Re: Sonus Faber - discussion thread

[mugenfoo]

musica with grand piano is ok ok only. but still i prefer it more than krell + GP.
it's my personal preference though.

Wow ! Look who decided to come to hifi4sale.net !

Welcome welcome ! ... heh heh heh heh heh heh.....

[mugenfoo]

also, i found a Krell 400xi second hand going for RM8500....
is this price ok? unit is roughly 3 years old
black colour

Thats NUTS.

A brand new ex-stock 400xi would sell for around RM9K+ only, local Malaysia street price with full warranty from Mr. NormanAudio, the local authorised Krell distributor . Any seller who hopes to sell a s/hand unit for RM8.5K is either a total moron, or is hoping to catch a super sucker waterfish.

I mean, Krells are great, but don't get suckered into paying ridiculous prices for it, or for any other brand or equipment for that matter.

[jazzy939]

You would not believe how some people would pay for ridiculously priced items.. These are the suckers the sellers are banking on to get..
It is great to have forums like this where you can ask around for views/second opinions.. lucky hushymushy asked, but are you willing to pay that much ah, hushymushy?

[car o scope]

Though the initial budget is at a certain level, usually it can be stretched further in the end.

[wabun]

Which Krell ?

KAV-300i..SF can play very nice violin. like it ! although Krell is still not my cup of tea. haha

[wabun]

if spent 8.5K on used Krell, I would hunt for two units of Euphonic Research AMP-80, this Malaysiam Doctor design class A amp can really sing well. If you got a capable source, then take the passive pre ( LDR prefered) if u dun, take an active pre ( Simaudio if you willing to spend ) or JumPan2 if want a bang of buck..

[wabun]

check this out.. http://sites.thestar.com.my/audio/story.asp?file=/2006/1/19/audiofile/19amp80

[eeseang]

Have someone audited the new SF Toy bookshelf? any comments on this as compare to SF Concertino Domus.

Can someone enlighten what's the compatible and best fit valve amp (reasonable price) to pair with SF Concertino Domus?

Thanks.

[mugenfoo]

if spent 8.5K on used Krell, I would hunt for two units of Euphonic Research AMP-80, this Malaysiam Doctor design class A amp can really sing well. If you got a capable source, then take the passive pre ( LDR prefered) if u dun, take an active pre ( Simaudio if you willing to spend ) or JumPan2 if want a bang of buck..

Eh, if u want to advertise your Jumban amp, go do it at the FS forum lah.

[PcWork]

musica with grand piano is ok ok only. but still i prefer it more than krell + GP.
it's my personal preference though.

Wow ! Look who decided to come to hifi4sale.net !

Welcome welcome ! ... heh heh heh heh heh heh.....

bro i was here since hifi4sale.net move from previous website to here. just i remain as submarine only. hahaha

[car o scope]

bro i was here since hifi4sale.net move from previous website to here. just i remain as submarine only. hahaha

Hi-tech submarine..
Can tahan underwater for a very long time.
Still waiting for your announcement of the gathering.

[wabun]

Eh, if u want to advertise your Jumban amp, go do it at the FS forum lah.

aiya if u dare not accept the challenge then habis cerita lah.
u still hide here n there instead of bring ur "Krell" for a "match"
poor Mugenfoo..only good in talking.

[hushymushy]

i think hardware is only 70% sound reproduction
acoustics, placement and other factors contribute to the 30%

same like car hifi
me being in the ICE arena before
i have seen and heard alot of sound system that goes into the regions of 50/60k and still sound shitty because of the tuning and setups

some decent setups in the lower regions or cheaper systems can out perform those more expensive setups.

so i guess its pretty much the same in home hifi

[htkaki]

i might host up a gathering of sonus faber owner. including forumer / non forumer. and place is maybe perfect hifi in wisma MPL.
everything still in discussion. stay in tune.

offer a time for sonus owner to meet up, talk around, discussion, and maybe exchange phone number.

will post in both lyn and here once i confirmed the date and time.

May I join? Any possibility or is there any HT setup with SF by Perfect Hi-Fi? I am itching to have an audition.


Taukeh wabun, don't have to attack in such a manner Peace lah.

Remind me of an arguement between my friends. One is a die-hard beemer fan and the other is Benz fanboy. As long as you are happy with your setup, why bother?

One man's meat is another man's poison.

Cheers

[mugenfoo]

Eh, if u want to advertise your Jumban amp, go do it at the FS forum lah.

aiya if u dare not accept the challenge then habis cerita lah.
u still hide here n there instead of bring ur "Krell" for a "match"
poor Mugenfoo..only good in talking.

what to do ... learn from Wabun the dinosaurmaster also mah.

Dont worry. next round at HWL, sure will have a Krell waiting to go HEAD-2-HEAD with your Jamban preamp.

If u so smart making Jamban preamps, why still wasting time here?? Go and make yourself famous and send one unit to Stereophile for review lah. Who knows, they may give u Class-A rating. Then everyone (incl myself) sure will tabik you one. This is very possible, if u know this brand called Promitheus Audio. Malaysian made, managed to get ranking by Stereophile.

Otherwise, mr. Jamban creator and his jamban amp + any speaker, will only get the sound that a jamban will usually contain. Very strong smell for sure. But poor mr.dinosaur, have to advertise kaau-kaau in h4s forum only.

[mugenfoo]

Taukeh wabun, don't have to attack in such a manner Peace lah.

Remind me of an arguement between my friends. One is a die-hard beemer fan and the other is Benz fanboy. As long as you are happy with your setup, why bother?

One man's meat is another man's poison.

Cheers

Can't you see... actually we are both very much enjoying the sessions. And good entertainment for all other readers as well.

[car o scope]

Ya.. I also heard that Promitheus made it to the Stereophile.

wabun,
From what you wrote, I believe that you are very confident that your pre-amp can take on Krell anytime.
Perhaps, you dont have to waste time challenging people here anymore.
Better focus on getting into Stereophile instead.

[rsbn589]

Eh, if u want to advertise your Jumban amp, go do it at the FS forum lah.

aiya if u dare not accept the challenge then habis cerita lah.
u still hide here n there instead of bring ur "Krell" for a "match"
poor Mugenfoo..only good in talking.

Wabun, pls don't feel sad. IMO, Pre should meet pre. A humble vintage tube pre is willing to date with your JumPan pre if you don't mind. Just make about 30 minutes drive. It could be an interesting and fun event instead.

[hushymushy]

no offense but i think the local made amps is also not worth the price

the star audiophile don't really ketuk any products

let's take a look at the caps in the amp...panasonic caps...ok yes they r better than pasar road quality...
At least pun letak blackgates or mundorf..basic also M Caps ler
higher end can put M Supreme Silver/Gold....

i'm not saying malaysian can't do it....but it takes more than just one local newspaper review...
i dont mind listening to it.....but i doubt it would be any better than my current amp

[wabun]

Haha..when got chance, just listen to it loh. The design that matters, parts play a part but the secret is how the designer use component to tailor the sound, else everybody also can build
highend amp oredi, just copied a design from internet and buy the best money can buy component to build it.. is that simple?
dun be childish lah..it won't works that way..

Hi rsbn589 , sure will visit ur fren lah, let me complate the order 1st. I like get know more frens also..

Hi HTkaki , aiya, no pinpoint leh, no offence.I also won't take it seriously. Mugenfoo said use his Krell entry level integrated preamp for A-B test with my JumPan2 mah, so I welcome him loh.Just a friendly match, no big deal.

Stereophile ? Maybe, who knows.

Malaysian Design Sucks ? Listen 1st lah fren. Dun judge a book by it's cover. listen to more setup and listen the JumPan2. after that
only ask urself, is it worthe the 1 grand spent.. no big deal no obligation.

[hazy]

Hello , frd all came be audiophlies .
Dont be gaduh gaduh lah bro

cool down.
whatever u have enjoys yourself sudah lah .

This SF forum . better talking about SF lah . what that krelllah , jambanlah ..

Go to the points..

[hushymushy]

Haha..when got chance, just listen to it loh. The design that matters, parts play a part but the secret is how the designer use component to tailor the sound, else everybody also can build
highend amp oredi, just copied a design from internet and buy the best money can buy component to build it.. is that simple?
dun be childish lah..it won't works that way..

Hi rsbn589 , sure will visit ur fren lah, let me complate the order 1st. I like get know more frens also..

Hi HTkaki , aiya, no pinpoint leh, no offence.I also won't take it seriously. Mugenfoo said use his Krell entry level integrated preamp for A-B test with my JumPan2 mah, so I welcome him loh.Just a friendly match, no big deal.

Stereophile ? Maybe, who knows.

Malaysian Design Sucks ? Listen 1st lah fren. Dun judge a book by it's cover. listen to more setup and listen the JumPan2. after that
only ask urself, is it worthe the 1 grand spent.. no big deal no obligation.

i'm not saying malaysian made products are no good....
one thing for sure, quality of an item is gauged by it's price positioning in the market

expensive components do not entirely determine the quality output, but dont we have to admit that quality components contribute to the sound quality?

why is sonus faber speakers expensive?

my wife burns cash by buying designer handbags....but u know what...when i look at the quality and material.....

but anyway....enough of arguing.....
you can call me stupid or idiot.....
at the end of the day....i have a budget to spend....i maximise my budget with the best amp i can find
not opting for anything lower or cost saving

[Aki1980]

I'm thinking to get a Sonus Faber paired with my 50watts tube amp but most people will use the SS amp to drive their Sonus Faber, never heard people use tube amp with Sonus Faber.

Does it really sounds that bad with tube amp ?

[bimmerman]

No it does not and will not sound bad with tubes but firstly you need to tell us which Sonus Faber you're planning to pair with which tube amp.

[WongKN]

Yup. If you are planning for models like Amator or (gasps !) Extrema, then you will 'die'. Some models of Sonus Faber can melt a Krell. But most of their models are not that tough to handle and 50watts of tube is quite OK. But you also need to tell us the brand and model of the tube amp you are using.

[Aki1980]

I'm using an integrated amp Papworth TVA 10, it has 4 EL34 and its rare in Asia.

Thinking to match it with Sonus Faber Concertino Domus.

[ongaaron]

I owned one 2 years ago and have to admit it sounds better with ss amp. Initially paired with Audio Research CA50 mmmm.....no comments....then with Densen DM10....Excellent. If want to use tube amp it is advisable to use EL34 amp because it has alot more juice then other tubes....also cheaper cost. If properly matched it is wonderful in small room but you must use their original stands. RM2000 new. 40% inprovement. Remember my abovementioned advice.....SMALL ROOM.

[Aki1980]

How small is your small room ? My music room is 20 X 10= 200 square feet, is this consider small or medium ?

[ongaaron]

200 sq ft is consider small. Suitable for bookshelf sonus. Discontinued model. Advice you buy speakers/stands package. It is virtually inpossible to buy stands by itself later.

[Aki1980]

So in conclusion Sonus Faber sounds more better with SS amp?

[ongaaron]

In my personal opinion sonus speakers are tuned to suit ss amp.

[bimmerman]

I read somewhere that the designers of Sonus Faber voices their speakers using Krell amplification at the factory. Surprisingly not using the Sonus Faber Musica. And again I read somewhere else that somewhere in a music museum, an Electrocompaniet SS amp powers a pair of Sonus Faber Stradivari homage.

I currently power my pair of Minima Amators with a Krell KAV300i and I must say I like it plenty. For a bit of warmth I use a Cary Audio CD300 valve CD player. Very very transparent sounding with a huuuuuuge soundstage extending beyond the side and rear walls with excellent holographic effect. Every instrument is placed clearly in it's own space with my eyes closed.

Now, having said all that what I truely miss is the time when I drove the Minima Amators with a pair of Cary SLM70 valve monoblocks. These were EL34 X 4 tubes per monoblock providing 70Watts of valve power per channel. Preamp was an Audionote M1 with vintage Mullards. How was it? Sweet! Sweeter than my current Krell can ever be! Voices were larger than life, sweeter than honey and take on a kind of smooth and grain free quality. And when the violins kick in, I died and went to heaven!! Complains? Yes, there were a few. Bass could be tighter, faster. The cost of retubing 8 power valves not to mention the driver valves, rectifier valves and that electric bill!!!

Given a choice between my current Krell setup and my previous Cary monoblocks I could toss a coin and be happy with either. With the Krell, it's fuss free, power up and everything sounds best in less than 10 minutes. Kinder on the electricity bill. With the Cary monoblocks, you don't get to hear stuff like that very much these days and yes, it's coloured, yes, real life music don't sound like that but what it did was to transform the music into something very very special which I still miss today.

By the way, it may surprise you that my Cary CD, Cary Monoblocks, Audionote Pre, Minima Amators, all came from Akai Chin in Centrepoint Sabah. Have you visited his new shop at Lintas?

[bimmerman]

I'd like to add that there was a time last year, when I missed my EL34 so much that I considered a Prima Luna Dialogue One valve integrated. Was just a thought though. Never did happen.

[mugenfoo]

Yup. If you are planning for models like Amator or (gasps !) Extrema, then you will 'die'. Some models of Sonus Faber can melt a Krell. But most of their models are not that tough to handle and 50watts of tube is quite OK. But you also need to tell us the brand and model of the tube amp you are using.

post-Franco era of Sonuses are no longer power hogs unlike the Extrema Era.

Speakers like the SFCD and Toy are much more amp-friendly compared to say, an Amator from the mid 90s.

Even when driving my old pair of Concertos with the volume cranked up, the KAV-300i will get very warm but not to the point of being scalding hot. But recently driving a pair of SFCDs, the KAV-300i hardly broke a sweat.

If the KAV was driving anything larger like a pair of some A***** speaker .... then it really gets cooking! OK, back to Sonus Fabers...

[- br@d -]

Aki,

Running my Cremona Auditors with a tubey 6550 30W (triode) /60W (UL). Using an SS Primare amp previously.

Have auditioned amps under 10K from the likes from Audio Research, Copland, Primaluna, Krell, Triode, a second hand Graaf from Adrian's shop.

My 2 cents is that tube amp's overwhelming sonic characteristic has a very special clarity and purity of presentation. SS amp if not paired correcty can, in my experience, sound analytical and hard. But I found myself enthralled by the tube amps openness and lack of grain or mechanical artifact. It was easy to feel "close" to the music in that special way I've so far experienced.

IMHO, take your time in auditioning SS and Tube amps specially when you are planning to fork out alot of money for it.

[Aki1980]

Bimmerman, Yeah i know Akai Chin in KK and been to his new shop in lintas.

How do you know him ?

[jteoh]

Long time ago I had a pair of Extremas and had them paired with 3 different Krell power amps. But that was a long time ago..

Now I am using a modest Cayin A55T with 6550s to drive my Cremonas.
Something's lost and something's gained.

Whatever gets you throught the night, it's alright, it's alright! - John Lennon

[bimmerman]

Bimmerman, Yeah i know Akai Chin in KK and been to his new shop in lintas.

How do you know him ?

I've known Akai for a very long time. Known him since my schooling days when he was still working at ocean electronics. I lived in KK for most of my life since 1974.

[Aki1980]

what speaker is good match with tube amplifier ?

[bimmerman]

if you ask me i'd say the Concertino Domus should be quite good with EL34. You can consider Primaluna dialogue 1 or the cheaper prologue 1 or the Jadis Orchestra or maybe even the class A Synthesis Flame. All around the same price. But you'll need to spend a fair bit extra on silver interconnects and at least silver coated speaker cables. The fairly affordable DH Labs silver sonic speaker cables are quite ok.

[Aki1980]

I got a Papworth TVA 10 tube amp rated 50watts with four EL34.

I don know which speaker to choose either the Sonus Faber Concertino Domus or Celestion Kingston.

[azri]

encik bimmer, whats with silver ic & speaker cables on tube + sf setup?

[bimmerman]

encik bimmer, whats with silver ic & speaker cables on tube + sf setup?

Well Azri, what do you associate with tube sound? Rolled off highs, sweet midrange, warm sounding but slow and fat bass. Overall the presentation might also come across as warm, fat and slow but oh so sweet. Correct? Well, not all tube amps sound this way but most EL34 setups i've heard certainly have this trait.

So, what do we know about silver? It's quick, it's lean and it's just the ticket for trimming down that fat lazy bass and add some speed and zing to that rolled off highs. and usually the sweetness remains intact.

and that my friend is what silver can do for EL34.

[mugenfoo]

no wonder u got so many KCAGs ......

[bimmerman]

Ya lor Mugen, source to pre 1 pair, pre to monoblock another pair. 1.5M KCAG somemore. Finally happy with integrated. But if can experiment with a Tube preamp and big fat NAD power amp or Audiolab monoblocks, might be interesting too.

[bimmerman]

I got a Papworth TVA 10 tube amp rated 50watts with four EL34.

I don know which speaker to choose either the Sonus Faber Concertino Domus or Celestion Kingston.

I have not heard the Papworth TVA10 but 50Watts for four EL34 is plenty powerful. Probably can drive the Minima Amator even. For me I tend to choose good looking speakers but in this case the Celestion Kingston is very nice to look at. But sensitivity wise it's 84db while the Concertino Domus is 88db and probably easier to drive. I say you should test both speakers with your amp and see which one you prefer. Don't forget the silver!

[wataru]

I saw someone selling Domus now, teak wood vers. Im interested to get one.
Is there and sound/signature different between teak wood and piano finish?

[car o scope]

I believe it is the difference in appearance only.
If there is a chance to get the original stands, I suggest you to grab them as well.

[hughesths]

I saw someone selling Domus now, teak wood vers. Im interested to get one.
Is there and sound/signature different between teak wood and piano finish?

Sonus Faber Piano finish will be subtler, more bodied and slightly better timbre.

[mugenfoo]

Ya lor Mugen, source to pre 1 pair, pre to monoblock another pair. 1.5M KCAG somemore. Finally happy with integrated. But if can experiment with a Tube preamp and big fat NAD power amp or Audiolab monoblocks, might be interesting too.

No lar ... for you, maybe some BIG FAT Krell Amp will do the trick !

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