Re: Sonus Faber - discussion thread

[grantorino]

With 15k Budget, pls recommend the ideal set up, with SF speakers. System will placed in a area 10ft(w) x 15ft (L) 2nd floor living hall. Mostly i listen to jazznBlues and vocals.

[azri]

dude, if its in au, i believe its becoz of 'genuine' reasons
futhermore, their salaries are high, in fact one of the highest paid
construction workers can earn up to au2000/week
a senior garbage truck drive can make up to au100k/year

but if its in bolehland, its expensive becoz....

[car o scope]

I think the tax structure here has something to do with the pricing.
We dont have to compare far, just our neighbour Spore will do.
Lots of electronics items are priced lower there.

grantorino,
You need a complete set up of new items or can mix with used items?

[grantorino]

car o scope, mix with new or used can do.

[CH]

i know the best amp for SF concertino or concerto, many have tried it and happy. very cost effective.

[mugenfoo]

so whats the best amp for Concerto or Concertino ?

[car o scope]

CH,

What's the best amp? Can share with us here?


grantorino,

Maybe I could not suggest you the brands as this is a matter of preference.
I would just give my opinion. You can get used speakers, amp and cables.
As for CDP, it is better to get a new unit.

Get a good pair of speakers and a great amp to match them.
These 2 are the most important components to start with.
Happy hunting!!

[CH]

Accidental findings
So, there was a guy who had tried out Krell, Bryston and many others hi power pricey amp. Not thing spectacular. One fine day, his amp broke down and it happened that there was an old AUDIOLAB 8000P around. Hooked it up, magic happened. There is an unthinkable synergy between SF and 8000P. Let me stress here, 8000P not others. Forget about 8000C, forget about chinese made Audiolab.

Since then, a few had followed and none regretted. This combo had demonstrated the low bass come from the wall. Another tips, get a 28" stand. Why? I am not telling more but you write what you experience.

[azri]

how much will 8000p cost for used & brand new in bolehland?
what preamp to match with 8000P?

[mugenfoo]

8000Q lah...
Sure will match the 8000P nicely.


@CH,
The wall doesn't guarantee low bass. Only speakers that are designed to go really low will give u low bass. Bracing speakers close to the wall only gives "louder or boomier bass", not necessarily low.

[car o scope]

There are few sets of 8000P on the For Sale list previously.
I have not heard of the Audiolab + SF combo before..

Now, I am trying to get improvement from my SFCD and room.
I cannot place my speakers near the wall due to the size of my room.

[mugenfoo]

I've had SF Concerto & SF Electa with Audiolab 8000A Integrated before. Nice, but nothing spectacular.

Have also heard 8000C/8000P (the black ones, when Audiolab was still UK made, before the TAG electronics buyover) with a whole bunch of Rogers, Celestions, Epos. No biggie.

The old black 8000 series in general is quite clinical & dry-sounding (only the then-Mission Cyrus & Cyrus II would be drier, like a smoker's amp). Thats the signature Audiolab sound. Good to go with the warmth of the old SF or the fluidity of the '90s Celestions & Rogers. But with the newer SF like the SFCD, i'd be skeptical.

Actually, many a renowned audio shops in PJ sold alot of Audiolabs/ Rogers combos as bread & butter back in the 90s.

[CH]

There is a lot of mystery on hifi synergy. In this case, 8000C is a sonic detrimental to SF. Choose a neutral pre. 8000P has an ability 2 drive speaker. Rule of thumb, do not take what I say, trust your ears.
Another good fren suggested holfi is also an ideal choice.

SF requires room to breath, I am suggesting place em against the wall. A well setup SF will give the impression that the bass is coming from the wall.

[azri]

yup, it depends a lot on your setup that reflects your taste of music.
one can claim so & so combo are very good, but can be overuled by others that has different taste of listening.

i listen mostly to rock music, i have serious doubt to those who
listens to jazz & pop & claimed their setup sounded great & very musical

[car o scope]

yup, it depends a lot on your setup that reflects your taste of music.
one can claim so & so combo are very good, but can be overuled by others that has different taste of listening.

i listen mostly to rock music, i have serious doubt to those who
listens to jazz & pop & claimed their setup sounded great & very musical

I agree with what you said here..
I have friends who have no Hi Fi also commented that my system sounds not so good to their ears.
I think as long as the system suits our own ears, then it is OK.

[CH]

I guess that there is a common sonic judgement which allows a narrow toleration. My approach is judging the setup by refering to the owner's musical taste and if he is a vocal man, access his setup on vocal and vice versa. Logically speaking, the owner will tune his setup to his liking. Of course, if you judge a vocal based sertup from dynamic and transient, fren can turn enemy.
As much as I m not a Naim fan, I acknowlwdge their rawness and powess when doing the rock stuff. The same goes to SET with vocal, I accept that it is magical with the exception of 211 and 845 with ultra sensitive speakers. They can rock.
So, how then with so many different taste and mouth of war is inevitable.
Dun judge mid fi with hi fi perspective (hi fi tends to perform well on all type of music) because if you do, you are as if using Bridgestone performance tyre on Kancil.

[azri]

IMO, a group of similar music interest with good knowledge on hi fidelity
can more or less determine the SQ of a setup
theres lots of hifi reviewes & diys group evolves from one or similar taste of music & SQ nowdays, but have different setups
even im having a tuff time deciding on buying & settling down as the stories beyond recommendations never ends..

* my daihatsu cuore has bridgestone shoes & they look fat!! i likeee..

[car o scope]

There is no harm trying out the Audiolab + SF combo, if it is free.

There is no such thing as best in HiFi, though.
Nothing can define what is the best.
So, basically, I am looking for what I like the most.
And at the meantime, I know what I want...

[mugenfoo]

yeah .... after listening to the the SFCD with the KAV-300i huh?

[car o scope]

Something like that.. hahaha..
From there, I know what kind of sound I should aim for..

But now is not the time yet. Need to save..
Still, I wish to audit a few more amps before making any decision.

[mugenfoo]

In a nutshell, a good Amplifier is all about power and control.
One without the other would be "crap sound".

[car o scope]

Dont worry, bro..

I will keep you updated but not so soon ya..
Yeah.. Power and control..
These are the main features that an amp should have.

[nicholas_1213]

Hi, another SFCD user here, driving it with NAD Silver S100 pre and Counterpoint Solid 1E Power amp, very satisfied with the outcome Will dump away my old NAD3020i soon hehe...

[car o scope]

Wow.. Upgraded already.. Congrats...
It must be so much more enjoyable now.

[sllee]

Can someone advise me on the best match of SF speakers with Mcintosh amp. Thanks

[car o scope]

Bro sllee,
You can have an audition at Perfect HiFi with the amp.
They have many pairs of SF.. Lots of audition to do..
Dont know which pair you prefer. Scared to recommend you the speakers. Better you try them on your own.

_________________________________________________________
With some high spirit, I took the plunge to do experiment again.
I spent the whole Saturday night moving things in my room.
Energy totally drained and arms are numbed.

The sound stage is better now.
Still feel that my SFCD are a bit shy on the bass.

[sph]

Hi all,
This is my first posting.
I own a SF Concerto, the last of the bi-wireable model. Amp driving it is a Plinius 8200, a 185w/c and the source is an old Denon CDP2800AL. The opamps in the Denon has been changed to the OPA627.
My cables (power, IC and speaker) are all DIYed. I have used a AQ Indigo2 speaker cable before, but have ditched that for a simple DIY one.

Just last week I changed a capacitor in the Concerto.
The result ? .....WOW! That was just the initial result with only a couple hours of running-in the capacitor. I was advised that it will take about 40 hrs to run-in the cap before the sound will really flourish.

There is now less grain in the music - very musical. I just can't wait for the 40 hours to pass before I add a by-pass cap to further enhance the sound.

Of course, making such changes will void the warranty of your equipment.

[- br@d -]

Hi Sph,
You change to V-caps or M-caps?

I just change my caps to M-caps Silver/Gold/Oil on my tube amp running on SF Cremona Auditor. Sounds much better in all areas specifically the "bowling alley" effect.(depth) and soundstage.

By the way, I still feel that Sonus sounds best with Tube Amps if you're into Vocals.

[sph]

Hi br@d,
I changed it to the M-cap Supreme. I know the S/G/O would have brought the performance up but it was too expensive and the extra performance from it didn't justify the cost. Just using a by-pass cap would have done the job just as well.
I have a pair of russian teflon caps to use as by-pass, but may want to try out the Vishay (which is quite cheap) first.

Ah.. but the Plinius is more tube-like than most other SS amps.

[car o scope]

Anyone here knows how and where to get the original speaker-to-stand screws for Minima Amator?

[mugenfoo]

any nuts & bolts shop will do ? just find the right thread size lah .
i believe the SF uses standard Metric M6 or M8 (or M-something) bolts.

[car o scope]

Actually, I was asking on behalf of my friend. He is using some sort of bolts with the same thread size and he wants to try his luck in getting original ones.

[sph]

Perhaps you can tell your friend not to waste his time and $$ looking for the original bolts.
It's going to cost him a fair bit to acquire the original ones.
Esthetically, it won't make be noticed as it is at the bottom of the stands. Sonically, I doubt there will be any difference.
Spend the $$ on a few nice CDs instead. That's $$ better spent.
But at the end of the day, it's still his choice and $$. So he decides .......

[mugenfoo]

agree...

[car o scope]

OK.. No problemo... Will forget about the original bolts.
I borrowed his MF A3.5 to test with my SFCD too.
So, I have to take annual leave today and stay put to run the test whole day.

[azri]

aha abusing the system eh?

[car o scope]

I wanted to get a feeling on how a 150 watter will sound like in my room.
I am glad that my friend lent me his A3.5 for 24hrs.
Did the A/B test between the A3.5 and XX to know the differences.

[azri]

you will notice everything sounds different

[car o scope]

Yes. Of course there will be.
Just a few tracks will do and the differences are clear.

[azri]

the thing is, u will always want to listen to music loud once u're into 150 watter

[car o scope]

I would say it really depends on what you are listening and what you like to listen.

I just wanted to hear how the sound of the SFCD being driven by a 150 watter.
I have already heard of SFCD being driven by a 150 watter Krell at a friend's place. (They know who they are.. hahahahahaha)
Now, I got the taste in my room.

[auronthas]

What's your finding and observation from SFCD driven by MF A 3.5? Pls share with us

[car o scope]

What's your finding and observation from SFCD driven by MF A 3.5? Pls share with us

Right. The result of the test. ( Findings from a HiFi junior. )

When I play Cai Qin's Chris & Friends album with the Exp XX, the vocal sounds a bit dim and the source of the sound is not exactly coming from an accurate / consistent spot between the two speakers. In short, the vocal is not focused enough. It sounds wide and I can feel that the voice is less energetic.

The A3.5 is producing a vocal coming from an accurate small spot.
In short, the vocal is more focused and also more energetic. It is like Cai Qin has more stamina.
(Sorry guys, really not good at describing how it sounds. Hope you dont mind.)

And then the background music does seem to appear with more clarity though I would say the Exp XX is not far behind. The A3.5 manages to bring out the background music more clearly. The Exp XX still manages to bring out the background music but not as properly as the A3.5.

The most obvious would be the sound of drums. No, I am not talking about those subwoofer frequencies. Mine is just a bookshelf.
I am talking about the tightness of the drum beat and they just go deeper with the A3.5, driving the SFCD to its potential level.
When I played the Take Dake Asian Root, I can really notice the drum beats are far better than playing with the Exp XX.
Even with Danny Summer's album, I can feel the bass albeit very minimal.
I cant even feel the bass exist with the Exp XX.

When it comes to higher volume, the A3.5 manages to hold itself well and this is what a 150watter should do, in my opinion.
I cannot go loud with Exp XX as it will become noisy.

All in all, I feel satisfied and thankful that my friend loaned me his A3.5 for 24hrs.
This A/B test is not about to find out a winner. There is no need to do so.
And even if I did, this comparison is not a fair one - most obvious, pricewise.
I purposely did this test solely just to find out how well the speakers can sing with a powerful amp and how will it sound in my room with a 150watter.

Cheers!!

[azri]

yeah, its like v8 versus k20a

[car o scope]

While the Exp XX is not quite up to mark with the SFCD, it is very good with my old Epos ES11.

[hifikaki]

Finally got my SF setup and running

SF Cremona
Marantz SA11s1
Audia Flight One intergrated
JPS power cord
Purist XLR
AFA speaker cable(will be replaced later)

[kkthen]

hifikaki, your setup is very nice. Thanks for sharing

[car o scope]

The Cremona is also being used as home theater setup?
Can see a Marantz receiver and a subwoofer too.

[Johan]

Yes this is a nice setup hifikaki. I am having the SF Grand Piano Domus speaker. I wonder how much better, in what aspect, the Cremona speaker sound compared to mine. Did you compare them before buying, unfortunately I didn't due to my budget at that time.
Looking at your setup, your left speaker looks like quite close to the side wall. Don't you hear some rumble or boom at low frequencies from this speaker? According to CMY in BB plaza, every box in the house is a passive sub-woofer including our fridge. They recommend their 'resonator' to solve this problem. You may give a try though. Their system with resonators in the BB Plaza shop really sound great. I believe the room acoustic issue is really significant and not to be overlooked.
I may upgrade my speaker to Cremona M but first would like to hear user comment.

[azri]

suddenly everything boxxy is an enemy to SQ hahaha

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