living hall is good combination.

[PcWork]

i might host up a gathering of sonus faber owner. including forumer / non forumer. and place is maybe perfect hifi in wisma MPL.
everything still in discussion. stay in tune.

offer a time for sonus owner to meet up, talk around, discussion, and maybe exchange phone number.

will post in both lyn and here once i confirmed the date and time.

[hushymushy]

i have heard the AR 60i.....very nice....but my pockets are not that deep yet

has anyone tried the Musica amp with GP?

[hushymushy]

also, i found a Krell 400xi second hand going for RM8500....
is this price ok? unit is roughly 3 years old
black colour

[PcWork]

musica with grand piano is ok ok only. but still i prefer it more than krell + GP.
it's my personal preference though.

[htkaki]

also, i found a Krell 400xi second hand going for RM8500....
is this price ok? unit is roughly 3 years old
black colour

Wow, very pricey indeed for a 400xi.

The 400xi is more refined that its predecessor. Powerful and can easily drives SF.

[hushymushy]

hhhmmmm......needs serious audition ler
hahahahahahaha
when I was in Bangkok, listened to a McIntosh solid state with Grand Piano
i think it was a MA6000. simple amp but really made the GP sang
something which left a deep impression in my mind

[hushymushy]

another amp that left a great impression on my mind is Unison Research Unico SE and the Audio Research V60i

both Unison Research and McIntosh were both auditioned in Bangkok.
my top choices apart from Audio Research

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