Re: Apogee, Magnepan & MartinLogan speakers - discussion thread

[WongKN]

Sorry for 'fighting' with you for the ribbons bassraptor. I probably had an 'unfair' advantage because I was working through the night just now, from 11:30pm till 9am just now (was knocked out for the whole morning) and as I wasn't really needed till 2:30am, I was surfing the net for 3 hours. Karma as they say. CLH, many thanks. I will PM you again later tonight (need to rush over to my regular poison den for something urgent).

Bassraptor, I have tried my Centaur Minor with a powered sub, just an experiment as the sub is a cheap made-in-china (surprisingly good sound) refugee from my H/T system (after I upgraded to SVS sub, again fantastic sub and value for money). When properly matched, the sub can do wonders for filling up the missing low-end of the Minors, one major weakness of the speaker. It is surprising how much apparent 'weight' is added to the sound just by adding 'reinforcement' to the very low frequencies. It really transformed the sound of the Minors.

If you can make it work, I highly recommend you try it. For my case, I couldn't make it work because I want to power the sub separately from the pre-amp, i.e. not using the sub's built-in crossover, and just using the tuning/setting to match integration. But my ARC SP9-Mk2 do not provide two outputs. The other issue is as the sub is for H/T, it only has mono input. I tried it with one of those generic '2 to 1' type RCA adaptor but the sound then becomes 'mixed mono'.

So you need an 'audio sub', i.e. one with STEREO input. I am still slapping myself for not takong Adrian's 'first refusal' for a used James subwoofer, which has proper stereo input (i.e. the sub itself has internal circuitry to mix the input to a sngle driver).

[bassraptor]

Tks for the input, Wong, I do have a two-channel Epos sub I might mess with. I'm also highly impressed by the paradigm cube subs, but two needed. Adrian speaks highly of the Audio Physics Rhea but out of my price league ... maybe the james sub is a good idea ...

enjoy your new Spyder rack, man ... cheers!

[mugenfoo]

.... today, sometime, somewhere, someone with a pair of Centaur Minors was asking about supplementing them with a SUB. what a coincidence....

WongKN and I were privy to the entire SMS session.




p.s. If the Rhea is too cost prohibitive, the Yara line has a new & improved sub that won't break the bank.

BTW, Apogees go very well with SYMO speaker cables ...
Hmmm ... i wonder who might have a spare pair lying around now?

[bassraptor]

ha ha, so you guys were there ... I've been laid up with a bad flu since wed evening, otherwise wud have been there in the afternoon. yeah, the yara ... let's see ... Symo, eh? Well, Adrian reveals those hidden treasures layer by layer ...

[mugenfoo]

yeah, been a flu bug going all around.

Anyways back to Centaurs. Super fussy on positioning. Esp the older generation like the Centaur Minor/Majors with the sealed enclosures and disjointed ribbon panels. Thats why the later generation Centaurus had the slanted rear cabinet for more forgiving and seamless blending between the woofer cabinet and the ribbons. Hence the name "Slant" series.

One less known trick with the Centaur Minors is to adjust the spike lengths and tweak the speaker's tilt. Once u hit that magical angle, the height would seem tallest and the soundstage would all gel together.

But be prepared to invest alot of time and heavy lifting plus sliding around those speakers. Hope u also got some of those spike cups (8 pcs to be exact) so its easier to slide them around for that 1/4 inch precision positioning and tilt job.

[bassraptor]

i've got some wooden spike cups, bro, and the spikes ... so all set and ready to roll!!

[mugenfoo]

...as soon as u feel well enuff lah. No point breaking out a cold sweat over hi-fi stuff.. right ?

[chang]

hi all i am new here.
interested in maggie 1.7 since reading jonathan valin review. can i setup 1.7 in a 10 x 11 room? thanks.

[mugenfoo]

hi all i am new here.
interested in maggie 1.7 since reading jonathan valin review. can i setup 1.7 in a 10 x 11 room? thanks.

As long as u have ample power to drive the maggies, and are handy with room acoustic tweaks, why not ?

[chang]

room acoustic? i have old sony 120w 4 ohm and denon avr 2807 is it ok?

[chang]

sony taf707es 140w 4ohm or unused denon 2807 as starter. when got funds later exposure 3010s2.

[hifikrazy]

How do the Martin Logan hybrid electrostatic speakers like Vista and Summit compare to Maggies/Apogees?

These similar design supposed to be great too...
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/electrostatic-speakers/model-10

[azri]

is it easy to get parts like the ribbons for apogee minor? is rm3.5k consider a good price for a pair?

[CLH]

i've got some wooden spike cups, bro, and the spikes ... so all set and ready to roll!!

Hi Bassraptor/WongKN, talking about spikes, do you guys have stands for your Centaur Minors? The stands raise the speakers by about 12" thereby reducing the slant angle you need to aim towards listener, and in doing so, it widens the 'front-to-back' sweet spot, imho. The adjustable spikes poke into receptacles on top of the stands which are heavy. I think they are necessary and I use them with my ex-CMs driven by tube 845s (same set up as reviewed in "Enjoy-the-Music"). And yes, I used sub - an old REL cube was enough for me, back in 2005, though modern subs and stereo subs better lah. See old photo and notice the stand under the right speaker.

[bassraptor]

CLH, no, I don't have the stands, but tks for the pics, now I can ask for a pair to be made. Were they metal or MDF in structure? Empty box or filled?

[CLH]

CLH, no, I don't have the stands, but tks for the pics, now I can ask for a pair to be made. Were they metal or MDF in structure? Empty box or filled?

The front is MDF just like the baffle of the speakers itself with a box attached to the back. It feels heavier than only the MDF material alone, probably 15 to 20kg each, guess its filled but with donno what ... my old photos tell a thousand words - showing the CMs off the stands shown front view and rear view - should be clear to figure out. Those were original US made stands.

[WongKN]

ha ha, so you guys were there ... I've been laid up with a bad flu since wed evening, otherwise wud have been there in the afternoon. yeah, the yara ... let's see ... Symo, eh? Well, Adrian reveals those hidden treasures layer by layer ...

Yeah, Adrian tends to do that nowadays and for a good, honest to earth reason. He's semi-retired already, he really doesn't need to push for sales nowadays. Even in his 'active' days he doesn't do hard sell, what more nowadays. So he tends to treat his customers with care and respect. I.e. you splurged on the Minors. For a salaried worker (of course I am not sure how high a newspaper editor is paid lar ), that must have hurt the wallet a bit. So Adrian doesn't push you to get other stuff unless you ask. If you ask, it means you personaly wants it and you can squeeze your walltet for the extra to pay for it. So you ask, then he will tell you.

As they say, big boys toys is always an expensive venture and hi-fi is all the way up there. So if one wants to be perfect, even with a relatively affordable gem like the Centaur Minor, there are a lot of things that can be done. And correspondingly a lot of places to spend money.

For the Centaur Minors, some highly recommended 'ancilliaries' would be :

1. stands specifically made for it Extremely difficult to find.
2. a matching subwoofer
3. for value for money, Symo speaker cables are a very good match for the speakers.
4. a 'strong', doesn't have to be very powerful but must have good driving ability, amp/power-amp.

Make sure you have the spikes on and if possible the spikes must be sitting on cones (again Adrian sells those but he doesn't push).

[WongKN]

CLH,

For a while I was looking for the stands but nobody wanted to sell them separately, only as a set. I was even tempted to buy another pair of CMs which comes with the stands, just to get the stands. But I already have quite a number of Apogee speakers already so I decided against it. Plus I also have the Centaur Majors, only that it is very dfficult to drive compared to the Minors.

The REL would work well with the CMs, again as long as it has stereo input. Alternately if one can get the 2-1 RCA adapter cable to work, then I suppose a mono one might be useable. Subs made for A/V tend to be a bit 'slower' with very powerful bass, great for movies but sometimes cannot match the speed of a hifi speaker, especially a ribbon like Apogee/Maggie. So I always prefer a proper 'made for hifi' subwoofer (I believe your REL is one). James makes very good hifi subs.

The Audio Physics Yara looks to be another potential winner, much more affordable and if it delivers only half of what the Rhea-II can do, then it would be a fantastic sub already.

[bassraptor]

Wong: Yes, I know all about Adrian, we go back a long, long way. And no, where I work, the salary ain't much to write home about ... ... but I've survived by the skin of my teeth and sharp wit ... ... All I can hope for is to have fun in life, retire to do what I really want to and die debtless and famous, even if not rich!

yes, those stands, maybe i'll get them made? I'll hold back on the sub first, till I can gather the resources. adrian says he doesn't bring in the james subs now, a pity ... i do have the spikes and cups, too. do they work better with metal or wood cups?

as for amp, the Khartago does the job wonderfully. I feel blessed that Adrian let me buy a unit, when he could have sold it to anyone else! ... i was thinking of the stratos later on but he looked at me sternly and said, no, the khartago SE is all you'll need!

[drife]

[bassraptor]

Ha, ha, drife ... I outgrew that excitement years ago. 20 years is a long time to be doing this stuff ... can you imagine, i'm getting a bigger thrill out of an old, cheap and beaten-up pair of hybrid ribbon speakers than a RM25k CD player. Damn, even my new downloading adventures give me a nicer fix than attending a hi-fi show. Yeah, maybe jaded is the word I seek ...

One day, it'll be time to give up writing about hifi in the paper, and I can move on to bigger and more real literary ventures, as I'm doing in my fortnighly Friday column these days:

Those interested in reading my musings:
http://thestar.com.my/columnists/more.asp?col=nottoday

The plan is to compile a book of this next year. I'll be expecting you guys to buy a copy each ....

[drife]

[bassraptor]

BTW, Astro communications people called me to apologise over hassles I had with installing B.yond ... and left a number for future probs. Anyway, I'm doing a long-term assessment of B.yond (just for fun and to scare them further), so any feedback from users will be appreciated.

Actually, that's a good idea ... buy my book, free entry to Maggies and Centaurs' listening room ... ha ha .... tks for the suggestion, bro.

[drife]

[drife]

[WongKN]

Bassraptor, hmmm... you do go back quite a long time with Adrian. I think we are comparable. I was one of his first customers, way way back over 20 years ago.

I can understand how you feel, when I was younger I too was dreaming of becoming an audio reviewer. Later though I ventured out to another field. Now everything is a bit jaded and I just want to enjoy music (and driving).

IMHO, there are a lot of great advances being made today and the best of the latest equipments, based on experience, are very very good indeed. On the other hand, there are countless equipments which the manufacturers either folded or 'don't make them like the used to', which can easily challenge any of the newest and latest equipments as well. I have listened to countless high-end equipments, so many that I have lost count, and my personal opinions still stands. One of those 'not made anymore' speakers is Apogee speakers, the whole range was excellent at their time and when set-up properly in a properly matched system, they can easily challenge the best of today's latest speakers as well. I only wish I had the fortune to experience the Apogee Grand or 'The Apogee', the two models which I have not listened to before (everything else I have listened to, including the Studio Grand and Diva).

About your questions, the speakers should rest of their supplied spikes (or equivalent replacements if they are lost). I have never heard them resting on wooden 'cups', all the time either directly on a parque floor or on aluminium 'cups'. Adrian has some very good locally made 'cups' if you don't mind brandless/nameless accessoreis. Otherwise KLAVS is this weekend and I am quite sure you can use your 'status' to get a good deal on some well-known branded 'cups'. But I feel you really need to try out the wooden ones first.

At one time, I was toying with the idea of locally making the CM stands as well. The Slant-6 is pretty much an updated Centaur Minor, incorporating changes to address two of the CM"s weakest areas : image height, and bass extension. The slant-6 is actually a much taller speaker than the CM, in fact I think roughly as high as CM on its dedicated stand.

Since CLH has already given its dimensions, I think a very good initial trial is if you can find a solid wooden box or block of wood, big enough to place the CMs on top and of roughly the same height. Then you can roughly hear how much difference the stands would make, as theoreticlaly it changes only the speaker's height. If you like what you hear, then you can get a carpenter to use MDF boards
(which the stands would be made out of) to fabriate a copy of it. I suppose you need to fill it with something; lead bars or something heavy as the original stands are quite heavy (confirmed by CLH).

The problem is really that no-one will be willing to part with CM + stands separately so you have to buy the whole set or don't buy. And CM with stands, so far I remember appeared only once or twice here in our forum (same frequency was Centaur Major). So the chances of getting just the stands alone is going to be very tough. OTOH, perhaps you can check with the Australian reseller as they claims to be able to make any Apogee model. Maybe they have ready made stands for sale. They are pricey though.

I think you should just ignore Adrian's advice and go for the Stratos once your wallet permits. Sometimes Adrian just doesn't want his friends to spend money in a way he thinks is unnecessary but I have heard the Centaur Minor being driven by Mark Levinson No. 23.5, after the owner have tried it with various power amps from old Exposure, Aragon 4004, Audible Illusions, Krell KST, etc, plus of course I drive my CM with Audio Rsesearch CL60 and I can tell you the speakers really benefits from a power amp with good current reserve and driving ability. You can be shocked at how much the bass will improve with a 'stronger' power amp.

[bassraptor]

Wong: Tks for all the pointers on the CM, will take note. I don't know if I will have the patience to go through the whole thing! I get distracted easily!

My prob is I need to learn to stop somewhere. If I had learnt this 15 years ago, I could have been driving an Audi today, rather than an Audi-wannabe ...

Our lives should be greater than our work and/or our passions. Once we're ruled by these, then we are bound by demands. Nothing is ever enough.

Lord Buddha made a relevant point about achieving Nirvana ... we audiophiles just misinterpreted it!

[WongKN]

Hey bassraptor. Some new 'poison' for you.

I used a roundabout way to get my cheapo made-in-china sub to work with my ARC/CM system. As I explained, the little sub though of no-pedigree and with no pretentions actually can deliver surprisingly OK sound. Not James or Audio Physics level but still qutie acceptable. Anyway, the little sub brought totally new dimension to the sound from the system. The filling up of the low bass really improved the overall sound balance and somehow contributed to better 'ambience'. And with a more solid bass line, music now actually flows better and is a lot more enjoyable.

So given this experience, I would highly recommend you try out a sub with that Apogee of yours.

[bassraptor]

Wong: haha, real poison ... Adrian has offered to pass me the Yara sub as well...

what's the preferred single sub connections? My Odyssey pre has only a single set outs but Adrian says it is ready to be modified for an extra set of outs. Or should I just split the signal from my power amp's speaker output?

[WongKN]

Sujesh,

I'd much prefer to use the RCA/line connections. So, my personal preference if I am in your position, I would just modify the pre to get that 2nd set of output.

An explanation of my 'set-up'. My initial problem was that a standard AV sub has mono input only. My ARC SP9-2 when I bought it, was already modified for two sets of pre-out (via a simple shorting wire soldered internally). So to make my AV sub work, initially I had to use one of those converter jacks, which physically connects the left and right channel signals into 1 single output jack. With my ARC SP9 Mk2, this causes a problem because the minimalist design of the SP9-2 somehow caused the signals to be 'mixed' inside the preamp as well. So if I hook it up this way, the sound becomes 'mixed mono' overall, i.e. both left and right channel gets mixed into mono sound.

Now, I happen to have a couple of spare power amps plus an Arcam pre lying around. So what I did was to connect the 2nd outputs from the ARC SP9-2 to the Arcam pre in stereo mode. Then from the pre-out of the Arcam preamp, I used the converter cable to create a mono signal into the A/V sub. Because of the isolation provided by the Arcam pre, the main system stays stereo. And the Arcam pre mixes the stereo signal to become mono for input into the sub.

I then set the A/V sub accordingly (i.e.l the cross-over frequency). So in a way, I am using the A/V sub to beef up the weak-ish low-end of the Centaur Minors. But I do not corrupt the sound by putting a crossover into the main SP9-CL60 circuit so the main sound is left 'pure'. By going into an extra pre (the Arcam pre), the bass sound is obviously a bit degraded. But I use a crossover frequency of between 70 to 80Hz and other than a slightly slow bass, the sound is quite nice overall. It really makes the Centaur Minor sound like a full range speaker. And by being prudent (avoiding the common greediness whenever we have a subwoofer - i.e. turn up the volume, turn up the crossover frequency in an effort to get 'big bass'), the integration to my ears at least is pretty good. The A/V sub really manages to blend in without any obvious artifiacts and quite seamlessly.

If you get the Yara sub, which is a much higher quality sub, I am sure the sound would be incredible. Also the Yara sub actually has STEREO input not mono so you won't have the problems I have.

So.... what are you waiting for ? Go for it man !!

My next 'experiment' is to see if I can get something to lift up the Minors. I am not totally happy with the image heights. Singers are all slightly short . I have given up hope of finding the original Apogee base 'stands'. But using CLH's listed dimensions, I am thinking of just initially using something of the same height (never mind the length and width) to lift up the Minors and to see if the image height can be improved. If I like the result, I will try to get a carpenter to make me a rectangular base of similar dimension to the footprint of the Minor and at the correct height, fill it up with something (maybe sand ?) and then use them as substitue stands. Right now, I have the Minors already tilted backwards a lot but still not completely happy with the image height. Do you have such an issue ?

[junchoon]

anyone has the MG 1.7? can it be used as a center channel? can the cloth grille be removed?

thanks.
wps

[bal]

hI,
I don't have the 1.7s, but the cloth can be removed. You need to remove the trim by the side of the speakers, then look at the bottom, remove about a million staples (seriously there are a LOT of stales to remove, in two or three layers), and then you can slide the cloth off. Then replace the side trim back. Be careful though, you really don't want to accidentally puncture or damage the mylar film. Sometimes this film is slightly sticky and can attract dust easily.
I have a pair of modest MMG. not able to go back to boxes after listening to maggies. just google Mug and you will find it.
There is a lot of information in a forum called MUG. This stands for 'Magneplaner user group'.
There is even a post that shows you how to 'defrock' a maggie speaker.

Hope this helps!

Bal.

[junchoon]

thanks bal... so can the 1.7 or the mmg be used for center channel? thanks.

wps

hI,
I don't have the 1.7s, but the cloth can be removed. You need to remove the trim by the side of the speakers, then look at the bottom, remove about a million staples (seriously there are a LOT of stales to remove, in two or three layers), and then you can slide the cloth off. Then replace the side trim back. Be careful though, you really don't want to accidentally puncture or damage the mylar film. Sometimes this film is slightly sticky and can attract dust easily.
I have a pair of modest MMG. not able to go back to boxes after listening to maggies. just google Mug and you will find it.
There is a lot of information in a forum called MUG. This stands for 'Magneplaner user group'.
There is even a post that shows you how to 'defrock' a maggie speaker.

Hope this helps!

Bal.

[bal]

Yes, the MMG apparently makes a wonderful center channel (maggies reproduction of the human voice is addictive.. once heard, very very difficult to listen to the human voice coming out of a boxed speaker. It gets the timbre absolutely right.) ...if you can over come certain constraints.

1) It needs space to work well. Put it against the wall and it will sound really bad.

2) it is large size. MMG is already 4 feet tall by 18inches wide. Only an inch deep, but a little challenging to position.

3)Power hungry. Needs a dedicated amp. Members in the MUG regularly speak of supplying it with 400watts of power per channel.

Go to the website, some members have posted pictures of their HT sets using MMG as center channel.

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/

But Magneplaner also produces other models more suited for HT use, that can be placed directly on to the wall(the MMGW, or MMG Wing, and the MMGC,or MMG Center). These make more sense than using the *normal* MMG or 1.7

Regards,
Bal.

[junchoon]

Yes, the MMG apparently makes a wonderful center channel (maggies reproduction of the human voice is addictive.. once heard, very very difficult to listen to the human voice coming out of a boxed speaker. It gets the timbre absolutely right.) ...if you can over come certain constraints.

1) It needs space to work well. Put it against the wall and it will sound really bad.

2) it is large size. MMG is already 4 feet tall by 18inches wide. Only an inch deep, but a little challenging to position.

3)Power hungry. Needs a dedicated amp. Members in the MUG regularly speak of supplying it with 400watts of power per channel.

Go to the website, some members have posted pictures of their HT sets using MMG as center channel.

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/

But Magneplaner also produces other models more suited for HT use, that can be placed directly on to the wall(the MMGW, or MMG Wing, and the MMGC,or MMG Center). These make more sense than using the *normal* MMG or 1.7

Regards,
Bal.

really ahh? i thought i saw the mmg has the tweeter on the side??? let me check the link when i can. i know they have mmgc and mmgw, but i prefer the front three channels to be same model. and i know mg1.6 also has the tweeter on the side as well, so can't use as center channel. mg1.7 not too sure. thanks.

wps

[mugenfoo]

Wong: haha, real poison ... Adrian has offered to pass me the Yara sub as well...

what's the preferred single sub connections? My Odyssey pre has only a single set outs but Adrian says it is ready to be modified for an extra set of outs. Or should I just split the signal from my power amp's speaker output?

"Splitting" the pre-amp's output to feed into both the Power amp and also a Sub's stereo line-level inputs are totally fine. Because the L & R channels are still nicely separated and don't dilute each other.

For any other connections, must be extra careful not to "sum up" or "short" any channel outputs into a single channel feed, be it at line level or speaker level connections. Physically summing the L & R signal leads can lead to nasty oscillations (not to mention very audible corruption of the audio L/R signals) that may burn out the pre-amp's output stage, and is definitely a pure recipe for disaster if done at the power amp's output STAGES.

As mentioned before, if the Sub can accept stereo line level inputs (Yara Sub is exactly this), better to go this path than to tap the signal from the speaker terminals. Speaker level signals are much higher current, and adding any parallel impedances to the load will definitely alter the delicate relation between an amp's power stage and the loudspeaker load. Some sacrifice of Damping factor is sure to happen here.

[junchoon]

1) It needs space to work well. Put it against the wall and it will sound really bad.

2) it is large size. MMG is already 4 feet tall by 18inches wide. Only an inch deep, but a little challenging to position.

3)Power hungry. Needs a dedicated amp. Members in the MUG regularly speak of supplying it with 400watts of power per channel.

Go to the website, some members have posted pictures of their HT sets using MMG as center channel.

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/
Regards,
Bal.

really ahh? i thought i saw the mmg has the tweeter on the side??? let me check the link when i can. i know they have mmgc and mmgw, but i prefer the front three channels to be same model. and i know mg1.6 also has the tweeter on the side as well, so can't use as center channel. mg1.7 not too sure. thanks.

wps

although i did not find photos, there are ample discussions of using mmg as center channel - they placed the mmg horizontally, instead of the usual vertical position. 4ft of center channel??? wow!

wps

[bal]

Go to MUG. Click on 'pics', scroll down to 'Exclusively MMG HT system from Kevin Schaefer' and you will see some pictures of MMG used for HT.

Bal.

[htkaki]

Sujesh,

I then set the A/V sub accordingly (i.e.l the cross-over frequency). So in a way, I am using the A/V sub to beef up the weak-ish low-end of the Centaur Minors. But I do not corrupt the sound by putting a crossover into the main SP9-CL60 circuit so the main sound is left 'pure'. By going into an extra pre (the Arcam pre), the bass sound is obviously a bit degraded. But I use a crossover frequency of between 70 to 80Hz and other than a slightly slow bass, the sound is quite nice overall. It really makes the Centaur Minor sound like a full range speaker. And by being prudent (avoiding the common greediness whenever we have a subwoofer - i.e. turn up the volume, turn up the crossover frequency in an effort to get 'big bass'), the integration to my ears at least is pretty good. The A/V sub really manages to blend in without any obvious artifiacts and quite seamlessly.

My next 'experiment' is to see if I can get something to lift up the Minors. I am not totally happy with the image heights. Singers are all slightly short . I have given up hope of finding the original Apogee base 'stands'. But using CLH's listed dimensions, I am thinking of just initially using something of the same height (never mind the length and width) to lift up the Minors and to see if the image height can be improved. If I like the result, I will try to get a carpenter to make me a rectangular base of similar dimension to the footprint of the Minor and at the correct height, fill it up with something (maybe sand ?) and then use them as substitue stands. Right now, I have the Minors already tilted backwards a lot but still not completely happy with the image height. Do you have such an issue ?

WongKN, I bet you have ditched the experiment for some time

Now, it is the task of him to experiment. A 12" sealed sub with stereo input, low pass and high pass output will be used as experiment soon

[jchong]

My interest in Maggies was piqued recently and I'm glad to have found this read. Lots of interesting info.

In terms of boxless speakers, I've heard a pair of electrostatics long ago (Audiostatic brand) and remember the very transparent sound. Never heard Magnepans though and I'm quite curious about them. Anyway, I did call up Absolute AV and they have a pair of 1.7s on demo. Price now is 10.9k (previously 9.5k), they cited something about Magnepan's new dealer pricing model.

In terms of placement, I gather that Magnepans need quite a lot of room and should be placed well away from the boundary right?

[mugenfoo]

Just a few rules of thumb but there really are not absolutes. Every environment is unique, but here goes anyways:

Place them away from boundary, but not too much. If you get up close and personal with a pair of maggies esp the new 1.7, you might notice that the speaker's rear sounds 'louder" than the front. So the rear wall is definitely needed for "some" reinforcement.

But the biggest mistake in placement of Maggies is that they tend to get placed too far apart from each other.

the 1.7 is happiest with a longish isosceles triangle arrangement, instead of equilateral or a squashed isosceles (to avoid the "hole in the middle aka headphone effect"). Don't worry about losing any soundstage. Even with the speakers closer apart than usual, its super generous in extending the staging sideways and it always gives a very enveloping sound. This is something that is almost impossble for a cone/dome speaker to achieve unless its a pair of top model Wilsons (just for example) with its funky robot looking arrangement and drivers firing towards just about every corner of the room.

Sidewalls present less of a problem since the Maggies radiate very little sideband energy due to its planar nature.

Longitudinal room modes will play a large factor as usual. Maggies sound awesome when set up right, but if you're crapped out of luck (with the usual problems of either problematic boom nodes or a general lack of bass, don't blame the speakers just yet) and your room or listening area so happens to be very planar-unfriendly, then you might need to really look into some room treatment stuff and other acoustical remedies.

Good luck.

[jchong]

Thanks for the valuable insights mugenfoo.

With speakers such as this, where it seems to be more critical of in-room placement, I sure wish it was possible to get a loaner and try it at home. It would be a bummer to purchase it and then find out the room is planar unfriendly.

In particular your comment about being placed too far apart worries me - my room is also a HT room. In order to clear the screen the speakers would be almost 8' apart (edge-to-edge).

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